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I agree! He didn't not let go of the ball. Therefore, it's not in the act of shooting. Good call by the ref.!!!
Why did you get the got out of your name?
I agree! He didn't not let go of the ball. Therefore, it's not in the act of shooting. Good call by the ref.!!!
Last edited by jbspurs; 11-26-2007 at 12:20 AM.
So what is the problem here? You're saying that as crew chief, Salvatore has the ultimate authority to decide what the score is, the refs initiate questions about the score and not the other way around, correct?
Problem with that is that the passage I'm quoting seems to describe what actually happened in the game. The scorer had reason to question the score, sent along his well-founded concerns to the crew chief, and nothing was done. That's the only issue Cuban has here. An easily correctable call wasn't made. Maybe the up isn't Salvatore's fault, which is what you seem to be suggesting, but given his track record, the Mavs seem to believe otherwise.
I don't recall where I've ever suggested that Mark Cuban was honest about his intentions. Showing me his quotes where he says that he's doing it for the good of the league, if nothing else, just reinforces my point, particularly when there's no evidence that he's ever protested calls that didn't go against his team, nor has he ever lobbied for rule changes that aren't designed to give his team an advantage. You aren't going to suggest that the defensive changes he was on TV taking credit for weren't designed to give the Mavericks a better chance of beating the Spurs. Are you?
For the record, Mark Cuban is right to file a protest over that call. Frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are why that wasn't changed, and it's inexcusable that it wasn't. By all accounts it was bad, and somebody's bound to post video of it before long to confirm that for everyone. Given his track record, and his well-earned reputation as a sore loser and a whiner, I simply question whether Cuban would have done it if his team had won that game, and I absolutely know he wouldn't have cared if it had gone against the other team.
Don't POUT, you big baby.
Its funny how this is coming from a Suns fan.....Its even funnier that this is coming from Da_suns_fan!!!
I'm thinking if No-win-ski wouldn't have barfed up the inbounds pass at the end of the game, it wouldn't have mattered. Maybe Cuban can protest Dirk's hands.
if they won cuban would not do this
he does not care if the officials call it right he just wants to win
If the league actually listened to Cuban and implemented the changes he wanted, it would have the same impact on the Mavericks as 29 other teams. It wouldn't give his team alone some sort of advantage over other teams.
It just reinforces that you don't trust him and have a low opinion of him. That's fine, you are a fan of another team and you find much of his public behavior obnoxious. Whatever. It's human nature not to be as vocal or loud about blown calls that benefit your team. Mark Cuban isn't alone in that regard. It doesn't mean that he's not sincere about implementing changes that would result in better officiating all around. There's never going to be a perfectly officiated game. Refs are human, you can't completely eliminate human error. That's not the point.Showing me his quotes where he says that he's doing it for the good of the league, if nothing else, just reinforces my point, particularly when there's no evidence that he's ever protested calls that didn't go against his team, nor has he ever lobbied for rule changes that aren't designed to give his team an advantage.
Considering that eliminating handchecking didn't do us much good in the Finals, how did that work out for us? It wasn't "eliminate handchecking when we play the Spurs," it was eliminate handchecking for all 30 teams. I would argue that that was much more of a reaction to those Knicks-Heat late nineties partial-birth abortions than it was about beating a particular team. This is the product he and other owners wanted to put out on the floor. And the Spurs have won two les since the new rules went into effect. I think it's much more accurate to say that being able to play defense is at a higher premium now, and the Spurs have benefited as much or more than most teams.You aren't going to suggest that the defensive changes he was on TV taking credit for weren't designed to give the Mavericks a better chance of beating the Spurs. Are you?
So, in other words, even though I have to reluctantly agree with him on this, I will take potshots at him because of past actions that I didn't like. The net result of this is that if some procedure is put into place to prevent this kind of mishap from happening again, at some point down the road, a Maverick is going to get a long two correctly called instead of being erroneously awarded a three. I defy you to find a quote from anybody, anywhere, calling or begging to have a blown call in their favor reversed. It doesn't mean they wouldn't necessarily be opposed to changes that would improve officiating across the board.Given his track record, and his well-earned reputation as a sore loser and a whiner, I simply question whether Cuban would have done it if his team had won that game, and I absolutely know he wouldn't have cared if it had gone against the other team.
I don't agree. If they had pulled out the win, they still would've protested. They wouldn't want this happening again in a playoff game.
I don't think I agree with you on this one. We'll wait until the poorly called Suns-Mavs game on both sides where Dirk wins it on a shot over Shawn Marion to see if Cuban submits a complaint.
Oh yes, the "Where 1.3 seconds left happens" game. Did a Maverick get erroneously credited with a three-pointer in that game?
Yeah, Jason Terry did... and the Suns actually lost that game by a point, instead of 4 points, so it would have actually mattered.
I don't remember it that way, but if that were the case, clearing up official scoring confusion would hurt Dallas in this case, so the changes Cuban is seeking don't benefit them unilaterally.
Again, the problem is that you're requiring Salvatore to either: (1) take the word of the official scorer, which contravenes the belief of the three officials; or (2) engage in an impermissible replay to confirm or reject what the official scorer told him. I don't see that either is a proper basis for a protest.
Frankly, I had presumed that your retort would be to cite me to the discrepancy rule and have had some time to think about that provision. I think the discrepancy rule isn't intended to deal with whether a shot was erroneously called as a 3 as opposed to a 2; it's to deal with a situation where a shot that was called as a 3 was credited as a 2 -- that creates a discrepancy. There is no "discrepancy" in the situation that occurred in Indianapolis -- a shot was deemed to be a 3 and was scored as a 3. It's clear to me that the game officials are the final arbiters of scoring decisions, so whatever they say goes. Even if your reading of the rule is superior to mine, the language of the rule itself says that the scorer may alert the crew chief of a suspected error, but that "the official shall accept the record of the official scorer, unless he has knowledge that forces him to decide otherwise." In this particular case, Salvatore might have been alerted to the error, but was required to maintain the record kept by the scorer -- that record would have shown the shot in question to be a 3 -- unless Salvatore had knowledge that the record was wrong. Say what you will, but I maintain that it would be bad policy to permit game officials to accept the recommendations of local scorers and the "knowledge" requirement of the rule contemplates only knowledge possessed by the officiating crew itself and not conveyed to them by third parties.
As such, I still insist that Cuban's protest is one that asks more that rules be changed or disregarded than one based on the failure to adhere to some existing rule.
Yeah - there was no pause and protest or anything like that. It was only seen on the replay that he was over the line when he did his little dribble stutter-step move.
Not like in the '06 playoffs when the ball bounced off the backboard, the shot clock reset, and Javie later apologized to the Suns for messing up the call.
Oh, well - Raja Bell got a 3 against the Spurs with his foot on the line last year, so it all evens out. What Cuban should really do is gather all improperly awarded 3 pointers over the past 3 years and make a "Where (blank) happens" commercial. He has the money to do it.
I think all Cuban is asking for is how did such an obvious up get made? It's pretty routine for these kinds of scoring errors to be corrected. It didn't happen in this case. I still don't understand why Salvatore can and should completely disregard the official scorer disputing the score, even though as crew chief it is ultimately his call to determine what the score is. As best as I can understand it, your argument is that Salvatore can't completely trust the OS to be operating in good faith, so he should pay it no heed. It seems pretty obvious and self-evident to me that the OS was seeking a change for a pretty valid reason and Salvatore couldn't be bothered. I think that's bad policy to assume the OS is operating out of some sort of bias or they can't be trusted.
No -- I think the official scorer shouldn't be butting in on questions concerning on-court rulings. It would be inappropriate for the official scorer to tell the officials that something that was called a foul wasn't actually a foul, or was a foul that should have been called on a different player than the one who was credited with the foul. If the officials on the floor catch their mistake and correct it, that's one thing -- and I suspect that's the correction that you claim to see so frequently; one guy is telling the others that a shot was a 3 instead of a 2 and vice-versa. I can see that the official scorer might ask whether a shot was ruled a 2 or a 3 by the game officials, but I don't see that there's any place for the official scorer to advise the game officials, in definitive terms, that there was a mistake made -- and I think that the reason there's no place for that is that permitting such interference by the official scorer could (and I emphasize the word could; not did, not always will -- could) invite shenanigans. There's a specific reason that so much control of the game is vested in the game officials.
Just shut up Findog...
Here's an example of Mark Cuban's unbiased
respect for the rules:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLn5M8c2Gw
Eat a . He stopped defending Terry when the reverse angle clearly showed the nutpunch. The most common angle didn't show anything.
Block me if I annoy you.
That's funny...because in that link I posted, it's pretty obvious Cuban knows Terry punched Finley in the nuts with a closed fist, and he's still protesting the ruling. I say it's obvious because...he says Terry punched him with a closed fist, as he's protesting the ruling.
You so stupid you try and lie even when the evidence that proves you are lying is one post ahead of you.
So stick that specious reasoning up your ass...
Terry initially told team officials that he didn't punch Finley. The video proved him wrong. Once that was established, they stopped making such a stink about him having to sit out G6.
http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/05/...es-in-the-nba/
When Jason Terry was suspended for throwing a punch last year, our only argument was whether or not he actually threw a punch. If he did, all involved, including Jason knew and understood what the punishment would be and why.
Just to cue spurscenter:
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Watch the video if you don't want to be considered an idiot...
It's right there...Cuban saying Terry punched Finley with a closed fist...Cuban saying he shouldn't have been suspended for it...you idiot.
Watch the video...then shut up.
There's absolutely no defense you can make without just straight up lying.
I've seen the damn video before, I saw that interview footage when it happened in May of 2006. He quickly backtracked from that stance once it became obvious how bad it was. If you want to hold him to his first reaction right after the decision was announced, then so be it. He can be an obnoxious ass at times, and emotions run high in a hotly-contested playoff series. He cursed out Bowen on the floor after G6 and then apologized for it. He quickly came off his defend JET at all costs stance too. Your choice if you want that interview to be his Final Answer on the topic.
Un...the severity of the punch has nothing to do with it you ...
Read the NBA rulebook sometime...you'll be less stupid.
Closed Fist = Suspension. Period. Per the rule book. Now either Cuban didn't know the rule, which makes him an even bigger ass since he is so critical of the officiating...or else he was saying the rule shouldn't be enforced against his team you idiot. But obviously, he did know the rule, since it was stated at the time the suspension was given out.
There's no two ways about it...
Closed Fist = Suspension. Period.
In that video, he obviously knew Terry used a closed fist, and he obviously thought he shouldn't have been suspended for it. IE, he didn't think a clearly stated rulle should be enforced against his team...which makes your entire, concerned about the integrity of the officiating argument on his behalf... ing stupid.
Baby steps my friend...first you must reliaze you're stupid, before the healing can begin...say it to yourself, "I am stupid, and I want to get better".
You have the lost this argument, you have lost it badly...continue trying to win it, futiley, at the expense of your own credibility...what little you have...
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