SA Pastor is Sex Freak

[Phenomanul]

I'd like to know a televangilist who is not getting personal gain from what they do.

That's on page 1.

[AlamoSpursFan]

No , and it gives you an ass load of cash to boot.

I can do with wearing a white collar all day.

White collar priests get a whole different kind of booty.

I'd rethink my denomination choice if I were you...

[Phenomanul]

Okay, yea . . . generalizations.


So, then what are you doing?

Clarify that for all of us, because we're just calling out the ministers/pastors/priests/religious leaders who are making an assload of money from their flock.
I'll await your answer, or another post about generalizations.

You finally got it.

That was not the initial tone of this thread or the other one. Glad I could help.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm am not his Judge. Nor am I defending Hawkins' actions.

I am however defending a minister's right to make a living. Though not in excess - that was made perfectly clear.

You defend a minister's right to make a living by using god's name???

Again, show me where Christ made money from his ministry.

- That GOD does in fact bless people financially - as long as their wealth is not a hindrance to their relationship with HIM.

Besides Job, there isn't any example of God giving people wealth. And, Job had to lose it all before that was granted to him, as it was a test of faith.

- That while it may be true that Jesus and other early Christians (including the apostles) gave up everything in pursuit of their evangelistic calling that this self-sacrifice was part of the calling itself. We shouldn't overlook that they were in fact financially supported by the blessings of other Christians. Or that not every one is called to be a missionary.

It was part of the calling itself??? What the kind of arguement is that?? So, religious leaders don't have to give up anything if they don't have a "calling"? And, yes, the apostles and Jesus himself were supported by followers. But, did they get rich that way? Did they ask for financial support?? Did they require anything at all??

Read the bible. I encourage you to do so.

- That a salary for ministers (priests) was ordained by GOD Himself.

This is a bull statement. Where's the proof?? Don't just spout things out. Show us biblical proof where Jesus himelf said that ministers should get a salary. Remember, the OT (Old Testament) can not be used. The new covenant that Jesus made broke with the OT. Show us where in the NT (New Testament) it is said that ministers should get paid.

Oh... really? That is the entire undertone behind such threads.... why even post them then? We know earth is full of s bags, what else is new.

You are right. The earth is full of s bags. But, religious leaders who live hypocritically are a speacial breed of s .

Let's not overlook the fact that the Pope, or rather the Vatican, is by far the wealthiest clergical en y in the world. Where's the outcry there? But that is neither here nor there... and I don't want to go there any further than I already have.

, I'm with you there. And, if you've ever read any of my posts/rants on religion in general you'd know that I think the Vatican is a sham.

Then why make generalization after generalization? Everything Peewee has said undermines a greater good fulfilled by those ministers who don't enrich themselves in Christ's name... The painful part is they they vastly outnumber those he is trying to scorn.

I was scorning those that live hypocritically using god's name. I'm sorry I touched a nerve about your father. And, the fact that you think you have to defend him at every second may be saying somehting else. But, whatever.

There are some that try to live according to the gospel, and good for them. I'm not talking about them.

You need to stop being so touchy and remember that you're not god's little soldier. Unless, that is, he's such a weak being that he needs help from a simple human.

[peewee's lovechild]

You finally got it.

That was not the initial tone of this thread or the other one. Glad I could help.

I'm sorry it took you all this time to realize what everyone's talking about.

Maybe, if you wouldn't get your feelings hurt everytime someone calls out a priest/minister/pastor for being a hypocritical bas , you'd be able to catch up a bit quicker.

[clambake]

Look, Phenom, this is not just some other corporation. In this case, a few bad apples does spoil the bunch.

[peewee's lovechild]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/1....ap/index.html

Priests and thier kinkiness.

[Goliadnative]

I am not trying to defend the money the televangelists make but this would seem to say that pastors should be allowed some compensation for their work.

1 Timothy 5:17-18 - The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

The last quote is in reference to what Jesus told the apostles in Luke 10:7 - "Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." and Matthew 10:10 - "take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep."

[peewee's lovechild]

I am not trying to defend the money the televangelists make but this would seem to say that pastors should be allowed some compensation for their work.

1 Timothy 5:17-18 - The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

The last quote is in reference to what Jesus told the apostles in Luke 10:7 - "Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." and Matthew 10:10 - "take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep."

All that means is that you earn your keep.

It doesn't say that the ministry should be a paid position.

Even the Apostle Paul knew this. When he stayed with Drucilla (I can't remember the text right now), he earned his keep when he stayed with Drucilla's family by making tents and other fabric items. He was never paid for doing his ministry.

So, like I said, find me a text in the NT where it says that one who performs ministry should be compensated moneterily(sp).

[Phenomanul]

You defend a minister's right to make a living by using god's name???

Again, show me where Christ made money from his ministry.





Besides Job, there isn't any example of God giving people wealth. And, Job had to lose it all before that was granted to him, as it was a test of faith.




It was part of the calling itself??? What the kind of arguement is that?? So, religious leaders don't have to give up anything if they don't have a "calling"? And, yes, the apostles and Jesus himself were supported by followers. But, did they get rich that way? Did they ask for financial support?? Did they require anything at all??

Read the bible. I encourage you to do so.



This is a bull statement. Where's the proof?? Don't just spout things out. Show us biblical proof where Jesus himelf said that ministers should get a salary. Remember, the OT (Old Testament) can not be used. The new covenant that Jesus made broke with the OT. Show us where in the NT (New Testament) it is said that ministers should get paid.





You are right. The earth is full of s bags. But, religious leaders who live hypocritically are a speacial breed of s .





, I'm with you there. And, if you've ever read any of my posts/rants on religion in general you'd know that I think the Vatican is a sham.




I was scorning those that live hypocritically using god's name. I'm sorry I touched a nerve about your father. And, the fact that you think you have to defend him at every second may be saying somehting else. But, whatever.

There are some that try to live according to the gospel, and good for them. I'm not talking about them.

You need to stop being so touchy and remember that you're not god's little soldier. Unless, that is, he's such a weak being that he needs help from a simple human.

What was the word I used earlier to describe your arguments......

OBTUSE.

And interpret the Scriptures as you may... it seems you don't understand them (especially given that little gem of yours where you suggest that New Covenant 'broke' the Old Testament.... ummm sorry to break it to you, but only it replaced the Old Covenant GOD had made with Israel. As significant as that may be, the Old Testament still has much relevance in understanding the nature of GOD.)

Your initial comment in this thread contains all the necessary proof to confirm you are a backpedaling stereotypical twit.

Since god has no need for human currency, I'll judge them all I want.

They lead a life of luxury while those who hold on to faith live in misery.

That was your response to my first post in this thread:

Don't judge the many by the actions of a few.

Say all you want... twist the logic in whatever fashion you wish... But that sequence of posts cannot be refuted. So quit trying to change the story.

[ploto]

While I agree that it is not our place to judge a person- that is, to claim that we know the naure of an individual's standing with God- it is our place to speak out against injustice. Religion makes all kinds of statements about what is morally right and wrong. Cheating on your spouse is wrong-- taking advantage of vulnerable people is wrong... that is not judging the man- it is speking out against immoral actions.

[Phenomanul]

I'm sorry it took you all this time to realize what everyone's talking about.

Maybe, if you wouldn't get your feelings hurt everytime someone calls out a priest/minister/pastor for being a hypocritical bas , you'd be able to catch up a bit quicker.

Read my above post you liar.

So rather than admit that my reproof of your stance had a basis, you insist on trying to make me look bad.....

[Extra Stout]

So, like I said, find me a text in the NT where it says that one who performs ministry should be compensated moneterily(sp).

1 Corinthians 9:14, for one.

[Phenomanul]

While I agree that it is not our place to judge a person- that is, to claim that we know the naure of an individual's standing with God- it is our place to speak out against injustice. Religion makes all kinds of statements about what is morally right and wrong. Cheating on your spouse is wrong-- taking advantage of vulnerable people is wrong... that is not judging the man- it is speking out against immoral actions.

This I can agree with.

[Extra Stout]

Anyone with a modi of discernment should be able to say that most of these televangelists are lying snakes. They mostly preach the lie of the prosperity gospel.

And while there are Christians out there who are wealthy, material wealth is not the point of the Christian faith. The preacher who says that God will repay you financially many times over for your generous donation is a liar making you out to be a fool. The blessings that are returned for that generosity are: greater union with God, a greater manifestation of the fruits of the Spirit in one's life (love, gentleness, self-control, etc.), and ever-expanding opportunities to do good for other people. On occasion, the latter might entail access to financial resources. The task for the person with resources is to be a steward of God's kingdom with them. The pursuit of material luxuries is ALWAYS an obstacle to faith. That is why Jesus said that it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. It's also why he said that the person who has two cloaks must give one to the person who has none. We don't like to hear that in America because we want to have it both ways. But Jesus said that we cannot worship both God and Money, so we have to choose.

If that sounds extreme, or totally unreasonable in this society, well... nobody ever said that the process of sanctification was easy. It's called the narrow gate for a reason.

[Phenomanul]

Anyone with a modi of discernment should be able to say that most of these televangelists are lying snakes. They mostly preach the lie of the prosperity gospel.

And while there are Christians out there who are wealthy, material wealth is not the point of the Christian faith. The preacher who says that God will repay you financially many times over for your generous donation is a liar making you out to be a fool. The blessings that are returned for that generosity are: greater union with God, a greater manifestation of the fruits of the Spirit in one's life (love, gentleness, self-control, etc.), and ever-expanding opportunities to do good for other people. On occasion, the latter might entail access to financial resources. The task for the person with resources is to be a steward of God's kingdom with them. The pursuit of material luxuries is ALWAYS an obstacle to faith. That is why Jesus said that it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. It's also why he said that the person who has two cloaks must give one to the person who has none. We don't like to hear that in America because we want to have it both ways. But Jesus said that we cannot worship both God and Money, so we have to choose.

If that sounds extreme, or totally unreasonable in this society, well... nobody ever said that the process of sanctification was easy. It's called the narrow gate for a reason.

Again, I agree with most of this... In fact, I couldn't have stated it better myself. That said, the use of the word ALWAYS in that phrase is not as absolute as you suggest. I know wealthy Christians who give away more than half of their annual income. And guess what? GOD continues to bless them and to use them.

Someone here made a comment suggesting that GOD doesn't need our money. They're right; HE doesn't. HE owns everything. HE does however, require our obedience as a demonstration that we are depositing of our faith solely on HIM... not on any material possessions we may own.

[Extra Stout]

Again, I agree with most of this... In fact, I couldn't have stated it better myself. That said, the use of the word ALWAYS in that phrase is not as absolute as you suggest. I know wealthy Christians who give away more than half of their annual income. And guess what? GOD continues to bless them and to use them.

Someone here made a comment suggesting that GOD doesn't need our money. They're right; HE doesn't. HE owns everything. HE does however, require our obedience as a demonstration that we are depositing of our faith solely on HIM... not on any material possessions we may own.

Wealth is not the same thing as a life based upon the pursuit of material luxury.

That said... remember the lesson about the poor woman who gave her last two pennies to the temple.

[peewee's lovechild]

And interpret the Scriptures as you may... it seems you don't understand them (especially given that little gem of yours where you suggest that New Covenant 'broke' the Old Testament.... ummm sorry to break it to you, but only it replaced the Old Covenant GOD had made with Israel.

Hey, what happens when something becomes replaced?

Anyway, moron, if the OT was still as relevant as you wish it to be, then you'd be Jewish. Christians are christians because the follow the teachings of Jesus Christ which, sadly for you, can only be found in the NT.

Abraham, Moses, and all the others don't matter anymore because Jesus is the path to salvation.

I think you need to spend some more time with your dad.

Your initial comment in this thread contains all the necessary proof to confirm you are a backpedaling stereotypical twit.

As for my initial comment, I said that I would judge them (televangelists) all I want. And, I stand by it. If you don't condem what they do, then you condone it, no matter what you say.

[peewee's lovechild]

While I agree that it is not our place to judge a person- that is, to claim that we know the naure of an individual's standing with God- it is our place to speak out against injustice. Religion makes all kinds of statements about what is morally right and wrong. Cheating on your spouse is wrong-- taking advantage of vulnerable people is wrong... that is not judging the man- it is speking out against immoral actions.

I agree.

[peewee's lovechild]

1 Corinthians 9:14, for one.

1 Corinthians Chapter 9

The apostle did not make use of his power of being maintained at the charges of those to whom he preached, that he might give no hindrance to the gospel. Of running in the race and striving for the mastery.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

9:1. Am I not I free? Am not I an apostle? Have not I seen Christ Jesus our Lord? Are not you my work in the Lord?
Non sum liber non sum apostolus nonne Iesum Dominum nostrum vidi non opus meum vos estis in Domino

9:2. And if unto others I be not an apostle, but yet to you I am. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
Si aliis non sum apostolus sed tamen vobis sum nam signaculum apostolatus mei vos estis in Domino

9:3. My defence with them that do examine me is this.
Mea defensio apud eos qui me interrogant haec est

9:4. Have not we power to eat and to drink?


Okay, so we all have the power to eat and drink.

I guess that means that we can get paid to preach.

EDIT:

I quoted the wrong text.
I was corrected by Goliadnative.

But, it still doesn't apply.

[peewee's lovechild]

If that sounds extreme, or totally unreasonable in this society, well... nobody ever said that the process of sanctification was easy. It's called the narrow gate for a reason.

True.

[peewee's lovechild]

That said... remember the lesson about the poor woman who gave her last two pennies to the temple.

Of greater value to God, than the half hearted contributions rich men make.

[Goliadnative]

The verse is 1 Corinthians 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

[peewee's lovechild]

The verse is 1 Corinthians 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

How does that translate into getting paid to preach?

[clambake]

The verse is 1 Corinthians 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

you sure screwed that interpretation.