E-mail from my 3rd grader's teacher

[lebomb]

Focus is not the problem when you don't have the ACADEMIC SKILLS to get into a basic 4 yr U!!

I would think someone looking at a student trying to enroll in a 4yr U with a C average would be thought of as NOT having academic skills. Would they not?

Some kids are brilliant, just lazy......or procrastinators or just dont care. There are many more reasons than not being taught proper academics.......at least IMHO.

[Blake]

If it's not about the money, why do you mention it?

to show that it's not about the money

As far as parents' apathy goes, what do you attribute that to?

well if you have research to show that apathy comes from being educated in a public school system, I'd love to see it.

There are any number of reasons why a parent fails to push their kids in school.
Apathy from being a product of the system seems to be very very low on that list.........unless of course you have that research handy.

[Blake]

Ehhhh, I agree to an extent. College makes you a more well rounded person. All of the basic classes you are required to take besides your major helps with that. At a trade school you are only focusing on one thing usually. I guess it depends.

for the purposes of moving our society forward at a quicker pace, I'd say suggesting trade school to more of these kids is a good idea.

a degree in psychology is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't teach you how to change out a motherboard in a laptop.

[Blake]

Focus is not the problem when you don't have the ACADEMIC SKILLS to get into a basic 4 yr U!!

UTSA has some very lax academic standards, but even then students don't have the skills to get into this university.

They have to go to a CC to gain those skills and reapply after two years. That's not all the parents fault. It is also the fault of the school system for not preparing them.

That's what we get when all they care about is kids passing that piece of exam known as The TAKS.

there's some truth in that, but as you know yourself, discipline is a big problem.

If all the kids behaved like they should, learning would be a breeze...

.....which again, starts in the home.

[peewee's lovechild]

I thought the vast majority of CC students are there because they want to get ahead and it may be less costly and more convenient for them. It is not necessarily because they couldn't enter a 4 yr school.

All right.

You are right. Everything that is wrong is the parents fault and only their fault. The public school system is beyond reproach. Students graduate with such a high knowledge in all subjects that are important for an education.

Everyone goes to a community college only becaue they have lost focus or because they want to save money.

Also, I spent 4 years working as a teacher only to not know what I'm talking about.

[JoeChalupa]

All right.

You are right. Everything that is wrong is the parents fault and only their fault. The public school system is beyond reproach. Students graduate with such a high knowledge in all subjects that are important for an education.

Everyone goes to a community college only becaue they have lost focus or because they want to save money.

Also, I spent 4 years working as a teacher only to not know what I'm talking about.

I never said you don't know what you are talking about nor did I say the PSS was beyond reproach. You are too quick to give in and I don't even have a college degree.

[lebomb]

Also, I spent 4 years working as a teacher only to not know what I'm talking about.

So you are saying you failed miserably and didnt teach the kids a damn thing?

[peewee's lovechild]

I would think someone looking at a student trying to enroll in a 4yr U with a C average would be thought of as NOT having academic skills. Would they not?

Some kids are brilliant, just lazy......or procrastinators or just dont care. There are many more reasons than not being taught proper academics.......at least IMHO.

That's the problem.

Teachers are forced to dumb things down because of two reasons. They are forced to teach curriculum that will only be covered in the TAKS Examn and inclusion (adding ED, Special Ed, etc., students to the classroom) makes you dumb down the content of what you can give the class as a whole.

There are a lot of brilliant students that are not being challenged, and are given an easy out from challenges, that do the bare minimum.

I'm not worried about those kids, they're always going to be smart. I'm worried about the kids that can get somewhere in life if they are pushed a little to succeed. The way things are, they don't get that push and they aren't motivated to do a damn thing. So, they go through life with the same old "do the bare minimum" at ude.

[peewee's lovechild]

there's some truth in that, but as you know yourself, discipline is a big problem.

If all the kids behaved like they should, learning would be a breeze...

.....which again, starts in the home.

And, I agree with you.

But, the discipline that can be corrected at school isn't addressed at school because it's a lot easier for everyone just to round them up and put them in a special school (Alternative) or in ISS.

[jcrod]

Something seems a little fishy there...

hey, she's my baby, what do you expect me to say...she's the devils child.

[lebomb]

That's the problem.

Teachers are forced to dumb things down because of two reasons. They are forced to teach curriculum that will only be covered in the TAKS Examn and inclusion (adding ED, Special Ed, etc., students to the classroom) makes you dumb down the content of what you can give the class as a whole.

There are a lot of brilliant students that are not being challenged, and are given an easy out from challenges, that do the bare minimum.

I'm not worried about those kids, they're always going to be smart. I'm worried about the kids that can get somewhere in life if they are pushed a little to succeed. The way things are, they don't get that push and they aren't motivated to do a damn thing. So, they go through life with the same old "do the bare minimum" at ude.

I completely agree with you on that fact..........I think the schools do try and make things as easy as they can for the kids, instead of pushing them a bit.

[peewee's lovechild]

So you are saying you failed miserably and didnt teach the kids a damn thing?

Yes, but I was made to fail.

Case in point:

When I first started, I demanded my students do daily homework. My principal came down on me and told me that I had to understand that "home life" can be difficult for students and that I was ony allowed to give homework twice a week and that it couldn't be on a Friday because we have to consider that family, nor could it be on a Monday because they would have just started the week.

Then, when I made my tests in the form of short answers instead of multiple choice, all holy broke out. My principal told me that I was being "restrictive" (whatever the that was supposed to mean) and that I was supposed to "give them a chance to get it right." Seriously, that's what I was told.

Then, when it came down to submitting grades, I got into trouble again. Because I had high expectations of my students, about 40% of my students failed (mostly because they just refused to do their homework and what not). My principal called me over the intercom and told me to come to her office immediately.

I was ambushed by the principle, dean of instruction, and the head counselor. It basically came down that I was being to hard on the kids, I had to take into the students family life into consideration, and that by no means should I fail anymore than 10% of my students. They made me change the grades.

It went on and on like that until I just quit the job because I didn't want to be a babysitter anymore.

Like I said, the public school system is broken.

[The Reckoning]

And, I agree with you.

But, the discipline that can be corrected at school isn't addressed at school because it's a lot easier for everyone just to round them up and put them in a special school (Alternative) or in ISS.

I was put in ISS in Kindergarten because I called a kid a fatass.

that kid was huuuuuuuuge.

bas s made me write the alphabet (big letter and little letter) 24 ing times. imagine trying to do that in Kindergarten. total bull .

[peewee's lovechild]

I never said you don't know what you are talking about nor did I say the PSS was beyond reproach. You are too quick to give in and I don't even have a college degree.

No, I just gave up arguing with some one that obviously doesn't know anthing that goes on in public education. And, by that I'm not saying that you don't take interest in your children and their school, just that you don't know jack about the inner workings of the school.

[Blake]

And, I agree with you.

But, the discipline that can be corrected at school isn't addressed at school because it's a lot easier for everyone just to round them up and put them in a special school (Alternative) or ISS.

eh....you and I both know the paperwork involved in putting a kid in ISS.You yourself said that asst principal's kicked the kids back and told you to deal with it....

and if you have a better discipline system than ISS or alt school, feel free to share.

In a perfect world, a simple phone call to parents should end whatever discipline problems a kid is having......but we all know it's rare that it does.

I think parents have come to rely on the public schools being the ones to shoulder the discpline problems which to me is problem #1.

[peewee's lovechild]

I was put in ISS in Kindergarten because I called a kid a fatass.

that kid was huuuuuuuuge.

bas s made me write the alphabet (big letter and little letter) 24 ing times. imagine trying to do that in Kindergarten. total bull .

[lebomb]

Yes, but I was made to fail.

Case in point:

When I first started, I demanded my students do daily homework. My principal came down on me and told me that I had to understand that "home life" can be difficult for students and that I was ony allowed to give homework twice a week and that it couldn't be on a Friday because we have to consider that family, nor could it be on a Monday because they would have just started the week.

Then, when I made my tests in the form of short answers instead of multiple choice, all holy broke out. My principal told me that I was being "restrictive" (whatever the that was supposed to mean) and that I was supposed to "give them a chance to get it right." Seriously, that's what I was told.

Then, when it came down to submitting grades, I got into trouble again. Because I had high expectations of my students, about 40% of my students failed (mostly because they just refused to do their homework and what not). My principal called me over the intercom and told me to come to her office immediately.

I was ambushed by the principle, dean of instruction, and the head counselor. It basically came down that I was being to hard on the kids, I had to take into the students family life into consideration, and that by no means should I fail anymore than 10% of my students. They made me change the grades.

It went on and on like that until I just quit the job because I didn't want to be a babysitter anymore.

Like I said, the public school system is broken.

Damn man, that sucks. I hate to ask what district you taught in.

Yep, seems like they shoved those kids through. The kids will pay for it later for sure.

[Blake]

Yes, but I was made to fail.

Case in point:

When I first started, I demanded my students do daily homework. My principal came down on me and told me that I had to understand that "home life" can be difficult for students and that I was ony allowed to give homework twice a week and that it couldn't be on a Friday because we have to consider that family, nor could it be on a Monday because they would have just started the week.

Then, when I made my tests in the form of short answers instead of multiple choice, all holy broke out. My principal told me that I was being "restrictive" (whatever the that was supposed to mean) and that I was supposed to "give them a chance to get it right." Seriously, that's what I was told.

Then, when it came down to submitting grades, I got into trouble again. Because I had high expectations of my students, about 40% of my students failed (mostly because they just refused to do their homework and what not). My principal called me over the intercom and told me to come to her office immediately.

I was ambushed by the principle, dean of instruction, and the head counselor. It basically came down that I was being to hard on the kids, I had to take into the students family life into consideration, and that by no means should I fail anymore than 10% of my students. They made me change the grades.

It went on and on like that until I just quit the job because I didn't want to be a babysitter anymore.

Like I said, the public school system is broken.

Your school's principal is broken....

although there has been some of that going on in my wife's school.

bottom line is funding. Too many failing kids = less/no aid

[lebomb]

Im not going to lie, when I started at Utsa.......I didnt study worth a damn. I would hang out at frat parties and school work was kind of a secondary thought. Got my grades after my sop re year.........I was almost to academic probation. Something snapped in my mind..........like "HEY, dumbass......do you want to flunk out now?" halfway thru college? Jeopardize your career plans? " or do you want to get your act together?" Well, I made my decision and focused.............I made all A' s and B's through my junior/senior year. My final senior design project was 1 of 3 chosen (out of over 20 students in my class) to recieve an A by a jury architects throughout San Antonio.

I had to get focused.

[leemajors]

the fact that a degree would actually help him find a career.

i disagree with this statement. the only people i know "using" their degrees graduated with engineering degrees from UT.

[lebomb]

i disagree with this statement. the only people i know "using" their degrees graduated with engineering degrees from UT.

LOL, then you dont know many people. I have a degree and everyone that works for me is required to have a bachelors minimum. We wont even look at your resume without the degree. My sister works at UT and she has her masters from Utsa. My buddy I talked about is a professor at a university right now. I have 3 cousins that work on the east coast.....all of their positions required a degree.

*shrugs*

[leemajors]

LOL, then you dont know many people. I have a degree and everyone that works for me is required to have a bachelors minimum. We wont even look at your resume without the degree. My sister works at UT and she has her masters from Utsa. My buddy I talked about is a professor at a university right now. I have 3 cousins that work on the east coast.....all of their positions required a degree.

*shrugs*

i know plenty of people, they just have liberal arts degrees and work at computer companies. degrees are much less important than who you know where, imo.

[mrsmaalox]

My kids have been schooled (private and public) in 4 different states. Texas is #2 on my list so far behind Georgia, but ahead of Washington and Maryland. But 2 things have really stuck out to me here that I didn't see anywhere else. First is that freaking TAKS test! I have witnessed my kids teachers transform from friendly, caring beings into terrified automatons at TAKS time. That can't be good for the kids. Second, there seems to be a mid-level bureaucracy in place that stalls/blocks all communication between the lower level (teachers) and the highest level (the district). These people include counselors, principals, program directors, etc. It's like they are a filter that only feeds the district what makes themselves look good. But it's so widespread it has to be the way the system is set up. What's up with that?

[Blake]

LOL, then you dont know many people. I have a degree and everyone that works for me is required to have a bachelors minimum. We wont even look at your resume without the degree. My sister works at UT and she has her masters from Utsa. My buddy I talked about is a professor at a university right now. I have 3 cousins that work on the east coast.....all of their positions required a degree.

*shrugs*

I'm betting the positions required a degree plus some level of experience.

A liberal arts degree won't get you very far at all unless you want to get into education.

[lebomb]

i know plenty of people, they just have liberal arts degrees and work at computer companies. degrees are much less important than who you know where, imo.

We all know there is more than one way to skin a cat.