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No, he's dead. That makes him a corpse.
Hakeem was born, drafted, and played over half his career as a Nigerian citizen. I really don't think he'd be insulted to be considered in discussions of the best foreign players ever, whoooot.
Why has no one said Beno?
continue.
No, he's dead. That makes him a corpse.
Hakeem was born, drafted, and played over half his career as a Nigerian citizen. I really don't think he'd be insulted to be considered in discussions of the best foreign players ever, whoooot.
You're kidding right ?
hakeem is from the american basketball
He also wanted to become an American citizen...and considers himself an American. He considers himself a Muslim and a Nigerian as well...but being an American doesn't exclude him from being either of those...which has a lot to do with why he wanted to become one..
He was married here, his kids were born here, he was educated here.
Hakeem's an American...you don't have to be born here to be one, and I shouldn't have to explain that...
And he is a product of the American basketball system as well....just for the sake of argument. IF he'd stayed in Nigeria you'd have never heard of Hakeem the baketball player...you'd have heard of the biggest goalie ever instead.
Why aren't you guys listing Patrick Ewing? He was born in Jamaica...
Manumaniac...you should checkout Sarunas Marculonis(sp?)...he's the guy Manu is most often compared too(Manu's better, but Sarunas did have that same kind of herky jerky game).
Anyway...my list.
Duncan is an American Citizen so I won't insult him by excluding him...nor will I do that to Hakeem since he considers himself an American.
My top 5:
1. Sabonis - the guy who indirectly lead to the creation of the Dream Team.
2. Manu - Manu hasn't won an NBA MVP...but he's won everything and everywhere else. I'd much rather have his career than that of any other International player.
3. Steve Nash
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Toni Kukoc or Vlade Divacs, can't decide.
Tony's day will come....
we are talking abt GREATEST...lolWhy has no one said Beno?
continue.
Not includding Petro in the top 5 is out of mind
How about you don't have a clue.
Yugoslavian team is the reason that forced US to put that original dream team together. Ask Alonzo Mournig and his teammates haow they felt in Argentina WC.
Petrovic
Kukoc
Divac
Radja
Danilovic
Paspalj
Zdovc
Djordjevic
Do this names ring a bell? If they don't than you are very young or you know about international bball. This team trashed any team they played by 20 points (average) and US took international compe ion for real for the first time. All this guys played in NBA except for Zdovc (maybe the best European defender of all times) who also had some offers (Lakers I think).
Idiot...obviously some of those names ring a bell since 2 of them made my list of the top 5 international players ever...
However, are you now claiming that any of those guys are fit to hold Sabonis jock? Either have the balls to make that claim directly and be an idiot who's not afraid to be an idiot...or shut up.
It was the defeat of the 88 Olympic Team to the Soviet Union that lead directly to the creation of the Dream Team...trust me I was here when it happened. The decision happened in America...I know why we made it.
I saw Marciulonis at one NBA vintage game, I thought he was real horrible. Not at any way compared to Ginobili, although he did get to the line often. It was the highest scoring game in NBA history if Im correct.
For me I'd put:
1. Hakeem
2. Manu
3. Parker
4. Nash
5. Petrovic
And I thought I'm the one that has problems with English.
Those are members of that famous Yugoslavian team that wracked havoc in international compe ions. I mentioned THEIR NAMES to show you why US established that DREAM TEAM. US team did lose against Russians, but up and coming team was Yugo team that lost to Russians in semis in Seoul. In the next few years they simply destroyed international compe ion everywhere.
Russians were a lot weaker at that time.
I never claimed that any of those players I mentioned is better that Sabonis as an individual player (there are at least 2, but that is not an issue here). But as a TEAM they were invincible and original DREAM TEAM would have quite a game against them.
So you illiterate clown...READING IS GOOD! JUST DO IT!
Last edited by sendman; 12-03-2007 at 02:39 AM.
Hakeem is a legend of the game... After the six untouchables (MJ, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Bird) Hakeem is probably the greatest to every play the game.
After that its tough to say... Are Manu's 3 les and FIBA accomplishments more impressive than Dirk leading his team to the NBA Finals as lead dog and winning individual honours... same as Nash and Parker... do we take Parker's rings as second/third option or Nash's individual accomplishments.
Out of the list you made...
Hakeem
-------------
Out of the front runners playing now...
Dirk
Nash
Manu
Parker
But then you so much more... Kukoc and Drazen,... even Vlade ...
That loss in 88 was entirely the fault of John Thompson; he should have never been the coach in the first place after Lute Olson brought back gold in the 86 world championships for the first time in 32 years knocking off both Yugoslavia and Russia, and he most certainly should not have been allowed to pick the roster because of how biased he was.It was the defeat of the 88 Olympic Team to the Soviet Union that lead directly to the creation of the Dream Team...
With the 3 point shot in use and knowing in order to win the gold we would have to go through Russia, he doesn't have Sean Elliot on the team who was way too quick for any Russian to guard, and either Steve Kerr or Glen Rice should have been on the roster to hit 3's. And knowing Sabonis was coming about a 2nd center on the roster like Ron Seikaly ??
I agree Sabonis was a great basketball player by any measure, but John Thompson alone was the reason that Russia won the gold in 1988.
Last edited by LEN BIAS 4EVER; 12-03-2007 at 05:26 AM.
petrovic and marcilonis (sp?!) may have been great individually, but accomplishments wise they didnt have especially great careers (in the case of petrovic, we'll never really know). some europeans tend to overrate guys like petrovic, and the yugo national team of that time. they will always be remembered for being good players and for opening the NBA to internationals, but are you really telling me petrovic is the best international player ever, and that that yugo team was the best national team ever????
if we're just basing this on skills, then this is between sabonis and hakeem, and like whottt i consider hakeem american, because he learned the game there. sabonis learned to play ball in russia and he had an amazing combination of size, coordination, and ball iq- he played both ends of the court to perfection.
Still thinking that you're kidding...
here's from a Steve Nash interview (check the other thread) and this guy has even never played an NBA Final !!!!
Q. Steve - What do you think would be more gratifying, scoring the winning basket on the buzzer to win the NBA Championship or scoring the winning goal in the dying seconds of the (football) World Cup Final (for Canada!) Vince Small, Paris
A. Great question. The simple answer is, you can't go wrong with either choice. BUT, for me, there is something about the World Cup, having the whole country behind you and the whole world watching you, that makes that unbeatable. The NBA Finals are every year, the World Cup is every four years. I just think there is nothing like the World Cup. Then add the fact, you've got me scoring the winner for Canada ...! I guess that sounds far fetched but it strikes me Canada have as much chance as England of winning the World Cup these days!
I won't talk about who is best. Is it Sabonis, Parker, Dirk, Kukoc...or somebody else. How can somebody determine something like that. You can't compare Jordan and say Chemberlain (different era, different rules, different equipment...) OK you can, but with no real result. The same goes for teams. You can only state your personal preferences. And my personal preference is that Yugo team. I like Argentina with Manu, Sanchez, Oberto, Scola and others very much, I liked that "Lietuva" team with Sarunas and Sabonis too. Still, the best BBALL team of all times probably is that original dream team from USA, but I really do believe that that Yugo team would give them run for their money (International rules).
that yugo team was great, but i dont think they could have given the 92 dream team any more than a good challenge. ive heard too many times people arguing they could be better than the 92 dream team when there is really no reason to believe that. the 92 final against croatia, was about half of that yugo team, and they lost by 30, to a team that had less than a month preparation. i dont see how 4-5 players (mostly from the bench) would change that deficit, moreso taking into account that dream team never showed us more than 3rd gear.
In 1992 Croatian team are only Petrovic, Kukoc, Rađa and Vrankovic from Yugo team. So you miss 8 players. Kukoc and Petrovic were starters in Yugo team. So you have 2/5 of original starting 5. Great coaching.
And even Petrovic, Rađa and Kukoc were enough to lead 25-23 in finals. Yes, they eventually lost by 30. But Dream team have to play Jordan and Magic so they didn't give game a strange direction before half time. Of course those 3 players can't win against selection of 2 ˝ generation (10 years) best USA basketball players. But with full Yugo roster… where Dream team wouldn't compare against 19 years old Croatian players but would have to against 23-26 years old »veterans«, still quick, skilful….
NBA is all marketing. It is business. Players are so promoted that they actually start to believe they are better by margin. Thank god we have WC and Olympics where they can prove how good they are. Please don't give me »rules issues«…. Will continue (if you wish)
And yes, we all have completely forgot about Galis. Put Nikos Galis (in his best years) in game and Sabonis and others can just sit and cry.
Khrapa and Garbajosa
I respect your opinion, but will never know.
That yugo team was undefeated for years. Not only that. Nobody couldn't come even close. I have just one regret about former Yugoslavia falling apart and that is that I couldn't see that particular game. Again,this is my personal opinion and nothing more.
OK, I'm lying, my real regret is about all this people that got killed and destruction that goes with it. Just sad.
i know!
a lot of those same things you can say about the dream team- undefeated for years, no one ever came close (well, for 8 years at least, then finally 10 till they lost).
like i said, i think they were a great team, just not quite as great as the dream team.
and, though a bit off topic, my condolences to anyone here who lived through the separation, i know it was more than just your basketball and futbol teams that suffered.
did anyone mention Drazen?
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