Consumer reports "Volt doesn't really make sense"

[Sportcamper]

Well, considering who makes the batteries and the environmental impact that likely occurs, seems to me it's more of a "feel good" thing rather than reality.

Am I wrong?

I completely agree…They should sell well where I live…But eventually GM or Ford is going to get it right & make a practical & durable electric car for the masses…

[boutons_deux]

Even the "successful" Prius had to change batteries for $5K after a few years.

Batteries are the critical weakness. Too bad we're wasting $100Bs in bull wars rather than investing in R&D.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm currently really torn about what to do on a vehicle. The wife is currently in a "gas guzzling" hard loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 67K miles thats paid for. It is a totally luxurious drive, seats 7, has DVD for the grandkids, etc. It gets 14/18mpg. I know gas is going to go up, the question is just how much.

So I'm looking at downsizing her into a smaller crossover that gets 18/25mpg, similar trim level but no DVD and only seats 5, so when the kids are in town with two baby seats it will mean taking two cars when we go out instead of one.

The numbers just don't make sense. She only drives about 12K miles a year. The difference in gas consumed is only about 225 gallons a year, or $75 a month difference in gas at $4 gas.

I'd have to give them my Expedition PLUS around $20,000 to swap.

Thats ing insane. It just makes absolutely no sense financially.

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't like the Volt? No problem, look for alternatives or wait for the Volt 2.0...
I have zero problems with GM investing in this tech though... they're only playing catchup at this point, and as the Prius has shown, there's a big market for good hybrid cars.

I guess you don't know that most of Toyota's electric technology was LEASED from GM many years ago...

[Drachen]

I'm currently really torn about what to do on a vehicle. The wife is currently in a "gas guzzling" hard loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 67K miles thats paid for. It is a totally luxurious drive, seats 7, has DVD for the grandkids, etc. It gets 14/18mpg. I know gas is going to go up, the question is just how much.

So I'm looking at downsizing her into a smaller crossover that gets 18/25mpg, similar trim level but no DVD and only seats 5, so when the kids are in town with two baby seats it will mean taking two cars when we go out instead of one.

The numbers just don't make sense. She only drives about 12K miles a year. The difference in gas consumed is only about 225 gallons a year, or $75 a month difference in gas at $4 gas.

I'd have to give them my Expedition PLUS around $20,000 to swap.

Thats ing insane. It just makes absolutely no sense financially.

Just you and the wife? Get a car. You said yourself that when the kids are in town, it will be two vehicles anyway, so get a car for your daily driver. Spend less up front and spend less on gas.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm currently really torn about what to do on a vehicle. The wife is currently in a "gas guzzling" hard loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 67K miles thats paid for. It is a totally luxurious drive, seats 7, has DVD for the grandkids, etc. It gets 14/18mpg. I know gas is going to go up, the question is just how much.

So I'm looking at downsizing her into a smaller crossover that gets 18/25mpg, similar trim level but no DVD and only seats 5, so when the kids are in town with two baby seats it will mean taking two cars when we go out instead of one.

The numbers just don't make sense. She only drives about 12K miles a year. The difference in gas consumed is only about 225 gallons a year, or $75 a month difference in gas at $4 gas.

I'd have to give them my Expedition PLUS around $20,000 to swap.

Thats ing insane. It just makes absolutely no sense financially.

Then why downsize? Just keep what you have right now. You already made the initial investment.

[Sportcamper]

Cosmic I seriously think that you should save the planet & unload that gas guzzling SUV for about 4k cash to a guy from LA…Next time you drive out to Orange County you can drop it off as well as getting rid of all that guilt…Think about all of the trees that die every day because you wont downsize…

[CosmicCowboy]

Then why downsize? Just keep what you have right now. You already made the initial investment.

Yeah, I'm leaning that way...I think the wife is getting guilted by our California son/DIL...I'm getting myself in "just say no" mode..

[ElNono]

I guess you don't know that most of Toyota's electric technology was LEASED from GM many years ago...

Link? AFAIK Toyota designed and leased their RAV4 EV vehicle in direct compe ion to GM's EV1 back in 96-97. The Prius is entirely a Toyota design.

The only thing that stopped Toyota was GM owning the patents to high-capacity NiMH batteries worldwide, which killed those cars back then.

GM eventually sold the patents to Chevron/Texaco...full story here

IIRC, to this day Toyota still has to pay a patent licensing fee for NiMH batteries.

[Wild Cobra]

Too bad we're wasting $100Bs in bull wars rather than investing in R&D.

Why do you look to government for solutions? This is a job for the free market. Not your Nanny.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm currently really torn about what to do on a vehicle. The wife is currently in a "gas guzzling" hard loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 67K miles thats paid for. It is a totally luxurious drive, seats 7, has DVD for the grandkids, etc. It gets 14/18mpg. I know gas is going to go up, the question is just how much.

So I'm looking at downsizing her into a smaller crossover that gets 18/25mpg, similar trim level but no DVD and only seats 5, so when the kids are in town with two baby seats it will mean taking two cars when we go out instead of one.

The numbers just don't make sense. She only drives about 12K miles a year. The difference in gas consumed is only about 225 gallons a year, or $75 a month difference in gas at $4 gas.

I'd have to give them my Expedition PLUS around $20,000 to swap.

Thats ing insane. It just makes absolutely no sense financially.

Since it's paid for, my thought would be just get a smaller vehicle also.

[boutons_deux]

"This is a job for the free market"

then why isn't the (bogus) free market producing battery/storage solutions?

And will the free market spend $100B on battery technology?

[boutons_deux]

Long-Term Chevrolet Volt: 763 miles, By the Numbers

http://blogs.motortrend.com/long-ter...bers-7077.html

[Drachen]

There is a mean looking Peugot that I wish were sold here. Zoe is the name I think.

BTW, I messed up, it is a Renault, not a Peugot. Commence talking about how crappy Renaults are.

[Sec24Row7]

My new truck gets 12mpg average.

I love it.

[boutons_deux]

There's nothing wrong with Renault and Peugeot cars. They sell well around Europe, not just in France. It's just too hard and expensive to crack the US market.

All car mfrs know how each other builds cars, use the same quality measures, robots, and sub-contractors.

[RandomGuy]

I'm currently really torn about what to do on a vehicle. The wife is currently in a "gas guzzling" hard loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 67K miles thats paid for. It is a totally luxurious drive, seats 7, has DVD for the grandkids, etc. It gets 14/18mpg. I know gas is going to go up, the question is just how much.

So I'm looking at downsizing her into a smaller crossover that gets 18/25mpg, similar trim level but no DVD and only seats 5, so when the kids are in town with two baby seats it will mean taking two cars when we go out instead of one.

The numbers just don't make sense. She only drives about 12K miles a year. The difference in gas consumed is only about 225 gallons a year, or $75 a month difference in gas at $4 gas.

I'd have to give them my Expedition PLUS around $20,000 to swap.

Thats ing insane. It just makes absolutely no sense financially.

I would agree. If it works and is paid for, why bother changing it out?

Anybody who advocates you downsize is probably not considering the amount of energy involved in making a new car. If CO2 is a concern for such a recommendation, then you would be much better off keeping your existing vehicle until it really is falling apart.

The big factor is how much you drive it.

My wife has something that makes rather poor gas mileage, but she doesn't drive much at all, and is responsible for shuttling kids around to/from school, and groceries, so the extra expense is feasible and desirable.

I, on the other hand, regularly put 18-20k per year on my car, so the more expensive gas gets the more sense my little Corolla makes. 37.7mpg on average. Could getabout 10% better if I drove a bit slower, but meh. I could afford to get something bigger/better, but would rather have the $$$ and not let my ego do the shopping.

[CosmicCowboy]

My new truck gets 12mpg average.

I love it.

Yeah, that Raptor is badass. I'd love to "downsize" into one of those...

[CosmicCowboy]

If she REALLY turns up the heat I may propose this:

Keep the Expedition and buy one of THESE:

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/

Natural Gas is gonna be dirt cheap relative to gasoline in Texas for the foreseeable future. Let that be her daily "green" driver and still have the Expedition for rollin.

[boutons_deux]

IBM Working on EV Battery with 500-Mile Range

BM has invented a lithium-air battery technology that makes it possible to drive electric vehicles (EVs) for 500 miles (804 km) per charge.

Lithium-air battery technology is not new, but it does have the potential to achieve unusually high energy densities that rival that of all rechargeable batteries in use today. The reason why batteries with higher energy densities enable EVs to drive further is simply because they are lighter (they have a better gravimetric energy density).

Lighter batteries weigh down the vehicle less, so it requires less energy to drive a given distance. This translates into more energy being available for driving. Each kWh (kilowatt-hour) of energy takes you further.

IBM’s Lithium-Ion Battery Technology

IBM decided to start work on these batteries somewhat recently due to their great potential and discovered that the oxygen in the air is not only reacting with the carbon electrode mentioned, but also with the battery’s electrolyte.

So, physicist Winfried Wilcke and his colleague Alessandro Curioni at IBM’s Zurich research labs in Switzerland used the Blue Gene supercomputer to simulate extremely detailed models of the reactions using alternative electrolytes until they finally found a more suitable one, which is confidential.

Winfried Wilcke said: “We now have one which looks very promising.”

The hope is to have a full-scale battery prototype operation by 2013 and commercial batteries around 2020.


http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/15/...eanTechnica%29

============

Seems like a long way away. I wonder if US govt threw a few $10Bs at it (instead at defending oilco's empire) and brought some nano tech, would it make a difference.

[Nbadan]

Republicans have taken a poor position opposing GM...

Why Republicans are foolishly fighting the Chevrolet Volt

I’ve spotted quite a few Chevrolet Volts on the road over the past year or so, but I can’t recall seeing a single one with a bumper sticker carrying any sort of political message.

That makes me think Volt owners are buying them because the cars are highly fuel efficient, technologically advanced or fit the owners’ driving needs.

But to Republicans on the right, the Volt is an “Obamamobile” that exists only because of the dictates of government planners.
My gearhead friends are aghast. They can’t understand why a political party is demonizing a vehicle that represents some of the best automotive engineering innovation to come out of Detroit in decades.

http://www.mlive.com/business/index....foolishly.html

[TeyshaBlue]

Republicans have taken a poor position opposing GM...

Why Republicans are foolishly fighting the Chevrolet Volt



http://www.mlive.com/business/index....foolishly.html

lol..what a completely unsupported OP. Why did Haglund even bother to fire up the comp for that tripe?

BTW..he's spectacularly y with his meme.
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...192026852.html

[RandomGuy]

It would be interesting to use the recent thread about the new battery manufacturing technique to see what effect that the tech would have on the Volt.

The capacity size and weight of the battery packs can be found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

And one can use the cost per weight/capacity data from that article to estimate the current cost of the Volt's pack and the future cost of that pack, once the new manufacturing technique makes it into production.

[TeyshaBlue]

It would be interesting to use the recent thread about the new battery manufacturing technique to see what effect that the tech would have on the Volt.

The capacity size and weight of the battery packs can be found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

And one can use the cost per weight/capacity data from that article to estimate the current cost of the Volt's pack and the future cost of that pack, once the new manufacturing technique makes it into production.

Word. It's a gamechanger for EV's.

[RandomGuy]

Don't forget about this either:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...in-a-spin.html