Israel ends "seize fire" with civilian massacre

[Gerryatrics]

there was no shooting in Palestine until Zionist came there and started with terrorism. I wonder why the Russians fought the Germans in ww2, all they had to do was move away in Sibiria, there is plenty of space there.

So now Israelis are Indians and Nazis? And there was no shooting in Palestine because there was no Palestine, besides, are you forgetting about the Arab Riots of the 1920's or the 1936-1939 Arab Uprising?

[David Bowie]

Do you guys really think that Hamas want peace? If there's peace, and no Jews, there won't be anyone left to blame. Hamas would actually have to make sure that the Palistinian people are well fed, have jobs and a sound living. Especially since the people at the top have money, don't you think that its easier for Hamas to tell the people its Israel's fault, tell its people to go destroy Israel then to actually create an economy, a job market, etc. I mean, If there's no more Israel, and the Palestinian people are still living in poverty, Hamas will be blamed in that case, not the Jews.

[velik_m]

So now Israelis are Indians and Nazis? And there was no shooting in Palestine because there was no Palestine, besides, are you forgetting about the Arab Riots of the 1920's or the 1936-1939 Arab Uprising?

i gave the germany-russia example as a farly recent example of one nation seeking "lebensraum" on the expense of another, who has enough room. history is full of them. if you prefer: why did the Greeks fight the Persians instead of just moving out of Greece? or Texans fight the Mexicans? It's in a nature of man to defend what is his.

I find your willingness to be bullied around surprising and refreshing, however militia guarding the USA-Mexico border from illegal imigrants leads me to belief that not all americans are big pushovers, not careing about who has their land, as you.

[boutons_]

Arafat REFUSED peace with Israelis, because he wantd to rip peace from Israeli hearts. He was the impediment to peace, as well as running a totally Repug-style corrupt regime.

Some thought that after Arafat, negotiated peace would become possible. There's not even peace BETWEEN Palestinians, never mind with Israelis.

[gtownspur]

THis whole argument is completely stupid by folks like VElik and Manny.

For you're info,

Israel has an arab population around 39 percent, have representation in the Knesset,(the Israeli Parliament for all of you know it all dumb s like manny!), and have equal rights for arabs and any other nationality.

The arabs who fled Israel during its first war were blocked out of the state becuase of treason. Arabs who stayed to fight with the israeli's retained their homes and lived peacefully with the israelis.

Israel have shared their nation with arab folk for 58 years. It's these ing pally's that cant keep their guns in their pockets, and have an uncanny knack for instigating usefull idiots like the UN, Europe, allong with idiots on this board against israel.


My advice to you ers is to read a book or check out the encyclopedia before reading any flourescent fliers you get handed at gay rallies, and Iraq war rallies.

[scott]

Back to a previous discussion, it is also worth noting that there are 4 countries who refuse, in one way or another, to be part of the Nuclear Non-Poliferation Treaty (NPT): India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea (who was part of it before they withdrew in 2003).

The NPT states that only the US, UK, China, Russia and France may possess nuclear weapons (as they were the only contries in possession prior to the treaty). But it states any sovereign nation may pursue nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

Those 4 countries are in violation of international law... where is the outcry?

[MannyIsGod]

THis whole argument is completely stupid by folks like VElik and Manny.

For you're info,

Israel has an arab population around 39 percent, have representation in the Knesset,(the Israeli Parliament for all of you know it all dumb s like manny!), and have equal rights for arabs and any other nationality.

The arabs who fled Israel during its first war were blocked out of the state becuase of treason. Arabs who stayed to fight with the israeli's retained their homes and lived peacefully with the israelis.

Israel have shared their nation with arab folk for 58 years. It's these ing pally's that cant keep their guns in their pockets, and have an uncanny knack for instigating usefull idiots like the UN, Europe, allong with idiots on this board against israel.


My advice to you ers is to read a book or check out the encyclopedia before reading any flourescent fliers you get handed at gay rallies, and Iraq war rallies.

Oh now thats ing rich. Even the United States State Dept knows thats not true. Theres a reason the rest of the world is pissed at what Israel does, but the fact is that the evangelical and jewish lobbies in this country are the reason we still support them. AIPAC is one ruthless ing lobby.

But the point remains that support for either side is more trouble than its worth. Let them deal with each other. Its akin to locking 2 kids in a room and letting them work out. If they kill each other at this point, I coudln't care less. My only concern is in the amount of money that America spends on Israel and the American lives that come under fire directly as a result of support for a state that does nothing to repay the support.

Israel can't survive in its curent state without American support. They spend far too much money on security and their armed forces. So instead of being forced to comprimise, they can continue on knowing that they're American financers will foot the bill for keeping their nation afloat. It is complete bull .

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]

Theres a reason the rest of the world is pissed at what Israel does,...

And what is it that Israel does that supposedly pisses off the whole rest of the world? Exist?

Its akin to locking 2 kids in a room and letting them work out. If they kill each other at this point, I coudln't care less.

Except instead of fists they use lethal weapons so it really isn't akin to that at all. And the thought of their mutual annihilation doesn't faze you at all...made any pacts with the devil lately?

[MannyIsGod]

Joch, why in the should I care about two nations who can't learn to coexist? You think that situation is only present in the ancient land of Christians? You don't think that same situation is occuring all over Africa? Or in Sri Lanka? Or in India? Or China? Or in South America? Or even in Europe?

Israel cares nothing about human rights and has armed themselves with nuclear weapons. It sounds a lot like the axis of evil doesn't it? I understand you are not going to ever acknowledge that Israel has a horrible record on human rights violations and that there are legimate beefs the international community has with them. I know you see this as a one side is right situation, but you would figure that at some point you would adopt a less simplistic view of the world.

[Guru of Nothing]

Israel cares nothing about human rights

I did not know that.

[smeagol]

Joch, why in the should I care about two nations who can't learn to coexist? You think that situation is only present in the ancient land of Christians? You don't think that same situation is occuring all over Africa? Or in Sri Lanka? Or in India? Or China? Or in South America? Or even in Europe?.

Huh? Where is S. America do two countries behave like Israel and Palenstine?

[MannyIsGod]

I would say Columbia's Civil War pretty much qualfies as a place where people are continously killing each other.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]

Joch, why in the should I care about two nations who can't learn to coexist? You think that situation is only present in the ancient land of Christians? You don't think that same situation is occuring all over Africa? Or in Sri Lanka? Or in India? Or China? Or in South America? Or even in Europe?

Sorry Manny but I honestly can't figure out the point you were trying to make here...unless it's that you don't care for the Jews, Palenstinians, Africans, Sri Lankan's, Indian's, Chinese and South Americans. Who's left?

Israel cares nothing about human rights and has armed themselves with nuclear weapons.

Another unfounded blanket generalization.

You stated that two nations can't learn to co-exist, could care less if they obliterate each other and mentioned a slew of other Countries and Continents that fall in the same category, yet "Israel" is the one that doesn't care about human rights.
Definite anti-semitic slant whether you admit it or not.

It sounds a lot like the axis of evil doesn't it?

No it doesn't.

I understand you are not going to ever acknowledge that Israel has a horrible record on human rights violations and that there are legimate beefs the international community has with them.

You've brought up their human rights record a few times but I've never been asked how I feel about either point so where does the "understanding" come from?

I know you see this as a one side is right situation, but you would figure that at some point you would adopt a less simplistic view of the world.

You know an awful lot for someone who's engrossed in giving his opinions about what somewhat thinks rather than asking pointed or direct questions that would elicit a personal opinion. Tarot cards or tea leaves?
Another close-minded poster so into his own opinions that he carries both sides of the discussion.

And btw, how does our discussion about a small portion of the Middle East equate to a simplistic view of the whole world?

[MannyIsGod]

My point is simple. 2 grous of people involved in a conflict is no reason for the United States to pick a side and invest so much. No other country involved in such a conflict is the recipient of such aid from the United States. AIPAC does wonders.

When it comes to the human rights violations, what source would you like me to provide? The US State Dept, the UN or countless independet internation agencies? Which one will you actually believe?

As for your simplistic view, that stems from your desire to blame one side when it is very obvious that there is blame to lay at the feet of both parties. And don't sit there and act as though I'm making some huge presumptions here. This is the first time the subject has been debated on this board and peoples opinions aren't exactly top secret material.

[MannyIsGod]

Its amazing to me how quickly the western world is to jump at a construtive disengagement policty torwards Africa, but woudln't think of the same thing for Israel. Amazing.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, and at least you finally were able to admit you were calling me Anti-Semetic. First, let me actually define the word for you.

One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews.

I have nothing against Jews. I have a problem with Israel. Being against Israel's actions and saying they violate human rights isn't an antisemtic view. It is an anti Israeli view if anything.

For the record - because I undoubtly have to clear this up for you even though it should be self evident - I do think that the Palestinians are guilty of such violations themselves. Murder is the bigest violation possible.

I do not wish for either groups to be annihilated, I simply don't care if they do destroy each other at this point. Do not confuse my apathy with a wish for annihilation of Israel.

So yes, if you twist and contort the meaning of antisemtic to something it doesn't mean at all, then I qualify. Nice try bub.

[Extra Stout]

Israel has a modern industralized economy, is a valuable trade partner, and can offer the U.S. training in tactics like close urban warfare.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians can hit themselves in the head with knives.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Israel has a modern industralized economy, is a valuable trade partner, and can offer the U.S. training in tactics like close urban warfare.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians can hit themselves in the head with knives.

I see, so the Palestinians... right?

[Extra Stout]

I see, so the Palestinians... right?

I just explained why the Western world takes sides. Countries talk a good game about morality, but the crux of it is that Israel has $. it's the same reason everybody ignores China's human rights record.

I think I've figured out Israel's strategy:

1) Withdraw from much of the Palestinian territories
2) Unilaterally give Palestine its own state by default
3) Wait for the Palestinians as a state to launch an attack on Israel
4) Slaughter them

[smeagol]

I would say Columbia's Civil War pretty much qualfies as a place where people are continously killing each other.

It's Colombia. Columbia was a space shuttle and is a university in the upper west side of Manhattan.

And no, Colombia's sitiuation has nothing to do with what's going on between Israel and Palestine.

[MannyIsGod]

I know it has nothing to do with the situation. That was never my point. I was drawing a parrellellelelelel.

I misspelled that too, go ahead and agonize over it.

Are there not several rebel factions who are engaged in a civil war which has been very bloody and lasted for decades??? Did my misspelling change any of that?

[xrayzebra]

Manny, didn't shortly after Israel was made a state, some other Arab country come
in a take a bunch of Palestinian territory? I cant be bothered with googling it and
looking up all the stuff, but I am sure they did and nary a word is ever uttered about
it.

The fact I find strange is that Israel was created many years ago, under the
United Nations, which is all knowing. (Oh, I saw the post about "Western"
dominated UN, which doesn't count) and everyone now days cites as the final
word on everything. So why doesn't the folks over there "just get along".
Israel's are from that part of the world to begin with. So what is the big deal.

[Extra Stout]

In 1948, the British mandate of Palestine was par ioned into Israeli and Palestinian states. Immediately thereafter, the Arabs invaded the new state of Israel. The invasion was repelled, and Jordan annexed the West Bank.

[MannyIsGod]

Don't get me wrong, I dont side with the Arab states. I believe the whole situation is a cluster made that way by every party involved. At some point you simply pull your hand out of the hornets nest because you're tired of getting stung. When does that point come?

[xrayzebra]

In 1948, the British mandate of Palestine was par ioned into Israeli and Palestinian states. Immediately thereafter, the Arabs invaded the new state of Israel. The invasion was repelled, and Jordan annexed the West Bank.

And still have this territory, right? How come no one puts any pressure on
them to return the land?



Manny, on some points I agree. Israel will always be supported by the
United States so long as the large Jewish population stays in the US.
Which will be forever, since this their home to. And they are big
contributors to both parties and carry much influence. They also have
great PR people who never let anyone forget what has happened in the
past. And witness what our government has done about transgressions
on our country by the bombing and killing of our personnel on the ship off
the coast of Israel. LBJ called off any help or aid to our own people.
All the spies that have been caught spying for Israel. Nothing has been
done. Whitewashed and played down in all respects.