TimVP gets it...he sees the grey area too.
I am reading you guys posts...ya'll just aren't reading mine...I know they gave up the place holder...I know he was en led to a raise...What I see nothing to indicate...is that he was en led to that raise after the team declined his option...and I fail to see what right they could have renounced that would have impacted is EB status...
There is no right associated with EB status, or Bird Status, to renounce after 1 season with the team...there is no Pre, Early, Early Bird right....
What I am waiting for someone to point out...is what it(alleged renouncement last season) has to do with Early Bird Rights...it doesn't...it has nothing to do with them...So there is no loophole there that could have cost us his EB status...and that's a good thing...it's just one I am trying to close off...and getting quite a bit of opposition from my boardmates in my attempt to do so.
You know whats ed up? The people in here arguing aren't the new ones who havne't been through several offseasons where everything in the CBA is disected in here, it's the old vets who should know this stuff. It's like we get some sick ing high off of arguing about the CBA.
Yeah but this doesn't happen every season...not like this. We don't bust guys down to the min from 5 million every season...
When you decline to use an option or use an option to cancel a contract you are only giving up the terms of that contract for the next season, not the player's rights. The option and the rights are separate.
So the Spurs are in good shape and I'm going to get toasted.
The renouncing has nothing to do with EB. They didn't have his EB last year because he hadn't been here two years so that whole crap about they lose it for one year, blah blah didn't really apply in this situation.
He was a Non-Bird free agent after the Spurs declined the team option last summer. The Spurs renounced him to get rid of his 120% placeholder and get under the cap. And then re-signed him to a two year contract with the second year as a player option. Now he declined the player option and he's become an Early Bird free agent because he's been here for 2 years.
That's it.
LMAO...that's the point I am trying to make...you can't renounce early bird rights after 1 season because you don't have them...the June 30th thing has nothing to do with it.
But that still leaves the question...why is Ludden(I think) saying he has to be signed out of the MLE...doesn't Ludden get his info straight from the Spurs?
Ludden was the guy that said we would have more leverage after 03 thanks to a little known loophole(which I now assume was the TO on Ferry's contract)...
Well, I'm assuming Ludden writes his own articles and may have just assumed that portion of things.
I hope you're right...but no one on the board caught that thing with Ferry...
Yeah, that's what I've been saying since last night.LMAO...that's the point I am trying to make...you can't renounce early bird rights after 1 season because you don't have them...the June 30th thing has nothing to do with it.
I haven't found a Ludden article that says that. Can you find it? I actually have emails into some people would really know if they have Horry's EB; so I'll let you know if/when I hear back. And yes, Ludden normally gets info from the Spurs but he's not infallible in this area.But that still leaves the question...why is Ludden(I think) saying he has to be signed out of the MLE...doesn't Ludden get his info straight from the Spurs?
It was never public knowledge that there was more to Ferry's contract (most places had it listed as over) so that's where all that mix up happened (which was a good thing). NBA teams never release the actual terms of contracts. So actually everything we are going on is strictly hearsay. It's just once it gets printed once, it's spreads like wildfire on the net, whether it's correct or not.Ludden was the guy that said we would have more leverage after 03 thanks to a little known loophole(which I now assume was the TO on Ferry's contract)...
Hopefully you are right Kori but I am with the understanding that they don't have EB rights to Horry.
That's not the point. The point is that his being renounced last summer does not have an impact on his Early Bird rights this summer. That's been the issue all along.
The "June 30 thing" was important because until June 30 had passed the Spurs could not sign Horry to a new contract as if they had his Early Bird rights this summer.
it, this is madness.
Well did you see the CBA passage that spurster quoted in this thread? It's pretty clear that since Horry has been here 2 seasons that the Spurs have EB.
Your wish is my command, my lady.
I am not 100% certain it was a Ludden article...but I am certain it was one written by an express news writer...I'll look for it.
There you go....I knew I read it at some point.
That looks like he's quoting the horse if you ask me...
Renouncing a player would mean nothing if it didn't cost you the ability to sign a player as if they had prior tenure with your team for a certain period. In the NBA that time is until the June 30th after the season passes.
Effectively it meant very little for him since he'd been with the team only a season prior, but if he had been with the team 2 or more seasons it would've mattered, at least for the contract he signed last summer.
So the Spurs lost Horry's prior tenure for a season and now since it's July 1st, they have that back and he's an Early Bird free agent as of today.
Where I was coming from earlier...it was alluded by some that his raise rights(after 1 season or what ever) are somehow tied into his early bird rights, they aren't...and that we basically lost the first years claim to his early bird rights by renouncing him last summer...when in fact that was never the case.The "June 30 thing" was important because until June 30 had passed the Spurs could not sign Horry to a new contract as if they had his Early Bird rights this summer.
it, this is madness.
Off topic (almost): I think they should get Scola to sign for the $1.6M.
See that's where I don't agree with you....the only way they could ever lose bird rights or early bird rights, is by renouncing them the season in which they could go into effect...Show me how it could happen otherwise...Illustrate your point.
And there was a penalty at the time for renouncing his rights...they might have lost him that season because they couldn't give him a raise over his previous seasons contract...that was the penalty.
It's not a permanent loss but it is a loss until July 1st after that season ends.
If you had a player who had been with you 3 years and you renounced them, then you wouldn't have their Bird Rights until July 1st after that following season ended. (assuming, of course, that they re-signed with you for a 4th year).
With a 2 million dollar buyout? Good ing luck!
True, but since Horry had only been here one year when they renounced him, the fact that they had to wait until the following July1 (now) didn't mean a thing.It's not a permanent loss but it is a loss until July 1st after that season ends.
If you had a player who had been with you 3 years and you renounced them, then you wouldn't have their Bird Rights until July 1st after that following season ended. (assuming, of course, that they re-signed with you for a 4th year).
Isn't the LLE going to go up? And can't the Spurs also contribute something like 350K(or more) to his buyout?
Then you are wrong. The rule is rather clear. It is put in place to prevent teams from signing other teams' free agents first before they sign their own.
It didn't mean a thing except that whottt didn't know what he was attempting to discuss.
Why? He doesn't pay it all up front. He can make payments like Manu did if Tau agrees to it.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
