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Yes, you are wrong.
Well, considering who makes the batteries and the environmental impact that likely occurs, seems to me it's more of a "feel good" thing rather than reality.
Am I wrong?
Yes, you are wrong.
yes
link
And remember that these are essentially first (or second if you consider the Rav4e and the GM EV1) generation electric vehicles vs. the what, 100th gen internal combustion vehicles.
Very good point, and one that should be noted in the debate. Since electricity in the US is supplied in no small part (51% or so, if memory serves) you are burning coal to power your car. Not the most eco-friendly trade off, if CO2 is a concern for the consumer.
Another interesting thing that one has to consider, is how easy it would be to steal electricity.
All you have to do is find a parking spot near some building with one of those little ubiquitous external outlets and hitch up.
Or, for example, bribing an electrician to bypass your home meter for the one circuit your car happens to charge on.
A ground level apartment with utilities included would also make for a cheap "fill up".
If all you need is an extension cord to do this, yikes.
Yeah we discussed all of this. We talked about how the average person rarely drives more than the range on a daily basis, we talked about how it would be smarter to buy a 12k compact car if you're trying to save money on gas, and pretty much everything that has been brought up.
Spurstalk is nothing if not redundant.
Yeah, but your charging times on 120V are pretty long...so the chances of getting a full 10 hour charge that way approach zero. Even then, using 120v, a full charge on the Volt costs about $1.60 per Car and Driver. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...test-road_test
That's pretty small change to even think about policing.
You lie!
Lithium mining: cleaner than coal, but….
Now don't believe a blogger's compilation of information. How about this:
The Trouble with Lithium; Implications of Future PHEV Production for Lithium Demand; part of the executive summary:
The trouble with Lithium 2; Under the MicroscopeLithium Ion batteries are rapidly becoming the technology of choice for the next generation of Electric Vehicles - Hybrid, Plug In Hybrid and Battery EVs. The automotive industry is committed increasingly to Electrified Vehicles to provide Sustainable Mobility in the next decade. LiIon is the preferred battery technology to power these vehicles.
To achieve required cuts in oil consumption, a significant percentage of the world automobile fleet of 1 billion vehicles will be electrified in the coming decade. Ultimately all production, currently 60 Million vehicles per year, will be replaced with highly electrified vehicles – PHEVs and BEVs.
Analysis of Lithium's geological resource base shows that there is insufficient economically recoverable Lithium available in the Earth's crust to sustain Electric Vehicle manufacture in the volumes required, based solely on LiIon batteries. Depletion rates would exceed current oil depletion rates and switch dependency from one diminishing resource to another. Concentration of supply would create new geopolitical tensions, not reduce them.
Now as green vehicles go, the volt is #12 of 12:
Greenest Vehicles of 2011
Now I had a source reference for the 2/3rds freshwater thing, but closed it. Not going through my history to find it again.
Hmmmm.....
So using up 2/3rds a nations regional freshwater to be the largest supplier of lithium is not a large environmental impact?
I'll bet the fish think otherwise.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 03-01-2011 at 03:21 PM.
Its too bad you can't find that source. Searching your history would likely take less time than the reply you make to this post.
They will probably sell well in California.
Lithium is not depleted when used to make batteries, unlike burning oil. That statement about depletion is spurious. Not sure where the author was going.
I think the "using 2/3 water" was probably a reference to ethanol production, or possibly to that of using water at power plants.
Since 75% of the US population lives within 100 miles of coastline or something like that, I think we can probably invest some in desalinisation, or will be forced to do that.
Bioractor units working prototypes.
Mass. company making diesel with sun, water, CO2
Found that bit. They are taking a slightly different approach, read the full article for details. Not using algae but rather a different bug, with different charactoristics.CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – A Massachusetts biotechnology company says it can produce the fuel that runs Jaguars and jet engines using the same ingredients that make grass grow.
Joule Unlimited has invented a genetically-engineered organism that it says simply secretes diesel fuel or ethanol wherever it finds sunlight, water and carbon dioxide.
The Cambridge, Mass.-based company says it can manipulate the organism to produce the renewable fuels on demand at unprecedented rates, and can do it in facilities large and small at costs comparable to the cheapest fossil fuels.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110228/...s_growing_fuel
Yes, but that 16 kwh capacity only has a 45 mile range at optimum driving conditions, city. After that 45 miles, only gets 35 MPG... Now freeway is worse, at only 2.76 miles/kwh. How many people travel farther than maybe a 40 mile round trip, or any day. The IC engine surely kicks in before the battery is drained.
Lets just look at it the way. The Volt is rated at 2.81 miles per kwh. Many vehicles are rated at 28 MPG, so 10 kwh at 10 cents a kwh is $1.00 vs the price of a gallon of gas.
Does paying $1 per gallon equivalent work for most people when limited to 45 miles the first month, and capacity gets smaller and smaller as the battery life diminishes?
How many people have houses that can charge the thing at any decent rate anyway? What is the efficiency? The ratings above are what the car uses. Howver, it probably costs 12 KWHs or more to get a 10 KWH charge. A daily 12 KWH usage for 5 hours at 220 volts would require an 11 amp draw. Hope you turn your water heater and dryer off while charging, or rewire your house.
Toyota sells the bulk of their cars in the US. GM produces and sells cars in other markets as well. Car makers compete globally.
There is still a pretty big imbalance.
I can, but is it that important to prove? If my integrity isn't good enough for you, then I don't give a damn anyway. I will humor you and look, and add edit here.
---add edit---
The statement comes from Luka Erceg, Simbol Mining's president and co-founder. He is attempting to develop methods that are cost effective and environmentally friendly to lithium extraction.
Here is one link:
Mining lithium from geothermal 'lemonade'
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 03-01-2011 at 03:42 PM.
I read about them about 1 year ago. Love this company, they are even building their demo plant in Texas.
Bioractor units working prototypes.
Mass. company making diesel with sun, water, CO2
Found that bit. They are taking a slightly different approach, read the full article for details. Not using algae but rather a different bug, with different charactoristics.
Just set them up next to a coal plant, but a hose from the smoke stack to one of these setups, and use the CO2 from that.(yes I know its not that simple, but if the coal industry ever decides to implement the "clean coal" systems that they are advertising there would be a market for the sequestered CO2)
Lastly, and something I found to be PHENOMENAL is that this system can use fresh water, salt water, AND brackish water (thereby creating something to do with the brackish water left after desalination).
What imbalance?
Don't like the Volt? No problem, look for alternatives or wait for the Volt 2.0...
I have zero problems with GM investing in this tech though... they're only playing catchup at this point, and as the Prius has shown, there's a big market for good hybrid cars.
There is a mean looking Peugot that I wish were sold here. Zoe is the name I think.
Yes it is and no your integrity is not good enough.
There is no thing as a desirable Peugot.
I'll bet it would fail US crash test standards.
LOL...There is no thing as a desirable Peugot.
I completely agree.
They used to make a good bicycle. I wonder if they still do?
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