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D'Antoni accepting that run and gun wasn't working and deciding to focus on defense and running good half court offense is a bad sign as well.
What he does with it is another story though.
I'm still thinking how this trade is going to help the Suns other than making a move to try stopping Duncan and maybe adding a guy who has won something before and then the experience factor/plus.
Is it confirmed this was Steve Kerr's idea, not Dantoni's?
I can't imagine what's Dantoni going to do now in order to make their entire team continue playing at that pace - can you imagine Shaq with his 350 pound running to the other side of the court for an easy basket? If there was anyone in this team who had the ability to read Dantoni's style of play, that was Marion, and now he's gone.
If it was Dantoni's idea then I guess he's finally accepting his style of play doesn't = rings so he's focusing on D a little bit more and slowing the tempo.
I saw that Steve Nash was happy with the trade though. He's missing Dirk so much.
D'Antoni accepting that run and gun wasn't working and deciding to focus on defense and running good half court offense is a bad sign as well.
What he does with it is another story though.
Yup.4. Shaq's value at the defense won't be in his mobility or lack thereof. It will be his ability to defend the post one on one adequately. Not be a defensive wall. Just be there against teams with low post threats. That in itself will allow Amare not to get into foul trouble. And, guaranteed, his presence will help prevent at least a few more guard drives to the basket.
The Spurs don't have another big offensively that could get Amare in foul trouble.
Oberto could, but doubtfull hed get calls on the offensive end.
JamStone, there isn't a lot more to say about Shaq/Marion except that we disagree.
You think that Shaq will help more Suns than Marion and I think the opposite.
Only future will tell who was right and who was wrong.
Except Marion was one of their best finishers on the break. They'll still be a fast break team, but do you think they'll be just as, if not more effective than without Marion?
One of the best finishers on the break, not the only.
Bruno, agreed. Good discussion.
2007 playoffs:
game 1: 16 points 6 boards
game 2: 5 points 10 boards
game 3: 26 points 7 boards
game 4: 12 points 12 boards
game 5: 24 points 17 boards
game 6: 11 points 11 boards
...inconsistent and an average of 15.67ppg and 10.5rpg with a fg% of 52. this after his regular season average of 17.5ppg and 9.8rpg and a fg% of 52.4, so not bad. but this was his best series by far.
2003 playoffs:
game 1: 24 points 12 boards (42.1 fg%)
game 2: 6 points 12 boards (21.4 fg%)
game 3: 18 points 8 boards (40 fg%)
game 4: 17 points 14 boards (38.8 fg%)
game 5: 22 points 9 boards (35 fg%)
game 6: 24 points 15 boards (42.8 fg%)
...averages of 18.5 ppg and 11.67 bpg with a fg% of 37.3. season averages that year were 21.2ppg and 9.5rpg with 45.2 fg%.
2005 playoffs:
game 1: 3 points 9 boards (16.67 fg%)
game 2: 11 points 12 boards (45.45 fg%)
game 3: 6 points 9 boards (33.33 fg %)
game 4: 11 points 14 boards (41.67 fg%)
game 5: 8 points 10 boards (50% fg%)
...averages of 7.8ppg and 10.8 rpg and a fg% of 39.1. season averages that year were 19.4ppg and 11.3rpg with 47.6 fg%.
Marion played his best in the 2007 series, before that he either couldn't get his shot up or when he did he shot a pathetic % vs. his regular season average. i stand by my original statements.
Before last year was all Bruce Bowen.
Last year I think Bowen played Nash alot more and Parker switched over to Bell.
i think you're right. marion has shooting problems against good defenders, what else is new. i think the trade helps phoenix, but that doesn't mean they win a le.
A healthy Shaq is obviously great for the Suns. I'm not sure how healthy he can be at this point in his career though.
An unhealthy Shaq will just eat up $20M of salary space the next two years and will effectively nail the Suns championship window shut.
Steve Kerr put it all on the line and you have to respect him for that. This move will make or break this team. He basically stole a page from Danny Ainge who saw that you have to just go for it all when you can. People will always remember that you won a championship. 20 years from now no one will remember today's teams that spent 8 years with a top 3 seed always coming up a little short.
What is more relevant ? What Marion did in 2003, 2005 or 2007 ?
you can backtrack or spin it all you want...bottom line, marion does not usually play well against the spurs...he is not hard to shut down. this trade makes the suns a little better, provided shaq plays.
No, bottom line is that Marion played well against Spurs last playoffs and his loss will hurt them even against Spurs.
Hill and Shaq will have to compensate what Marion Kurt Thomas brought last year against Spurs. We will see if they will be able to do it.
And it's funny that you say that I'm spinning things. I'm not the one who post 2003 stats when Suns were playing with Marbury.
Marion had become a black hole in the playoffs with the slower tempo.
He can't take the man in front of him off the dribble, he can't create a good shot with the clock winding down, he can't post up anybody, & his 3 pt shot is streaky.
We'll miss his energy & hustle which is a big loss, but this deal had to made IMO.
Not to mention the tension in the locker room.
You guys are still the champs, & the SUNS weren't going to win anything before this trade so KERR rolled the dice & the effects may not be known till April.
The SUNS medical staff has done wonders at times with the likes of A.McDyess,G.Hill,S.Nash, & even A.Stoudemire so it's not so far fetched to think that they can't get O'Neil's body to perform at a higher level.
You guys are the model franchise as to how to get it done.
I believe this deal has gotten us much closer(health permitting) to a realistic goal of being the last team standing in May.
Having said that, we still have the mis-fortune of having D'Antoni as a head coach.
marion did play well last year, but that was an aberration. he is not a thorn in the Spurs side, he doesn't hurt us, he isn't that good.
who cares if he was playing with marbury in 2003, the spurs had to guard him and in 2005 when they had nash he played even worse. whats your point? he pretty much stinks it up against the spurs. the Spurs OWN him, period.
...i just remembered why i hardly ever come in this forum. does losing Marion hurt phoenix against other teams?...maybe, but not against the Spurs, whom are the reigning champions and still the best in the west. i'm done.
i agree.
But it won't suffer even slightly?
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Suns throw Bell at Parker down the stretch and take their chances with Hill or Diaw on Manu.
Just wanted to start an official "Thank You" thread for Steve Kerr, our new BFF. He just removed PHX from the list of playoff problems for all of us in the West. Now and for the next few years, since Snaq's giant contract will cripple the franchise going forward.
Yeah yeah, I know, Marion was unhappy, but THIS is the best they could do?
A toast!
Phoenix a playoff problem ?!?!?!?!?!
The Suns don't even qualify as a rivalry...you know the formula for a rivalry, they have to win something to be considered one.
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