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  1. #101
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    excuse me? so you don't agree with the opinion of teammates who played with Michael Jordan on a daily basis and experienced firsthand the good & bad of MJ in a discussion of Jordan's treatment of said teammates? what the ? wouldn't they have an infinitely better grasp of the situation than you?

  2. #102
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    In a world where Michael Jordan didn't exist, I'd love to see John Paxson or Steve Kerr interview for a GM job.
    Or Will Perdue even getting an analyst job. Or people pursuing players that used to play for the Bulls, such as Scott Williams and Horace Grant so that they can have players on their roster with "Championship Experience"

  3. #103
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    excuse me? so you don't agree with the opinion of teammates who played with Michael Jordan on a daily basis and experienced firsthand the good & bad of MJ in a discussion of Jordan's treatment of said teammates? what the ? wouldn't they have an infinitely better grasp of the situation than you?
    By "they" I meant the other observers.
    I have no idea what Jordan's teammates said, but the video basically said that he was a jerk.

  4. #104
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    How is it that he DIDN'T make his teammates better??? He won them multiple rings. If it wasn't for the sole fact of playing alongside Jordan, we would not know or care about any of those players, with the exception of Pippen. If anything, its BECAUSE of Jordan that they got any serious kind of recognition or that anyone cares who they were.
    Recognition != Better player, I don't know where you got that from.

  5. #105
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    Recognition != Better player, I don't know where you got that from.
    Recognition and championship experience is what made people even bother pursuing many of those ty players. Recognition is what makes us actually know who the most of those players are. I promise that if it wasnt for the Bulls, no one here would know who the Craig Hodges, Will Perdue, Steve Kerr, and about 80% of the other heads that played over there. The only quality players he really had was Pippen, Oakley (who was not there in the championship years), Cartwright, Grant, and Kukoc. However, the only guy you would actually depend on for a quality game on a nightly basis, was Pippen.

  6. #106
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    In a world where Michael Jordan didn't exist, I'd love to see John Paxson or Steve Kerr interview for a GM job.

    "okay next candidate.....John Paxson.....who the is that???"
    Being a GM = being a better player how?
    Led them to a more successful career, yeah. Better player? No.

  7. #107
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    Recognition != Better player, I don't know where you got that from.
    I bet if you googled...you would find quite a few of MJ's former teammates who said he made them better. I have heard Steve Kerr say it numerous times.

  8. #108
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Recognition != Better player, I don't know where you got that from.
    i guess getting to the playoffs & going through the grind of winning a le doesn't make you a better player in any way. especially when, if not for a certain superstar on your time, you'd just be sitting at home instead.

  9. #109
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    In a world where Michael Jordan didn't exist, I'd love to see John Paxson or Steve Kerr interview for a GM job.

    "okay next candidate.....John Paxson.....who the is that???"
    You mean, being the #1 pick of the Spurs in 1984 wouldn't clinch it for John?

  10. #110
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    and I am still a big believer in the Pippen coattail theory.
    This theory has created much confusion over the years. It is obvious that Pippen would never have won those les without Jordan, but are you saying that Jordan would have won those les by subs uting Pippen with an average SF by his side all those years?

  11. #111
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Being a GM = being a better player how?
    Led them to a more successful career, yeah. Better player? No.
    Without Michael Jordan, they are never in the position to hit gamewinning shots in the Finals. without that experience, future teams like the Spurs & Lakers have no use for guys like Steve Kerr & Horace Grant & Ron Harper.

    If you don't think playing in those type of high pressure games doesn't make you a better player, I don't know what to say.

    Guys like Kerr & Paxson basically owe their entire livelihoods to Jordan, not to mention that he made them better players.

  12. #112
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    I bet if you googled...you would find quite a few of MJ's former teammates who said he made them better. I have heard Steve Kerr say it numerous times.
    I wouldn't publicly bad-mouth one of the best players of all time. It's instant career suicide.

  13. #113
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    I bet if you googled...you would find quite a few of MJ's former teammates who said he made them better. I have heard Steve Kerr say it numerous times.
    I believe Kerr even said that if it wasn't for playing with Jordan and the Bulls, he probably would have never lasted as long as he did in the league, and probably would have been gone after a couple years.

  14. #114
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    i guess getting to the playoffs & going through the grind of winning a le doesn't make you a better player in any way. especially when, if not for a certain superstar on your time, you'd just be sitting at home instead.
    The players' seasons with and without Jordan seemed to have shown no difference.

  15. #115
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    I wouldn't publicly bad-mouth one of the best players of all time. It's instant career suicide.
    So they'll go on ESPN and call him a jerk but they're just way too scared to tell everyone that he didn't make them a better player? right.

  16. #116
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    This theory has created much confusion over the years. It is obvious that Pippen would never have won those les without Jordan, but are you saying that Jordan would have won those les by subs uting Pippen with an average SF by his side all those years?
    I am saying it is possible. I don't know for sure...and neither do you.

    I am not saying that Pippen was not talented, but some people seem are cool with him being in the 50 greatest and placing him in the HOF...I wouldn't say they are wrong, just that I do not agree with them. The world is more than black and white.

  17. #117
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    I wouldn't publicly bad-mouth one of the best players of all time. It's instant career suicide.
    Thats great. At the same time, if he thought he was such as ty teammate, he didn't have to say anything at all. But he did the opposite, he does nothing but praise Jordan for all that he did for him.

  18. #118
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Without Michael Jordan, they are never in the position to hit gamewinning shots in the Finals. without that experience, future teams like the Spurs & Lakers have no use for guys like Steve Kerr & Horace Grant & Ron Harper.

    If you don't think playing in those type of high pressure games doesn't make you a better player, I don't know what to say.

    Guys like Kerr & Paxson basically owe their entire livelihoods to Jordan, not to mention that he made them better players.
    Again, these are all better careers, not better players. Michael Jordan did practically nothing to make them better players. They were dead-eye shooters without Jordan, they were dead-eye shooters with Jordan. How did Jordan make them better players? Paxson shined in the his first finals, closing out the Lakers, how did Jordan make him better?

  19. #119
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    The players' seasons with and without Jordan seemed to have shown no difference.
    Except for the fact that without Jordan, or some other loaded superstar team, such as Duncan and Robinson's Spurs, they got no rings. Thats a BIG difference.

  20. #120
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    So they'll go on ESPN and call him a jerk but they're just way too scared to tell everyone that he didn't make them a better player? right.
    They didn't say he was a jerk, they alluded to it, and said it was compe ive spirit. Which is basically exactly the same thing Kobe is doing now.

  21. #121
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    I wouldn't publicly bad-mouth one of the best players of all time. It's instant career suicide.
    Then you say nothing or keep your comments to a minimum, you don't flat out lie.

  22. #122
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    Again, these are all better careers, not better players. Michael Jordan did practically nothing to make them better players. They were dead-eye shooters without Jordan, they were dead-eye shooters with Jordan. How did Jordan make them better players? Paxson shined in the his first finals, closing out the Lakers, how did Jordan make him better?
    Because without Jordan, he wouldn't have been in any Finals, period.

  23. #123
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    lol, 6 rings

  24. #124
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Michael Jordan did practically nothing to make them better players.
    so you're saying that the experience of playing in (and winning) the NBA Finals will do nothing to make a player better?

  25. #125
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    They didn't say he was a jerk, they alluded to it, and said it was compe ive spirit.
    well point me to where they've ever alluded to Jordan not making them better players.

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