Are Mavs as solid as Spurs? Don't count on it...

[Mavs_man_41]

Yeah I bet that hurt much more then 2 ing sprained ankles Duncan had to endure all playoffs a year ago . Plus if that injury was so damn serious, why the did the doctors clear him to play for game 6?

The doctors never cleared him to play game 6. If you keep insisting this is true then show proof.

[Mavs_man_41]

Ok shaggy, Dirk is just a pussy he was too scared to play.

[Mavs_man_41]

Do you realize how rediculous that sounds? If he was really cleared to play and refused im pretty sure we all would have heard about it. he would never be able to live that down im sure they would still talk about it today.

[shaggy17]

The doctors never cleared him to play game 6. If you keep insisting this is true then show proof.

Nelly said it himself so I guess the coach at the time was lying to the media about Dirks status! .The fact that I have to show proof on something that you should already know about on something like this shows you dont remember this or werent a mavs fan at the time. Only proof I could have on this was espn nba tonite after game 6 of the 03 WCF when Fred Carter and Trey Wingo talked about how Nelly was telling the press that the doctors cleared him to play but that he didnt feel confident in going out their. Fred talked about it for a few minutes . However that is on a dvd that I have

[shaggy17]

Ok shaggy, Dirk is just a pussy he was too scared to play.

The truth hurts but glad you realize it now!

[Man In Black]

I guess you didn't hear about it?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...ory?id=1560353

True enough. It's mostly about Nowitzki, and whether the German will indeed play after nearly a week to recuperate. Cleared by team doctors, Nowitzki still feels trepidation as he attempts to recover from the first knee injury of his career. One of Nowitzki's favorite warm-up routines -- exaggerated knee bends while practicing his jumper -- is still causing pain. Which raises the possibility Nowitzki would sit out one more game and pray for a deciding seventh, even though he says his lateral movement is fine.

[shaggy17]

Props to Men in black for being good at finding like this! I guess I am not spewing bs after all Mavsman!

[Mavs_man_41]

Im hesitant to believe anything shaggy says, as he also says that Dirk Nowitzki is not a superstar. But, fair enough, i guess youre right that he was cleared to play. But untill you have had an injury like that you have no room to talk. I have hyperextended my knee so bad that i wasnt physically able to put any weight on it. Because believe me i tried to get back up and play and it just felt weak and gave out.

[Man In Black]

Turth hurts. At the same time, people used to say that DaveRob's back wasn't hurt and then he took 2 epidural shots to the spine or that Tim wasn't hurt last year, despite chronic plantar fascitis which limited his lateral mobility, yet he still outscored Dirk for that series.
See stats below for conference semis:
http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2...emi_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2005/...emi_stats.html

Tim outplayed Dirk.

[JGrice02]

JGrice i think you are forgetting that Buckner is a better shooter and less liability on offense than Griffin. Also Griffin is slowed because of a bad back, Buckner is much quicker. We are talking about slight upgrades here not major. I agree the only big upgrade was Anthony Johnson>Darrel Armstrong.

Buckner FG% - 43% last year
Griffin FG% - 48% last year

Griffin was very efficient last year with the Mavs. Though it should be noted that over the course of their careers Buckner has been more efficient on offense. But as was pointed out to you earlier, Griffin had a higher Efficiency Rating than Buckner. And neither player has been a model of good health. Griffin is probably a little better on defense and Buckner on offense. The stats really don't differentiate between the two. And that is the point.

If you assume Buckner will have a better season than he did last year AND Griffing will have a worse season than he did last year then you can say it is a slight upgrade. But that is assuming a lot for players going to new teams.

I really dont see how losing Daniels can be a downgrade because he never played and wasnt relied on. He may be talented and have potential but its not like we are losing his services, we never used him to begin with.

Daniels averaged 28 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 3.6 rps, and 2.8 apg. That can hardly be classified as a player who was barely used by Avery. That is, unless it is convenient for you to overlook his contributions and talent in a futile attempt to prove he will not be missed. Compare him to Buckner, George, even Ager if you want, and all three of them are downgrades. Ager may end up being an upgrade but at the start of the season there is not a player the Mavs brought in as talented or productive as Daniels.

That doens't mean it was not a good move trading away Daniels. Maybe other players fit into Avery's scheme better. Other players are certinaly more cost-efficient. But so far as production in the short term, losing Daniels is a downgrade on the bench that is offset by the upgrade at backup PG. Everything else is too close to distinguish. Dallas maintained a deep bench at a cheaper price. They upgraded their financial position. Whether they upgraded their players is yet to be seen.

[Mavs_man_41]

Buckner FG% - 43% last year
Griffin FG% - 48% last year

Griffin was very efficient last year with the Mavs. Though it should be noted that over the course of their careers Buckner has been more efficient on offense. But as was pointed out to you earlier, Griffin had a higher Efficiency Rating than Buckner. And neither player has been a model of good health. Griffin is probably a little better on defense and Buckner on offense. The stats really don't differentiate between the two. And that is the point.

If you assume Buckner will have a better season than he did last year AND Griffing will have a worse season than he did last year then you can say it is a slight upgrade. But that is assuming a lot for players going to new teams.




Daniels averaged 28 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 3.6 rps, and 2.8 apg. That can hardly be classified as a player who was barely used by Avery. That is, unless it is convenient for you to overlook his contributions and talent in a futile attempt to prove he will not be missed. Compare him to Buckner, George, even Ager if you want, and all three of them are downgrades. Ager may end up being an upgrade but at the start of the season there is not a player the Mavs brought in as talented or productive as Daniels.

That doens't mean it was not a good move trading away Daniels. Maybe other players fit into Avery's scheme better. Other players are certinaly more cost-efficient. But so far as production in the short term, losing Daniels is a downgrade on the bench that is offset by the upgrade at backup PG. Everything else is too close to distinguish. Dallas maintained a deep bench at a cheaper price. They upgraded their financial position. Whether they upgraded their players is yet to be seen.

When i say losing Daniels isnt a downgrade because we never used him i am talking about the playoffs. He averaged only 3.4ppg and 1.1rpg in 11.1 minutes during the playoffs. And those numbers are even lower in the WCF and NBA Finals. What i am saying is the mavericks playoff roster didnt downgrade because marquis was never used during the playoffs.

[JGrice02]

When i say losing Daniels isnt a downgrade because we never used him i am talking about the playoffs. He averaged only 3.4ppg and 1.1rpg in 11.1 minutes during the playoffs. And those numbers are even lower in the WCF and NBA Finals. What i am saying is the mavericks playoff roster didnt downgrade because marquis was never used during the playoffs.

I agree. The Mavs playoff roster certainly did not downgrade. I was referring to Daniels contributions in the regular season which were somewhat significant when you look at his stats. But if we are talking playoff roster and not regular season I'm not sure they upgraded either, even at the backup PG position. That all depends on how much time Johnson sees in the playoffs. If he plays at least 15-20 mpg then, yes, I think he will improve their playoff rotation. Other than Johnson I don't think anyone they added this offseason will bring much to the table in the playoffs. Most of them won't play much, if at all. But I could be wrong. Maybe Avery can get something out of these role players above what they have done in the past. I certainly don't put that past him.

[Mavs_man_41]

I really think Buckner will get playing time and make good contributions. Avery seems really high on him.

[SequSpur]

Raptors Front Line > Spurs Front Line

[intlspurshk]

I agree. The Mavs playoff roster certainly did not downgrade. I was referring to Daniels contributions in the regular season which were somewhat significant when you look at his stats. But if we are talking playoff roster and not regular season I'm not sure they upgraded either, even at the backup PG position. That all depends on how much time Johnson sees in the playoffs. If he plays at least 15-20 mpg then, yes, I think he will improve their playoff rotation. Other than Johnson I don't think anyone they added this offseason will bring much to the table in the playoffs. Most of them won't play much, if at all. But I could be wrong. Maybe Avery can get something out of these role players above what they have done in the past. I certainly don't put that past him.

Under the same token, SPURS playoff roster also improved significantly as they replaced two hardly used centers with two centers who will not sit on the bench for the whole game.

[mavsfan1000]

This article is a joke. Lmao at spurs fans actually agreeing with it.

[JGrice02]

This article is a joke. Lmao at spurs fans actually agreeing with it.

One would expect such a response from a Mavs fan. I suppose the articles written by Dallas media and fans praising their offseason moves are not jokes. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Only accept the opinions of those you agree with or want to believe. Otherwise, call their opinion a joke. Don't prove them wrong with a rational argument; just call them a joke. Its much easier and requires less brain power.

[LEONARD]

Wow...this thread turned to $hit...too funny!

and despite what happened in the '03 playoffs with his knee, Dirk is still pretty tough IMO. He takes a lot of shots and 99% of the time gets up unharmed...impressive for a gawky 7 footer with bad ankles...

[FromWayDowntown]

Wow...this thread turned to $hit...too funny!

and despite what happened in the '03 playoffs with his knee, Dirk is still pretty tough IMO. He takes a lot of shots and 99% of the time gets up unharmed...impressive for a gawky 7 footer with bad ankles . . .

. . . and a penchant for elaboration.

[Doug Collins]

Hey im all for physical play thats how i get any playing time in basketball. I never intentionally knock the out of people. Ill give a hard foul to prevent the layup though. But you realize fouling a 90% ft shooter isnt very smart.

It is when it happens in crunchtime of the NBA Finals aka chokefest.







Of course he did hit his free throws against the spurs

[mavsfan1000]

One would expect such a response from a Mavs fan. I suppose the articles written by Dallas media and fans praising their offseason moves are not jokes. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Only accept the opinions of those you agree with or want to believe. Otherwise, call their opinion a joke. Don't prove them wrong with a rational argument; just call them a joke. Its much easier and requires less brain power.

It is a joke when you break it down. This guy is obviously letting his hate for the mavs blind him.
Anthony Johnson>DA
Croshere>Van Horn
Buckner>Griffin
Ager=Daniels. At least Ager can shoot which is why he is a better fit than Daniels.

[FromWayDowntown]

It is a joke when you break it down. This guy is obviously letting his hate for the mavs blind him.

I guess because hatred of the Mavericks is the only possible explanation for why anyone would look at the Mavs off-season and think anything other than that the Mavericks will run-away with the division, conference, and league.

I mean think about how obvious Kahn's hatred will be when he picks the Mavericks to win only 60 games this year. How blinded by hatred can one man be?!?! And let's not even talk about how obvious it will be if he picks the Spurs to retain their division le!! Talk about hatred leading a man to absurd conclusions!!

[mavsfan1000]

I guess because hatred of the Mavericks is the only possible explanation for why anyone would look at the Mavs off-season and think anything other than that the Mavericks will run-away with the division, conference, and league.

I mean think about how obvious Kahn's hatred will be when he picks the Mavericks to win only 60 games this year. How blinded by hatred can one man be?!?! And let's not even talk about how obvious it will be if he picks the Spurs to retain their division le!! Talk about hatred leading a man to absurd conclusions!!

Well not saying that Johnson isn't a big improvement over a 40 year old Armstrong or Croshere isn't an improvement over Van Suck than yes he is blinded by hatred.

[Leetonidas]

Well not saying that Johnson isn't a big improvement over a 40 year old Armstrong or Croshere isn't an improvement over Van Suck than yes he is blinded by hatred.

Van Suck? Without Keith, the Spurs are the back-to-back champs right now. He saved the Mav's asses in a couple games with his three point shooting.

[Mavs_man_41]

His defense screwed us more than his shooting ever helped us......not to mention his lack of hustle, rebounding, decision making, shot selection, ball handling, the list can go on and on.