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Then why did D'Antoni have to realign the defense specifically so that Nash wouldn't be guarding Tony Parker?
In that sense you are right, but Nash affects his team's offense so much more and makes that team so much better that's why he was MVP twice in a row and should have been again this year. I'll agree that Duncan's game is better all around, but it also needs to be much more than Nash's does given the position. Suns have not suffered yet in the playoffs as a result of Nash on defense, they have been beaten by the big guy all 3 years.
Then why did D'Antoni have to realign the defense specifically so that Nash wouldn't be guarding Tony Parker?
It is realistic. Kidd had a ton of talent to work with over his tenure there, and never improved them all the way Nash does nor affected the team that much. , look at what Nash did for Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw's careers. Check out their checking accounts as a result. That right there makes him a superior player.
Because that's where his best defender matches up best. Marion would be no better used on anyone else. That was not a move to keep Nash off Parker, it was strictly a move to use Marion best. It's called matchups. As I said, look at the last 3 playoff exits for the Suns. The offensive play of the opposing point guards has not at all been the Suns demise. It was Duncan, Dirk, Brand, Odom and Kobe.
Nash needs the Suns system to do what he does. If he was on a less offense oriented squad his areas that are lacking would be far more apparent. Duncan you could put on any team and they are leaps and bounds better right away. Not so with Nash he needs to be in the Suns system to really flourish.
Joe Johnson averaged 20 and 25 in his two seasons in Atlanta, so saying he's a product of Steve Nash obviously isn't right. Antonio McDyess vs. Amare Stoudemire? Please. There's no chance those late '90s Suns teams were as talented as the current crop.
I'll give you Nash making Diaw better, but to say that definitively makes Nash better is absurd. You're forgetting Kidd's defense and rebounding, no mention to those whatsoever.
First of all Billups has made plays under the pressure of the finals. He is their Mr. Clutch. Second Kidd was in phoenix earlier in his career while nash was later in his career. So you really cannot compare the two. That is like putting a rookie MJ against the now veteran Kobe. And I call Marbury giving Parker a harder time in 03 than nash has (although you could possibly chalk that one up to Parkers youth). And parker has owned nash everytime they have played as of late and he is only 25. While nash is very good he can only play one side of the court and is a huge product of the system.
And take it easy man...its just a sports debate.
So he wouldn't be better used on Tim Duncan? You yourself said that the other team's big men are what killed the Suns, so why not use your best defender, a forward, to guard the guy killing you? It's a direct contradiction of your own point.
And the reason it was "the best matchup" is a direct result of Nash, because Parker averaged 28 a game with Nash guarding him in the regular season.
I think Hitmany2k is a, and has not watched the series against Denver and Phoenix. Probably busy learning BBall from the Pistons' school
and preparing his fishing rod.
However, I agree that Nash is a better PG than TP (and any other PG in the league right now, except maybe Wade in good shape). Better passing skills, much better 3 pt shoot. And I think he is not such a bad defensive player - he probably lacks some energy because of his running (same reason IMO TP could not score much in the second half yesterday, because of the energy he spent chasing Suns in defense).
But we will see within the next five years or so how TP performs at his prime...
Because Maion is not sized to cover big men like that. Never has been and never will be.
Just for s and giggles, let's give Dantoni the benefit of the doubt and believe that he meant to say OVER the past 10 years instead of IN the past 10 years. That would remove guys like Jordan and Malone who did not play in many years of that span.
You still have to go with Duncan & Shaq easily over Nash. I'd also go with KG, Iverson, Kidd, & Kobe.
IMHO, you have to take into account how thoroughly awful Nash is on the defensive end of the floor. He's got tremendously quick feet, so despite being undersized, he shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as he is on that end of the floor.
I should just agree with you all because of course you will all say it as San Antonio fans right after this past series. Actual NBA analysts however would easily put Nash up there as the best PG and many have even called him the best player of the last 10 years because of his play and what he does for his team. A players own individual play is only a small aspect in this duscussion because this is a team sport. That right there knowcks players like Iverson, Kidd, KG, Kobe down.
Now in a 1 on 1 situation, of course Nash would get beat quite easily by most of the guys listed, but in the team aspect, and overall play, there is a reason why guys who really know the game and are paid to analyze it would put Nash up there every time.
All you guys as well as myself are just fans of these teams and players but don't really know the game half as well as the analysts and others within the game who say this stuff. And we all here sure as are all biased on this topic.
AWESOME!
Their coach is such a .
That statement is so stupid, Nash only got great in his last three years.
Duncan has been great for 10 years straight. Duncan is the sure-bet, and you don't have to be the coach of him to say it.
If anyone's gonna blame the Suns for the drama-queen series, it started with this bag. No one in their right mind would make statements so casually, even if you're backing your player up. ONE of the top players would have sufficed.
First he says his teams more talented and now this. Idiot. If the more talented team loss, what does that say about your coaching? ass.
Ah, so let's see.
Nash is a completely hopeless defender on defense. In fact, he might have cost the Suns Game 5. Watch it again, because I did tonight, and he's constantly roving around, cheating off Bruce Bowen (who has basically one shot) and leaving his man wide open CONSTANTLY.
You're stating that player is a superior point guard because he gets his guys a lot of points? Fine. And for every point Nash dishes out in the playoffs, his appalling defense makes him a complete liability on the other end of the court.
He's undersized, with incredibly slow lateral mobility when he doesn't have the ball, and he has no clue how to orchestrate anything on the defensive side of things. He's supposed to be a leader -- where is he when his team needs a stop? Jordan used to be criticized for lackluster defense, and he became THE premier defender in the league. Lebron James has increased his defensive abilities this season as well. Tony Parker has evolved into a complete defensive stopper -- he shut down former MVP Allen Iverson.
Nash however, only seems to care about one end of the court.
Answer me this, Suns fans: You claim Nash is one of the greatest PGs of all time. If that's true, why has he not improved one iota on defense over the past 5 years? Even D'Antoni the coaching "Go go play hard" boy of the NBA realized that putting Nash on Parker was idiotic and hopeless.
Bottom line, and I cannot say this emphatically enough: Great players don't whine about the past. They raise their games and stop the past mistakes from happening again.
All Steve Nash is, is a glorified stat suffer. He will never win the le as a premier point guard.
Give me Parker, Billups, Kidd, LeBron. , give me Deron Williams or Cp3 over Nash. At least they know how to stay in front of their man sometimes.
The second Nash opened his mouth and started whining like his coach about how unfair the league was, he removed any chance he'd ever have of being one of the truly great players in the league who can lead their team through adversity to a championship.
He probably won't be in my Top 50 when it's all said and done. That's reserved for players who don't cry like 5 year-olds when things don't go their way.
Best player in the past 10 years...
Never to make the finals.
This thread isn't about Kevin Garnett, man.
Is Nash the best player in the past ten years? Who else compares.......
Kidd and Stockton come to mind right off the bat. Those two at least made it to the NBA Finals multiple times. Stockton averaged more APG in a system which was not run and gun. Kidd comes close to getting triple doubles every time he steps onto the court.
Now if you throw in players who actually won championships like Pippen, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Wade, and Billups well you see the problem with even putting him the top 5.
On my list he's probably top 10, and barely at that.
BS. Name one analyst who said Nash is the best player in the post-Jordan era. No one but your whining head coach said that. Nash himself knows this. After the 2005 series, he said something to the effect of "hate to admit it, but he (Duncan) was the best player on the court". And Duncan just proved it again.
There is no way you can put Nash in the same sentence as Duncan and Shaq. Those two are in the all-time top 10, and are the top 2 of this era. Nash may or may not even be in the top 5 of this era. I'd definitely rate Duncan, Shaq and Kobe above Nash. Wade has a ring and a Finals MVP. Iverson, Garnett and Dirk have won MVPs playing on teams with less talent than Nash. Lebron will almost certainly overtake Nash in the next 2-3 years.
Nash is a very good point guard. Just not an all-time great. And the pathetic thing is everybody knows that, including you. Even D'Antoni knows it deep inside. Making a ridiculous statement like that shows just how badly he has been affected by defeat at the Spurs' hands.
You are demented
Nash right now is the best pg, at least statistically. Although billups, kidd, paul, parker would have as good if not better stats then nash. Imagine parker in a run and gun system... I think Nash is a great pg at a time where there really isn't a bunch of class pgs in the league. In saying that, Nash gets hoisted to MVPdom because of the dumb media and playing in a system that accentuates his strengths passing and shooting. I'll take lebron, td, kobe, kg, dirk, a healthy wade over nash any day. If you made a list of the top 5 players playing this year, I don't think nash would even make that, at least if you're intelligent and not a suns homer.
Well then I guess pretty much every knowledgable NBA analyst there is is a Suns homer. And I know most responses are going to be that the analysts are idiots who don't know what the they are talking about, when in all reality, they know very much what they are talking about. You'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who really knows the NBA not say Nash is easily a top 5 player this year and in previous years, for sure the last 3. There is a reason why he was 2 time MVP and second this year, because he is a top 5 player EASILY! Just not to close minded Spurs fans who think he whines to much and Duncan never does.
Nash just realizes Duncan's team wins, and he whines and cries more than any player there is, so he was trying that appraoch.
Tim also plays some D.........
Perhaps he should try that approach.
And I'll say again, Nash's lack of D never is a reason why they lose, because he never covers the guys who beat them, because that has been the big man the last 3 years, or lack thereof on his own side last year.
Hey, I replayed that statement he made in the postgame interview and I don't know if he didn't say:
"That's the best Spurs've played the last ten years".
He mumbles, I'm not kidding.
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