War-

[Yonivore]

But they're actions are ing idiotic. If they want to rid themselves of the group, then attack the group do not attack the people of Lebanon.

The group is in Lebanon. And, by all objective accounts, Israel is doing just as you suggest; hitting strategic Hezbullah target and supply routes.

Is Hezbollah any weaker today after days and days of bombing? No.

Can you support that claim? No.

Are there people in Lebanon now who will be less sympathetic to the Israeli situation in the future? yes.

I suspect that the weinies that let Hezbullah run all over them will temper their anger when Hezbullah is gone and Israel withdraws.

Funny. This is kind of like Operation Lebanese Freedom! They're liberating the Lebanese from Hezbullah...and, by proxy, Syria and Iran.

There are also people that are pissed at Hezbollah, but for the most part those are the exact same people that were pissed off at them last week.

I hope they have adequate shelter.

If Israel really wants to stop this problem, they'd go after Syria. But the fact is they're too scared of the consequences of an attack on Syria. So instead they take a half ass measure of attacking Lebanon.

I don't think it's Israeli fear that is stopping them. Plus, you'd have the international idiot squad, who apparently can't connect dots (i.e. Iraq and al Qaeda), saying that Israel attacked Syria and Iran without provocation.

They shut down the airport to stop the soldiers from being taken to Iran? Did they forget that the entire eastern border of Lebanon is open to Syria? Does anyone with half a brain really think that if Hezbollah wants to get those soldiers to Iran the bombing of a bridge on a highway or the airport is going to stop them? It is such a crock of it amazes me people even try to sell it.

Well, if you'd been following Israel's statements you'd also have learned they were shutting down re-supply routes as well. It was part of a blockade.

And, yes, it might keep them from moving the kidnapped soldiers. It's a relatively short border. Infrared is pretty good at picking up in the middle of no man's land. We sell them a lot of neat technology.

And lets not act as though there is a state of peace in the region and these groups broke it with their acts. They all consider themselves to be in a constant state of war.

Oh yeah, that explains Israels complete withdrawal from the West Bank six years ago and their complete withdraw from Gaza this year. Damn, can't fool them Palestians or Hezbullahans (?) into thinking you really want peace, now can you?

You know Manny, Only Hamas and Hezbullah have said it is a constant state of war.

And war involves acts like this. If Hezbollah wants to attack the Iraeli Army over a border dispute, thats not terrorism.

What border dispute, Israel withdrew to the agreed border.

Thats ing war. I don't understand what you guys expect from people who are obviously pretty damn pissed off at the current situation. They're not going to roll over and give into Israels demands and no amount of rockets from a ing helicopter is going to change that.

What demands did the Israelis make? Oh yeah...leave us alone and quit trying to annihilate us. Yeah, that'd piss me off too.

I truly hope Israel obliterates them this time. It's obvious we're not going to stop them.

[MannyIsGod]

I said I wasn't going to respond to him, and I'm not, but sometimes it's so damn hard.

[Yonivore]

I heard someone say something that I too wondered about, in the news.

How come the security council could come up with a resolution in such
a short time on Israel, but cant on N. Korea or Iran after months and
months?

They have them pre-prepared in Microsoft Word. They just have to merge the appropriate variables and voila! Instant condemnation of Israel.

[Yonivore]

I said I wasn't going to respond to him, and I'm not, but sometimes it's so damn hard.

Now, now...it's only been a day. Do you have addiction issues?

[xrayzebra]

Now, now...it's only been a day. Do you have addiction issues?

Yoni, hate to say it, but think all of us, including you must have the
addiction issue when it comes to politics......

[Yonivore]

Yoni, hate to say it, but think all of us, including you must have the
addiction issue when it comes to politics......

No, with the exception of Nbadan, who has some entertainment value, I've left those on ignore that I put on ignore.

If Manny doesn't want to respond to my posts, all he has to do is use the ignore feature.

[scott]

The group is in Lebanon.

You are suggesting Lebanon = Hezbollah? Want to check your facts before I correct you?

[Yonivore]

You are suggesting Lebanon = Hezbollah? Want to check your facts before I correct you?

No, I wasn't suggesting that.

I was stating the fact that Hezbullah is entrenched in Lebanon...including their government. So, if you're going to have a war with Hezbullah, you're going to have to either wait for them to come to you or go to Lebanon.

[MannyIsGod]

You are suggesting Lebanon = Hezbollah? Want to check your facts before I correct you?

He misses the idea that attacking strategic assests in Lebanon hurts the Labanese but not Hezbollah.

[Yonivore]

He misses the idea that attacking strategic assests in Lebanon hurts the Labanese but not Hezbollah.

Okay, since he's not talking to me...ask him how striking strategic Hezbullah targets in Lebanon doesn't hurt them?

[Yonivore]

Oh, and tell Manny that Lebanon may actually be in favor of using the Israeli offensive to help them take control of the South Lebanon.

The Washington Post reports that the Israeli attacks on Hezbollah positions in Lebanon have caused the Lebanese government to consider efforts to disarm Hezbollah and gain control over the southern part of the country, currently dominated by the Iranian-supported terrorist group:

[I]n the wake of Syria's withdrawal of its troops from Lebanon in 2005, the disarmament of Hezbollah has emerged as one of the foremost issues in Lebanese politics. Since the fighting with Israel started Wednesday, calls for Hezbollah to relinquish its weapons have gathered urgency. The violence began when Hezbollah fighters captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border incursion, followed by an Israeli attack on roads, bridges, power stations and airports.

Lebanese critics as well as allies of Hezbollah insist that the Israeli response was disproportionate. But at the same time, in meetings Thursday, Lebanese officials began to lay the groundwork for an extension of government control to southern Lebanon.

According to most experts, the democratically elected Lebanese government lacks the firepower to take on the much better armed Hezbollah forces. However, if the Israelis can do enough damage to Hezobollah, the terrorist group might be sufficiently weakened to enable the government to disarm it and take control of the Lebanese-Israeli border in the aftermath of an Israeli attack. Although the anti-Hezbollah Lebanese probably have little love for the Israelis, the Christians and moderate Muslims who control the government are unlikely to use the border as a staging ground for rocket attacks into Israel, as Hezbollah has been doing. Indeed, many Lebanese factions, particularly various Christian and Druze groups, have cooperated with the Israelis in the past when it was in their interest to do so.

Hopefully, this scenario, or something like it is the Israeli objective. The worst outcome would be for the Israelis to stop after inflicting only minor damage on Hezbollah. This would subject Israel to international condemnation and increase Hezbollah's prestige for "standing up" to Israel, while producing few benefits for either Israelis or Lebanese. Obviously, a full-fledged campaign to crush Hezbollah would lead to greater casualties in the short run than a more "proportionate" retaliation. But it is likely to save numerous lives in the long run on both sides of the border. It could also help the Lebanese to consolidate their still-fragile democracy by eliminating the most serious domestic threat to it.

[cherylsteele]

Are we witnessing or have already witnessed the begining of WW3?

[Yonivore]

Are we witnessing or have already witnessed the begining of WW3?

Just another front in World War IV.

[Yonivore]

[gtownspur]

I said I wasn't going to respond to him, and I'm not, but sometimes it's so damn hard.

Are you talking to yourself?

Are you going nuts?

[Yonivore]

Are you talking to yourself?

Are you going nuts?

Going?

[gtownspur]

I don't know what it is. In light of all the reports coming in defense of the airstrikes to the Beirut airport, and other attacks on Lebanon, Manny is still stuck on his first post, that Israel is ing up by bombing Lebanon.

And even articles like the Washington post shed new light into this and Manny will still maintain that he's right on this, and that Israel should go back to dealing with Hezbollah and Hamas like it did earlier, what in good did it do.

And if you were to task manny on what a better solution would be, he'd suggest to give into all their demands. Then you'd only have to point out that What the palestinian people want is to drive jews into the sea, and he'll go back and give you some in history lesson and dodge the whole issue.

well his in conclusion is pretty simple, LEt the World stop helping out Israel, and sit and watch Jews get annhilated. But he wont say that right out. He'll come out with Red herrings to deflect from the issue that is at hand. And that is it's always the Palestinians who break the peace, and screw this peace process, and Israel cannot go back to the OSlo accords way of ing the Mid East up.

Sometimes in life, not everything is black and white, and manny is right on this certain thing. But what he completely ignores is the fact that every resource has been exhausted to deal with the Palestinian problem and we here in america, and israel are fed up. Isreal has to put it's foot down.

Now the expected response from Manny will be of how "Right wingers only see the world through right and wrong, and we should try diplomacy...blah blah blah"

Too bad the keeps forgetting after every one of his nonsense post that what he's suggested has been done and failed.

In the end, he brings nothing new to the table.

[E20]

I don't know what it is. In light of all the reports coming in defense of the airstrikes to the Beirut airport, and other attacks on Lebanon, Manny is still stuck on his first post, that Israel is ing up by bombing Lebanon.

And even articles like the Washington post shed new light into this and Manny will still maintain that he's right on this, and that Israel should go back to dealing with Hezbollah and Hamas like it did earlier, what in good did it do.

And if you were to task manny on what a better solution would be, he'd suggest to give into all their demands. Then you'd only have to point out that What the palestinian people want is to drive jews into the sea, and he'll go back and give you some in history lesson and dodge the whole issue.

well his in conclusion is pretty simple, LEt the World stop helping out Israel, and sit and watch Jews get annhilated. But he wont say that right out. He'll come out with Red herrings to deflect from the issue that is at hand. And that is it's always the Palestinians who break the peace, and screw this peace process, and Israel cannot go back to the OSlo accords way of ing the Mid East up.

Sometimes in life, not everything is black and white, and manny is right on this certain thing. But what he completely ignores is the fact that every resource has been exhausted to deal with the Palestinian problem and we here in america, and israel are fed up. Isreal has to put it's foot down.

Now the expected response from Manny will be of how "Right wingers only see the world through right and wrong, and we should try diplomacy...blah blah blah"

Too bad the keeps forgetting after every one of his nonsense post that what he's suggested has been done and failed.

In the end, he brings nothing new to the table.

Gtownspur always gives me a good laugh. Har Har Har

[gtownspur]

Gtownspur always gives me a good laugh. Har Har Har

Feeling like a little man aren't you?

I guess if you are speachless and can't respond with anything you can always go back to the "that was funny" bull .

The fact is you puny , is that what i've stated hit's a little to close to home to you. It must drive you mad that you must always be in denial to support your way of thought.

Let's stop ing around and admit it. The whole ing world knows the palestinians aren't capable of taking care of a pet rock much with out pulverizing it if it had a little scent of zionism in it. How the can they be trusted to respect a goddamn treaty?

[Yonivore]

Well, we may find out if Syria has all of Saddam's weapons after all.

Syria made its official entry into the war breaking out between Israel and Hezbollah, pledging to come to the aid of Hezbollah and Lebanon if necessary to ensure Israel's defeat. However, the statement did not come from Bashar Assad, the ostensible leader of Syria, but from a meeting of the Ba'athist party's power brokers:

Syria will support Hizbollah and Lebanon against Israel's attacks on the country, the ruling Baath Party said on Friday, defying the Jewish state and its chief ally Washington.

"The Syrian people are ready to extend full support to the Lebanese people and their heroic resistance to remain steadfast and confront the barbaric Israeli aggression and its crimes," said a communiqu¿ from the party's national command issued after a meeting.

It said Israel and the United States "are trying to wipe out Arab resistance in every land under occupation" and that President Bashar al-Assad was aware of the seriousness of the situation in the region.

The national command is the highest echelon of the Baath Party, which has been in power since 1963. The party considers the issue of Arab rights and regaining land occupied by Israel central to its legitimacy.

Assad, who is shaped by his late father's lifetime of struggle with Israel, was not at the meeting.

The Ba'ath Party left the head of state out of the loop while it crafted this statement? One has to wonder what task so occupied Assad that the war breaking out on his border got shifted to a lower priority.

In the meantime, Reuters reports that Syria feels that this crisis will make it a player in Middle East politics again. The world has its attention fixed on Syria and Iran, thanks to its connections to Hezbollah. Syria might find all of the attention flattering now, but if it decides to intervene on behalf of their Hezbollah proxies, the attention they receive will be a whole lot more explosive. IAF jets buzzed Assad's house earlier; next time, they'll leave a 500-lb calling card.

By that time, however, it may not matter. This news makes it appear that Assad may have gotten shut out of the decision-making process. The Ba'ath Party may not trust Assad in a shooting war -- and that may indicate that Baby Assad never did have his hands on the levers of power.

[boutons_]

Read the article I posted "Kidnapping of Democracy" (not that Syria is one), but the idea is the same. Violent minorities, even in M/E democracies manage to exort all the control and string-pulling as if they were majorities. Moderates go against them? They get killed.

It's confusing. Wasn't Saddam's Baathist party Sunni?

Syria, Iran, and Hizbollah Shi'ite?

The Syrian Baathists, Sunnis?, are commtting to support the Shiite Hizbollah?

Whatever, the M/E is ed up more than ever, and dubya/ head's huge, crazy gamble, with US military lives, in Iraq has been lost.

[E20]

Read the article I posted "Kidnapping of Democracy" (not that Syria is one), but the idea is the same. Violent minorities, even in M/E democracies manage to exort all the control and string-pulling as if they were majorities. Moderates go against them? They get killed.

It's confusing. Wasn't Saddam's Baathist party Sunni?

Syria, Iran, and Hizbollah Shi'ite?

The Syrian Baathists, Sunnis?, are commtting to support the Shiite Hizbollah?

Whatever, the M/E is ed up more than ever, and dubya/ head's huge, crazy gamble, with US military lives, in Iraq has been lost.

IMO and I think a lot of people think the sameway is that everything in the ME is politically driven. It's not about Shia's or Sunni's it's all about politics, land and power.

[E20]

IMO and I think a lot of people think the sameway is that everything in the ME is politically driven. It's not about Shia's or Sunni's or religious possesions it's all about politics, land and power.

[AFE7FATMAN]

Isn't History fun, if we could only learn from it.

On Sept. 30, 1985 four minor Soviet officials were kidnapped in Beirut and on Oct. 2 one was murdered. It was unclear who the kidnappers were or where the hostages had been taken.

The Soviet Union officially stated that it would hold not just the terroists responsible but also all those who could have stopped the criminal action but did not do everything possible to this effect.

Soviet official statements also emphasized that this was an evil deed for which there can be no forgiveness Within days, Syrian, Druze, Palestinian and Shiite militias began combing Beirut and Sidon, rounding up dozens of people for searches and interrogations.

The Syrian chief of military intelligence arrived in Beirut to master mind the operation personally.

The Iranian government sent three officials to help. On Oct. 30--exacctly one month after the kidnapping--the kidnappers had been identified and the hostages located and released.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in Beirut, the American CIA station chief, William Buckley, was being tortured to death while the National Security Council sold arms to the Iranians." (The WSJ Aug 10th 1989 page A-14 "Make Hostages Lives the Second Goal")

Todays War caused by the kidnapping of the soldiers was a test of the new PM of Israel and I fear that the Hezbollah and their Big Brother in Iran have gotten in deeper than they thought.

I hope the summitt will put this war back to the stalemate it was. For this
to happen Bush& Co better agree to have Russia join the WTO.

[velik_m]

I heard someone say something that I too wondered about, in the news. How come the security council could come up with a resolution in such a short time on Israel, but cant on N. Korea or Iran after months and
months.

North Korea and Iran are not bombing their neighbouring countries.

Israel is overreacting. This is the same kind of overkill nazis used in ww2 to fight what they called "bandits" (i suspect they would be terrorists in today's lingo) and we called Liberation Front. As long as collateral damage wasn't germans anything goes.