mavs offer to josh extention....

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Way to follow up with nothing.

By the way, locked threads don't lie:

I own you.

OHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!


Amare sucker just got x 1,000,000,000!!!!!!!

Classic bandwagon fan.

[ATX Spur]

So what if Howard screwed up in the finals. Ginobili didn't exactly save game 7 vs. the Mavs. Everyone makes mistakes. Howard is a tough-nosed and professional kid who has a solid all-around game and plays GREAT defense. Even if he has plateaud (which I seriously doubt), he's easily the second best player on the Western Conference Champion Dallas Mavericks and was a huge piece of that series. The man just wants his due. If Joe Johnson can get $15+ mil a year, I gotta think Howard deserves at least $10 mil, and he'll get it whether that's this year, next as an RFA, or hopefully in '08 to the Spurs.

As far as the Diaw comparison, he's got howard beat in in the assist and maybe rebounding categories. But, Howard has a more consistent 3pt shot, is a better on-the-ball defender, and can take his man off the dribble on offense. I think Diaw is good, but the Suns' system has been known to inflate performance statistics. I'd still take Howard and am pissed off that we passed on him in 2003.

The Finals wasn't the only time Howard called a timeout when his team didn't have anymore. See: Wake Forest critical ACC games. If he hasn't reached his plateau, he's not far off. He hasn't exhibited the intelligence that it takes to add another dimension to his game. He'll continue to be gritty and athletic for a few years if he avoids injury, and that's about it.

And Diaw doesn't just have Howard beat in the assist and rebound categories. He averaged over three times the number of assists Howard did last season. Over twice as many blocks. Howard can take his man off the dribble better, as you say correctly, but Diaw mostly plays a position where he doesn't have to take his man off the dribble. Playing in the Suns' offense only inflates your stats inasmuch as the tempo gives you more offensive possesions per game. In that department, they're not that much more ahead of Dallas.

Diaw is longer and taller and much more versatile. He's got international experience. Diaw over Howard all week, and twice on Sundays.

[mavsfan1000]

The best way of improving how the suns inflate stats by seeing how Joe Johnson is doing this year with the Hawks. He's not close to the player he was in Phoenix. The running system really benefits his game rather than the halfcourt Hawks team. I would take Howard over Diaw as well. Diaw only beats Howard in the rebounding category because he is playing CENTER while Howard is playing SF. It's a lot easier to get high rebounding numbers when you play center. Howard has better range, better slashing ability, and a better rebounder.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I hope Cuban lowballs Josh Howard.. and then has to overpay him..nothing like a cap strapped team to trying get better..

[Obstructed_View]

The best way of improving how the suns inflate stats by seeing how Joe Johnson is doing this year with the Hawks.

Yeah. 17 points and 3.5 assists with the Suns dropped to a measley 20 points and 6.5 assists in Atlanta.

Maybe Joe averaged three points and 3 assists in that extra MINUTE he played per game in Atlanta.

[mavsfan1000]

Joe Johnson was the go to guy in Atlanta. It shows your intelligence by only listing his point average and assist average. His outside shooting went from like 47% to like 33%. That is all that needs to be said on the difference between Phoenix and Atlanta.

[ATX Spur]

Joe Johnson was the go to guy in Atlanta. It shows your intelligence by only listing his point average and assist average. His outside shooting went from like 47% to like 33%. That is all that needs to be said on the difference between Phoenix and Atlanta.

Phoenix is a much better team than Atlanta. His point and assist totals would be even higher if he had better teammates and a clear game plan.

[mavs>spurs2]

Joe Johnson is good....I just don't think he's comfortable being the number one option. He needs teammates before his talent will really show.

[mavsfan1000]

Phoenix is a much better team than Atlanta. His point and assist totals would be even higher if he had better teammates and a clear game plan.

Exactly. That's what I was saying about Diaw getting better because he was on a better team. Phoenix also maximizes his rebounding numbers by putting him at center. His rebound stats get better at the price of the teams rebounding numbers. Dallas is one of the best rebounding teams and Phoenix one of the worst. Josh Howard>Diaw.

[ATX Spur]

Joe Johnson was the go to guy in Atlanta. It shows your intelligence by only listing his point average and assist average. His outside shooting went from like 47% to like 33%. That is all that needs to be said on the difference between Phoenix and Atlanta.

By the way, Johnson's field goal percentage was 45 percent in Atlanta this last season. But his 3pt% did go down, which makes it more poignant that he averaged more points last season.

[ATX Spur]

Exactly. That's what I was saying about Diaw getting better because he was on a better team. Phoenix also maximizes his rebounding numbers by putting him at center. His rebound stats get better at the price of the teams rebounding numbers. Dallas is one of the best rebounding teams and Phoenix one of the worst. Josh Howard>Diaw.

I agree with you on all these points. I just don't make the leap from that to Howard being better than Diaw.

[mavsfan1000]

Howard is Dallas's second best player and a key to the defense for them. He needs Dirk like Diaw needs Nash and Marion but Diaw is not as effective at the SF position. He is exploiting defenses by being playing at center but he hurts with his lack of size on defense and rebounding. Exchange Howard with Diaw and the Suns are better off. They would improve in defense and outside shooting with Howard while staying the same in rebounding. Howard won't be able to play center like Diaw could and that is the only difference. Diaw can't play shooting guard effectively though because of his lack of shooting skills. A lineup of Amare, Marion, Josh Howard, Bell, and Nash would be scary.

[mavs>spurs2]

How is it that Howard is the 2nd best player on a team that reaches the finals....while Diaw is top 5 on a team that doesnt, and some people still say Diaw is better than Howard?

[Bruno]

Before doing some Diaw/Howard comparaison, people shouldn't forget that Diaw is 2 years younger than Howard and has had a less linear past.
Even if Howard is maybe the better player for the moment, I take Diaw over him because he has more upside and is way more talented.

[ATX Spur]

Before doing some Diaw/Howard comparaison, people shouldn't forget that Diaw is 2 years younger than Howard and has had a less linear past.
Even if Howard is maybe the better player for the moment, I take Diaw over him because he has more upside and is way more talented.

Exactly. Can't be said any simpler.

[mavsfan1000]

Anyone watch Howard's game tonight? Man he was a beast. He averaged like a point a minutes. I expect him to have a huge year. Diaw won't get any better until he can take his game outside.

[z0sa]

Howard is an outside shooter now? I think not

[mavsfan1000]

Howard is an outside shooter now? I think not

He's not a pure shooter but if you leave him open he will burn you. You should know from experience. He uses his outside shot to give him space to attack the inside.

[AFBlue]

Howard is an outside shooter now? I think not

I wouldn't say he's an outside shooter, but when he does shoot three-pointers he's pretty accurate (43% last season).

Unlike Diaw who shot about 25% on the season when he took his three pointers.

[Obstructed_View]

Joe Johnson was the go to guy in Atlanta. It shows your intelligence by only listing his point average and assist average. His outside shooting went from like 47% to like 33%. That is all that needs to be said on the difference between Phoenix and Atlanta.

So his three point average went down without Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, Quentin Richardson and Amare Stoudamire? Wow, yeah. Good point. As you said, he's the go to guy. He's not getting wide open looks because he doesn't have three all-stars on his team anymore.

But that isn't the point. You specifically said to look at Joe Johnson to see how being on the Suns inflates your stats. Looking at his point and assist average goes right to the heart of what you said and proves it completely wrong. Were you talking about his height and weight?

Is there a Mavs fan anywhere that isn't completely stupid?

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah when you're the 3rd option on offense compared to being to the go to guy you are going to average more points. Being on a better team makes you a BETTER PLAYER based on percentages and efficiency while being on a worse team and being the go to player helps your point totals. You seem to really focus on point totals rather than the efficiency of that player. The only way to measure inflation is if you are the go to guy on both teams. The one on the sorry team and the one on the new team. Amare Stoudemire is the perfect example of that. The suns were a sorry team without Nash and Amare's stats were good but once he got Nash his stats got inflated with him being the go to guy on that team also.

I wasn't specific enough before to show the inflation but Diaw was the third option last year on the high flying suns team and his stats got inflated.

[shaggy17]

Anyone watch Howard's game tonight? Man he was a beast. He averaged like a point a minutes. I expect him to have a huge year. Diaw won't get any better until he can take his game outside.

As long as he doesnt mentor Chris Webber and his timeouts anymore he should have an amazing season.

[baseline bum]

Let me get this straight: Cuban tried to get Howard to sign a deal starting at $4.58 million for the first season, and people wonder how Howard can be pissed? That's a ridiculous lowball. Offering $6 million starting would be a ridiculous lowball. Anything less than $7.5 million starting for Howard is below his market value. We're talking about one of the most versitale players in the league. I'd kill to have him on the Spurs, and you can bet Popovich will be ready to throw him a huge deal in 2008 if Dallas manages to screw things up with him.

[mavs>spurs2]

Don't worry it will all get straightened out....Cuban will give him the deal he deserves and Josh will have an awesome season.

[ATX Spur]

Let me get this straight: Cuban tried to get Howard to sign a deal starting at $4.58 million for the first season, and people wonder how Howard can be pissed? That's a ridiculous lowball. Offering $6 million starting would be a ridiculous lowball. Anything less than $7.5 million starting for Howard is below his market value. We're talking about one of the most versitale players in the league. I'd kill to have him on the Spurs, and you can bet Popovich will be ready to throw him a huge deal in 2008 if Dallas manages to screw things up with him.

Howard on the Spurs would turn Pop's hair white if it wasn't like that already.