Diop is the Missing Piece

[mavsfan1000]

Now I'm not pulling a Mavsfan1000 and saying that Diop is the key to putting us over the top, but I was pissed when we gave him up in the Kidd deal. I thought it was too much to give for Kidd and he shouldn't have been included. I will say that we are much better with Diop as our starting center as opposed to Dampier.

I didn't say Diop would put us over the top but the reason this trade has made us worse is because of Diop being included. We now have a big weakness. Get Damp in foul trouble. After that, no interior defense.

[DarrinS]

I don't know how good of a player Diop is, but he sure helped the Mavs beat the Spurs in OT of game 7 in 2006.

[mavsfan1000]

I would've actually start Diop over Dampier if I were the coach. They can split the minutes. It got us to the Finals in 05-06. Why mess with it?

[mavs>spurs2]

I didn't say Diop would put us over the top but the reason this trade has made us worse is because of Diop being included. We now have a big weakness. Get Damp in foul trouble. After that, no interior defense.

Let me correct you on that, we have no interior defense period. Even when Damp is in the game. I dont know where people got the idea that he was some kind of defensive stopper but he's just as average as Dirk on D, only difference is we use him to keep Dirk out of foul trouble.

[Findog]

he was just valuable for the mavs and any team serious about winning a le which the Nets aren't.

Yeah, he was so valuable that he averaged twelve minutes a game. I'm not saying he isn't a useful player, but Diop is not a make or break component to doing the deal. The Nets "wanted" him for his expiring contract. Dallas was supposed to throw up their hands and say "Sorry, Dirk, Gana is just too valuable to give up?"

Diop is more valuable than Dampier, and

???????

what you said about his stamina ain't true because he had played big minutes for you guys, his foul trouble is what put him on the bench sometimes.

No, he lost a lot of weight from his Cleveland days, but had never played big minutes before. Believe me, the Mavs wanted nothing more than for him to make Dampier expendable and he couldn't do that. I agree the Mavs could use a better backup C than what they've got, but guys like Diop are not hard to find. There's no way you can in good conscience pass on a guy like Kidd because you consider Diop "untouchable."

[Findog]

Of course they have a shot at both of those, but they are not contenders to come out of the Western conference anymore.

And THAT is an absolute statement FinDog.....



DD

And because of Diop they were a le contender?

Nice logic da_rockets_fan.

DRF FTW

[Findog]

I don't know how good of a player Diop is, but he sure helped the Mavs beat the Spurs in OT of game 7 in 2006.

Yep, after Dampier banged on Duncan all game and he didn't get off the bench in regulation. When Diop checked in, he hadn't played while Timmy had been out there for 42+ minutes.

[DaDakota]

And because of Diop they were a le contender?

Nice logic da_rockets_fan.

DRF FTW

No, you are not a contender because you lost speed on the perimeter, a better perimeter shooter and better penetrator overall, and a solid low post defender.

You were a contender......what was your record on the day of the trade, and what position were you in the Western Conference standings?

That alone will tell the tale.

But at least do me one favor, can you guys beat Phoenix tomorrow night?

Thanks,

DD

[Findog]

Now I'm not pulling a Mavsfan1000 and saying that Diop is the key to putting us over the top, but I was pissed when we gave him up in the Kidd deal. I thought it was too much to give for Kidd and he shouldn't have been included. I will say that we are much better with Diop as our starting center as opposed to Dampier.

I would rather have not parted with him either, but if the Nets wanted his expiring in order to do the deal, then fine. Guys like Dirk are irreplaceable, and guys like Howard are hard to replace. Diop is like a tube of toothpaste. There are plenty more available at the right price if you need to go get one.

[DaDakota]

I would rather have not parted with him either, but if the Nets wanted his expiring in order to do the deal, then fine. Guys like Dirk are irreplaceable, and guys like Howard are hard to replace. Diop is like a tube of toothpaste. There are plenty more available at the right price if you need to go get one.

Wow, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen written on a BBS.

Diop is that easy to replace huh? Well then...go replace him..... I mean athletic bigs that can clog the middle and block shots, are a dime a dozen.

Wow......I mean....WOW...

I guess they are all over the D-League, just go pick one up and all the Mavs problems are instantly solved....NOT !


DD

[Findog]

No, you are not a contender because you lost speed on the perimeter, a better perimeter shooter and better penetrator overall, and a solid low post defender.

Yeah, our defense is better with Kidd. Just look at the stats. We give up 2 points less per hundred possessions with him as opposed to Harris. And Harris is not a good perimeter shooter either, look up his stats. And again, we lost Diop's ten minutes per game.

You were a contender......what was your record on the day of the trade, and what position were you in the Western Conference standings?

I believe we were 35-19 and in sixth place. Now we're 47-29 and in seventh place. We're 12-8 with Dirk/Kidd together. We'd still be struggling if we hadn't made the trade because of our injuries.

da_rockets_fan FTW

[mavsfan1000]

I would rather have not parted with him either, but if the Nets wanted his expiring in order to do the deal, then fine. Guys like Dirk are irreplaceable, and guys like Howard are hard to replace. Diop is like a tube of toothpaste. There are plenty more available at the right price if you need to go get one.

Name the plenty of defensive centers that are available to help protect the basket.

[Findog]

Wow, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen written on a BBS.

Diop is that easy to replace huh? Well then...go replace him..... I mean athletic bigs that can clog the middle and block shots, are a dime a dozen.

Wow......I mean....WOW...


DD

backup centers that play ten minutes a game and force you to play 4 on 5 on offense are not that hard to find. I didn't realize we let go of Bill Russell, seeing as how he couldn't beat out Dampier for the starting job. I mean, Dampier gets 30 minutes a game and Diop only gets ten, I wonder what that's about.

Mavs will get a backup center in the offseason. They couldn't take the chance that the Nets would find a different trading partner for Kidd in the summer. The dumbest thing I've ever heard is that the Mavs should've passed on acquiring Kidd because of DeSagana Diop and his ten minutes per game. If he was this great force that you say he is, why couldn't he ever earn a bigger role?

[mavsfan1000]

backup centers that play ten minutes a game and force you to play 4 on 5 on offense are not that hard to find. I didn't realize we let go of Bill Russell, seeing as how he couldn't beat out Dampier for the starting job. I mean, Dampier gets 30 minutes a game and Diop only gets ten, I wonder what that's about.

15 minutes and that is because Avery is an idiot. He should've been playing 24 minutes a game and Dallas should never go small.

[Findog]

Name the plenty of defensive centers that are available to help protect the basket.

Here's the guys available this summer that are plenty capable of replacing Bill Russell and his ten minutes per game:

Theo Ratliff
Chris Mihm
Adonal Foyle
Brian Skinner
Calvin Booth
Lorenzen Wright
Kurt Thomas
Rasho Nesterovic
Chris Anderson

I'd be fine with any one of those guys backing up Dampier for ten minutes a game. This Diop idiocy just blows my mind. Yes, he's a useful player, yes there will be times we miss him, but he is more than expendable. The bottom line is that you don't hold off on a trade to acquire Kidd because of him. If he's so valuable, the Mavs will have every opportunity to resign him this summer as a FA.

[Findog]

One of the real bizarre developments in looking at Kidd's impact and Harris' departure is that the "better floor general" Jason Kidd has hurt the offense, while the departure of the "best defensive point guard in the league" Devin Harris has helped our defense. In fact, the impact on the Mavs defense has been the single biggest change since the trade: The Mavs are giving up 1.7 fewer points per 100 possessions than they did before the trade. That's a very significant drop, and is nearly double the hit we took on the offensive side.

In terms of specifics, the Mavs have improved in practically every defensive category but turnovers: The opposition shoots worse, the Mavs allow fewer offensive rebounds, and are fouling less. The loss of Harris' taking charges certainly has had an impact on opponent turnovers, as the opposition commit over 2 fewer turnovers than they did before the trade.

[DaDakota]

I believe we were 35-19 and in sixth place. Now we're 47-29 and in seventh place. We're 12-8 with Dirk/Kidd together. We'd still be struggling if we hadn't made the trade because of our injuries.

Your overall record since the Kidd trade is 12-11......you were 35-18 at the date of the trade. And Dirk being out matters, but having an all star like Kidd should make you guys better and able to withstand a couple of games missed, right?

Mavs schedule

And you guys were 3rd in the WC 2 games behind the Hornets.......

I would say that dropping to 7th and danged close to being run completely out of the playoffs has proven that the Kidd trade was a knee jerk reaction to the other trades, and a bad move.

DD

[mavs>spurs2]

Your overall record since the Kidd trade is 12-11......you were 35-18 at the date of the trade. And Dirk being out matters, but having an all star like Kidd should make you guys better and able to withstand a couple of games missed, right?

Mavs schedule

And you guys were 3rd in the WC 2 games behind the Hornets.......

I would say that dropping to 7th and danged close to being run completely out of the playoffs has proven that the Kidd trade was a knee jerk reaction to the other trades, and a bad move.

DD

Why do you have to sign your post after every weak ass take?

[DaDakota]

One of the real bizarre developments in looking at Kidd's impact and Harris' departure is that the "better floor general" Jason Kidd has hurt the offense, while the departure of the "best defensive point guard in the league" Devin Harris has helped our defense. In fact, the impact on the Mavs defense has been the single biggest change since the trade: The Mavs are giving up 1.7 fewer points per 100 possessions than they did before the trade. That's a very significant drop, and is nearly double the hit we took on the offensive side.

In terms of specifics, the Mavs have improved in practically every defensive category but turnovers: The opposition shoots worse, the Mavs allow fewer offensive rebounds, and are fouling less. The loss of Harris' taking charges certainly has had an impact on opponent turnovers, as the opposition commit over 2 fewer turnovers than they did before the trade.

And now you are PLAGERIZING someone elses work as your own?

Why not just post the entire article, or credit your source?

Ooops...Findoggy busted.

DD

[Findog]

[QUOTE]

Your overall record since the Kidd trade is 12-11......

Yep, and 12-8 when he and Dirk are together.

you were 35-18 at the date of the trade. And Dirk being out matters, but having an all star like Kidd should make you guys better and able to withstand a couple of games missed, right?

It depends on who you're playing. Dirk means more to the Mavs than Yao means to the Rockets. The Mavs played some really tough teams on the road w/o him. Those are hard to win at full strength, much less missing your best player.

And you guys were 3rd in the WC 2 games behind the Hornets.......

and also like 3 games out of the playoffs entirely. Seedings are so irrelevant this year. There's the same gap between Boston and Detroit as there is between #1-#8 in the West. Would you say Detroit cannot beat Boston?

I would say that dropping to 7th

Who gives a about dropping to 7th place? 7th place in the West has been about 4-5 games from the top seed all year long.

and danged close to being run completely out of the playoffs

Newflash moron: EVERY contender in the West has been in danger of missing the playoffs if they suffer a key injury or go into a slump. This is the year that it's possible to be both 3 games out of the top seed and 3 games away from the lottery. This is the year that it's been possible to be the top seed one night and the fifth seed after one loss. All that really matters is getting in. It would be nice to have a top four seed and HCA for at least the first round, but there is not much difference in quality between the top 8 teams this year.

[Findog]

And now you are PLAGERIZING someone elses work as your own?

Why not just post the entire article, or credit your source?

Ooops...Findoggy busted.

DD

yep, mavs moneyball. I posted the link in another thread. I'm sure that's where you found it.

I haven't plagiarized .

[DaDakota]

[QUOTE=Findog]

Newflash: EVERY contender in the West has been in danger of missing the playoffs if they suffer a key injury or go into a slump. This is the year that it's possible to be both 3 games out of the top seed and 3 games away from the lottery. This is the year that it's been possible to be the top seed one night and the fifth seed after one loss. All that really matters is getting in. It would be nice to have a top four seed and HCA for at least the first round, but there is not much difference in quality between the top 8 teams this year.

Well, I agree with you here.....

[Findog]

Wait, findoggy? There's another poster on here that likes to use that term. I wonder what ever happened to him. He slinked off like a when his team started struggling...

And just like that poster, da_rockets_fan here likes to prematurely declare himself the winner of every argument and troll the board.

Hmm....

[mavs>spurs2]

Does anyone else think this talks just like da_suns_ ??

[Findog]

Does anyone else think this talks just like da_suns_ ??

Exact same MO. Only the mods know for sure, but it's the exact same re ation.