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Kobe shoots it 20-25 times a night. Not to mention, he gets double and sometimes even triple teamed EVERY time he touches the ball. Manu virtually never has to worry about being double teamed, because of his team.
Manu is God.
End of story.
Kobe shoots it 20-25 times a night. Not to mention, he gets double and sometimes even triple teamed EVERY time he touches the ball. Manu virtually never has to worry about being double teamed, because of his team.
Manu is never doubled? That's a new one. Lest we forget that he's been the man on other teams (Kinder Bologna, Argentine National) on which he was the man.
That's a myth. No wing player gets double and triple teamed every time they touch the ball. Kobe got one on one treatment against the Spurs. Kobe got one on one treatment the whole night against the Pistons on Friday. Got the same one on one defense last night with the Bulls. The only time teams truly collapse on him is when he gets in the paint and that happens to EVERY wing player who gets into the paint.
Compared to what Kobe has to face? It's nothing.
yeah, didnt you see the triple teams the raptor's were throwing at kobe when he went for 81? and the cheap shots? there are so many good defenders in the NBA, and so many good teams, and they're all just waiting for kobe to show up so they can kill him on national television!!!
manu never gets that kind of defensive attention. certainly not when argentina beat the US NT in indiana (that was all oberto), definitely not in athens (scola!), and definitely not in the playoffs with the NBA champs (duncan, duh). did you see the denver series in 05? they just rolled out the red carpet and said "we can live with that scrub ginobili bricking layups, just dont let barry get hot from 3!." it worked so good that seattle and detroit did the same thing. that manu guy can only score when other people are doing all the hard work of creating an easy shot for him, like jaque vaughn and pepe sanchez. there is no way a team led by manu could beat a team led by lebron or ai, not to mention a team with carlos boozer or duncan. kobe could beat all of those guys at the same time, and he wouldnt even need more than one or two nba players and a coach no one has ever heard of.
actually, kobe has the 4th best bench in the NBA and a hof-er coach, and he has a hard time beating teams with 1/8th the talent of team USA. the only time he ever won anything was when he played with shaq. yet it's manu that depends on duncan for success???
Fantastic numbers on Manu so far. All that while still averaging less than 30 minutes a game.
Manu is not worthy of tying Kobe's shoes.
So Manu is only a good player because of Duncan ?
So let's look at the number.
It's the number from the 06-07 regular season from 82games.com:
Manu stats per 40 min with Duncan (Manu played 1400min with Duncan) :
FGA : 15.1
FG%: .474
FTA: 7.1
Rebounds : 6.7
Assists : 4.1
Turnovers : 2.7
Blocks : 0.5
Stl : 2.0
Points : 22.9
Manu stats per 40 min without Duncan (Manu played 659min without Duncan) :
FGA : 19.8
FG%: .443
FTA: 7.4
Rebounds : 5.8
Assists : 7.2
Turnovers : 3.6
Blocks : 0.5
Stl : 2.3
Points : 26.7
Manu has a lower FG% without Duncan but it's not a disaster (you had to consider that he takes a lot of 3's).
Without Duncan, Manu scored last season 26.7points per 40 minutes. For reference Lebron James scored 26.7points per 40 minutes last year.
7.2 assists per 40 min is also damn impressive for someone who isn't a PG.
And the scary thing is that Manu is, for the moment, way better than last year.
By looking at these numbers, it's quite evident that Manu is a great player because of Duncan.
You left one guy off the list that i like the best.So far, having played roughly 1/8 of the season, these are your 20-5-5 players in the league.
Code:Name GP MPG PPG FGA-FGM FG% 3P% FTA-FTM FT% REB AST STL LeBron James 10 40.7 29.2 10.3-21.8 .472 .375 7.4-11.0 .673 7.8 8.0 1.8 Kobe Bryant 8 38.0 27.4 9.8-20.6 .473 .333 6.4--7.9 .810 7.4 5.3 1.2 Tracy McGrady 9 35.8 26.8 9.8-20.9 .468 .366 5.6--7.3 .758 5.1 5.1 1.1 Manu Ginobili 10 28.8 20.0 5.7-12.0 .475 .429 6.5--7.8 .833 5.7 5.1 2.3
Josh Howard
33.1 minutes per game
23 ppg
55% fg
35% 3 pt
86% FT
5.9 Rebounds
Howard isn't a 20/5/5 player.
wtf????????
howard is averaging 22.9, 5.9, and 1.9.
yeah, didnt you see the triple teams the raptor's were throwing at kobe when he went for 81? and the cheap shots? there are so many good defenders in the NBA, and so many good teams, and they're all just waiting for kobe to show up so they can kill him on national television!!!
manu never gets that kind of defensive attention. certainly not when argentina beat the US NT in indiana (that was all oberto), definitely not in athens (scola!), and definitely not in the playoffs with the NBA champs (duncan, duh). did you see the denver series in 05? they just rolled out the red carpet and said "we can live with that scrub ginobili bricking layups, just dont let barry get hot from 3!." it worked so good that seattle and detroit did the same thing. that manu guy can only score when other people are doing all the hard work of creating an easy shot for him, like jaque vaughn and pepe sanchez. there is no way a team led by manu could beat a team led by lebron or ai, not to mention a team with carlos boozer or duncan. kobe could beat all of those guys at the same time, and he wouldnt even need more than one or two nba players and a coach no one has ever heard of.
actually, kobe has the 4th best bench in the NBA and a hof-er coach, and he has a hard time beating teams with 1/8th the talent of team USA. the only time he ever won anything was when he played with shaq. yet it's manu that depends on duncan for success???
Seems a bit flukish for Manu to start off this hot. Tony and Tim are lagging a bit on offense, so I expect it to level off. Its possible Manu might be a little more effective on offense then both of them for a solid portion of the season, but its doubtful he has a +10%TS edge, and 5-6PPG more per 40 minutes by playoff time.
His PER in the 05 Playoffs was 25, but what was more impressive was that he was more effective on offense then Tim Duncan statistically, and also the fact that Parker wasn't too good offensively for most of the playoffs -- yet Manu still found a way to score at an astounding productivity.
His last two playoffs IMO have been a disappointment, especially compared 2005. He looked very good at times, but other times a non-factor. I really hope Manu can keep this up somewhat and bring back the 05 Manu in the playoffs. Would be a huge treat for the fans and be a huge boost to the Spurs le hopes.
Come on! that last two playoffs, he's been great. Just because he hasn't been amazing like in 2005 doesn't mean he wasn't great. Last playoffs he might have had a few games where he should've played better, but overall I think he played awesome ball. You speak as if he hasn't contributed in the past two post seasons. That's bull and you know it. Without Manu the 2007 championship goes bye bye.
This season came out of nowhere though. Unexpected would be an understatement. Not only because Manu doesn't usually kick it up into high gear until later on in the season, but because the gear he is on right now, he's not supposed to have
seriously these spurs fans are something else.
when i was upset about our loss against the rockets..i was hit with "its only november" responses. but a day later when manu's barely decent stats (thats what they are, nothing special) are posted they compare him to wilt and jordan
I know right? His stats are nothing special. That's why we need to dump his ass. And compared to Wilt and Jordan???seriously these spurs fans are something else.
when i was upset about our loss against the rockets..i was hit with "its only november" responses. but a day later when manu's barely decent stats (thats what they are, nothing special) are posted they compare him to wilt and jordan
Totally agree with this guy.
beno anyone?
You agree with yourself?I know right? His stats are nothing special. That's why we need to dump his ass. And compared to Wilt and Jordan???
Totally agree with this guy.
I think they're different guys. But they are dating each other!
BUMP
WEll I put emphasys in rings - those guys don't bring any. Manu has always played this good more or less - you just haven't watched him for so long (this is clear as you demonstrate it again and again on each post you enter).
Why? Why are they in another class of player? What have TMac and Lebron done over Manu here or overseas? sell more t-shirts? I think Kobe is great but it looks to me he's on decline or he was always just this good but had Shaq with him (hence getting 3 rings)
I can't compare Kobe to Lebron - they are different. I can't compare T_Mac with Lebron, they are different. If you ask me what is the most complete players today in the league: Lebron. He's the most complete BBaller now.
So why do you think Manu is not in the same level? Is that what media says? is that in proportion to sales? branding? etc? I haven't seen anything special from T-Mac in years. Kobe looks like a whinny and we all know his team won't make it to the finals. Lebron plays with a B team.
I'm not even talking about numbers posted. Forget about that. You need to watch more Manu games. You need to get to watch what he has done when he was in Europe or the national team. Only then you will have a better understanding of what you are trying to judge here. Only then.
PS. I applaud your spirit and the time you waste in this forum.
When you try to compare players, one of the best ways to do that is to see if the ball is put into a player's hands with the game on the line--and what they do with that responsibility. All of the players named get that honor.
Now then, what are the results? Manu and Kobe have multiple championships, indicating they have both the talent and the will to win. McGrady and LeBron have yet to demonstrate that.
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