What would have been rational?
Keeping in mind there was no Israeli presence in Gaza or the West Bank before the kidnappings, I agree with Victor Davis Hanson on this:
They're fed up. Withdrew from the West Bank six years ago. Withdrew from Gaza this year. And, still, the crazy bas s keep killing Israelis. Enough is Enough.
Whatever civilized nations typically do when two soldiers are taken hostage. I'm not sure what's protocol for those situations, but I'm pretty sure it's somewhere below bombing the roads and airports of a neighbor country.
I guess you forget they came from that "neighbor country," invaded Israel, and killed eight soldiers in order to kidnap those two. Oh, and without any apparent provocation by Israel. I'd classify that as an act of war.
Blockading Lebanon, bombing the aiports, and roads will keep Hezbullah from receiving aid from Syria -- their sugar daddy. It will also prevent them from fleeing to Syria with the kidnapped soldiers.
As an added bonus, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard appears to be trapped in Lebanon at the moment.
I'm listening to Michael Medved and he is talking with a Professor from the University of Wisconsin. The professor is a Muslim and he is certifiable!
He sincerely believes that 9/11 was orchestrated by Karl Rove, that the bombings in Australia were done by CIA operatives and that Al-Queda is just a front for the CIA!
He calls our soldiers "Christian terrorists" who hype themselves up on christian heavy metal music before they go and slaughter innocents.
Hey NBAdan, is he a friend of yours?
This guy is a perfect example of why we cannot reason with Islamofacists - they are nuts!!!
We have to support Israel. They are surrounded by gov. and factions that would like to exterminate them. Is that something americans could live with? (skinheads aside). Israel has made consessions of late, and it has gotten them nowhere. Syria wants them to free the lebonese and palestinian prisoners (thousands) in exchange for 2. Hamas has 1 captive.
What Syria refuses to admit (in my opinion) is freed prisoners from Israel would just return with bombs strapped around their bellys.
Israel would be foolish to entertain the offer.
Who said anything about entertaining the offer?
I'm not against the use of force in this situation, but something on a lesser scale. I don't see this as an act of all-out war, particularly one that could have global ramifications.
I believe the U.S. can support Israel without condoning their every action/retalliation.
I didn't say "you said entertain the offer". Syria is trying make this appear to be a legitimate chip to throw down in the big game.
I'm guessing, however, that I would tire of suicide bombers at some point.
Is bush suppose to demand that Israel back off? I don't think so. He's really in a tough spot this time.
From a military point of view it was very successful. The losses on US side are low, certainly much lower than those on iraq side. A thousand dead soldiers for taking over a country with several million people is a well managed war.
Of course other aspects of takeover didn't go as well.
There's a reason why Israel is surrounded with enemys. North Korea doesn't have many friends either, does the US have to support them too?
I think we could have very reasonably voted along with (or abstained from) the UN resolution.Is bush suppose to demand that Israel back off? I don't think so. He's really in a tough spot this time.
To be the only nation to vote against a resolution calling for a peaceful end to this dispute simply reinforces our reputation as Israel's bed buddy, fair or not.
That requires all sides to be rational. Unfortunately, none of the sides are.
When that's the case, it might be more prudent for a rational nation not to take sides.
We are their buddy, like it or not. Thanks to bush, were running out of friends. Remember all the repug hate for france just because they refused to join us on our foolish adventure to Iraq. Well, france took alot of heat for their stance on Iraq. Man were they right. Much of the world was afraid to distance themselves from the US. Those days are over. When the security council votes against Israel, it's also a vote against us.
Regarding Israel - the Bible says "I will bless them that bless you (Israel) and curse them that curse you."
America is on the right side!
Not surprisingly the battle is escalating. Here are some excerpts from the article.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/14/D8IRVU8G0.html
Hezbollah's Sheik Hassan Nasrallah and his family were safe after the Israeli missiles demolished the two buildings in Beirut's crowded southern neighborhoods, the militant group said.
"You wanted an open war and we are ready for an open war," Nasrallah said, addressing Israelis in an audiotape played on Hezbollah's Al- Manar television. The speech apparently was prerecorded and did not refer to the missile attack.
Warplanes again smashed runways at Beirut's airport with hours of airstrikes, trying to render it unusable, and destroyed mountain bridges on the main highway to Syria. Warships blockaded Lebanon's ports for a second day.
In response, Lebanese guerrillas fired at least 50 Katyusha rockets throughout the day, hitting more than a dozen communities across northern Israel.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Israel against extending its assault into Syria and said the Jewish state couldn't harm Iran, which also backs Hezbollah.
French President Jacques Chirac said Israel's actions were "totally disproportionate" but also condemned Hezbollah's attacks. He implicitly suggested that Syria and Iran might be playing a role in the crisis.
Israeli officials said the campaign by the air force was the biggest since the Israeli invasion in 1982. The only comparable military action since then was the "Grapes of Wrath" offensive in 1996, also sparked by Hezbollah attacks
The Israeli offensive was causing political waves in Lebanon, with some anti-Syrian politicians accusing Hezbollah of dragging the country into a costly confrontation with Israel.
Did you expect them to capitulate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jochhejaam: Not surprisingly the battle is escalating. Here are some excerpts from the article.
Is that a serious question?!?
I guess if Israel suckered Hezbollah into kidnapping for the express reason of having a reason to start a confrontation, then you'd have a point that we should condemn israel.
But Manny, let me ask you a question.
What do you do if the people you are trying to negotioate with keep launching missiles after every concession you make, kidnap your soldiers and demand you release 100 palestinian terrorist for their release,...
Would you just go on with what's been ing you all along, or do you say enough is enough?
Did you read the resolution?
Here's Ambassador Bolton's statement:
That's why we vetoed the resolution.
There was a point when returning the kidnapped soldiers would have ended the violence.
I agree, that point has long since passed. I think Israel means to dislodge and wipe out Hamas and Hezbullah. I also think Iran and Syria intend to stand on the sidelines and let it happen.
I'm not suprised your lack of reading comprehension once agian shows its head. Thats the problem with talking about this situation with any of you. You're so focused in on what you consider a right/wrong situation that you can't for one second take a step back and look at the situation in a different light and maybe see that what all of the talking heads and pundits keep regurgitating is ing re ed. You're so locked in on what you expect to read you don't bother to read what is actually being said.
No where have I condemed Israel for acting out against Hezbollah. They have a right to defend their citizens. But they're actions are ing idiotic. If they want to rid themselves of the group, then attack the group do not attack the people of Lebanon. Is Hezbollah any weaker today after days and days of bombing? No. Are there people in Lebanon now who will be less sympathetic to the Israeli situation in the future? yes. There are also people that are pissed at Hezbollah, but for the most part those are the exact same people that were pissed off at them last week.
If Israel really wants to stop this problem, they'd go after Syria. But the fact is they're too scared of the consequences of an attack on Syria. So instead they take a half ass measure of attacking Lebanon.
They shut down the airport to stop the soldiers from being taken to Iran? Did they forget that the entire eastern border of Lebanon is open to Syria? Does anyone with half a brain really think that if Hezbollah wants to get those soldiers to Iran the bombing of a bridge on a highway or the airport is going to stop them? It is such a crock of it amazes me people even try to sell it.
And lets not act as though there is a state of peace in the region and these groups broke it with their acts. They all consider themselves to be in a constant state of war. And war involves acts like this. If Hezbollah wants to attack the Iraeli Army over a border dispute, thats not terrorism. Thats ing war. I don't understand what you guys expect from people who are obviously pretty damn pissed off at the current situation. They're not going to roll over and give into Israels demands and no amount of rockets from a ing helicopter is going to change that.
In Mannyland, this was somehow started by Israel.
I have to agree with the above statement. What we should do I really
don't know. Maybe stay on the sideline and support Israel in the diplomatic
realm. Like the veto we exercised.
I heard someone say something that I too wondered about, in the news.
How come the security council could come up with a resolution in such
a short time on Israel, but cant on N. Korea or Iran after months and
months.
We, the world, is bordering on a conflict that will have major repercussions
for years to come. It could draw many players into something that they
now attempt to avoid. Israel, obviously, has had it up to their eyebrows.
The did make some major concessions with political consequences within
their own country. They left much in-fracture, homes and otherwise, for
the Palestinians. And they shoved Israel's face in the dirt. Would we
take that kind of action from someone sworn to destroy us?
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