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tp, dirk and nash did compete against jordan, pippen, barkey and malone?
Of course, they were Dream team (I mean No.1) Later they didn’t have real compe ion. Yugo fall apart… SSSR fall apart.
What I want to say is TP, Dirk, Nash couldn’t compete with DT No. 1 (Magic, Jordan, Bird, Ewing, Drexler, Pippen, Barkley, Malone, Stockton...) while Yugo can (89, 90, and 91 and if still together 92, 93, 94...).
That is why I think is very wrong to simply forget those players just because one never see them play BB. I would even put aside accomplishments because BB is team sport and it means nothing to me if TP has 3 rings if he has Manu, TD, Bruce Bowen on his side. I can only compare TP with other international players when he plays on international tournaments. Sorry. I saw him this summer and last summer.
I saw him playing for France (64mil.)They lose a game against 2mil. Country of Slovenia which was without (Beno, Nachbar, Vujacic, Becirovic, Milic and Brezec) I can’t put him above any of Yugo (90) team.
tp, dirk and nash did compete against jordan, pippen, barkey and malone?
Drazen was one of my favorite players. In my opinion he was the best shooter of all time.
we dont and wont know whether anyone else could compete with DT1, because no one ever did. leading by 2pts in the first quarter doesnt count as competing.
I dont understand the logic of saying you cant compare with accomplishments because bball is a team game, then going on to say parker is a worse player because france lost to slovenia. yes, france is a bigger country than slovenia. so what? what does that have to do with parker? criticize how he ran the offense, his %, his D, shot selection, whatever. those are better reasons to put him below the yugo players than whether france lost that game.
Your logic is completely backwards...
You think the impetus for the creation of the Dream Team was because the USA feared Yugoslavia was on the verge of becoming a dominant Olympic Power...
Potentially.
In reality...the freaking Soviet Union had become the dominant Olympic Power.
Reality > Potentially
Furthermore, in the eyes of America...the Soviet Union was our most hated rival. Yugoslavia was not even on the map...regardless of how good their basketball program was becoming...it was all about the USA VS the USSR and the opposing ideologies.
Period.
Genius. American ignorance. They don't even know who their greatest opponent - enemy is.
If on the line at 90 and 91 Yugo is 9 and USSR is 6. What have you achive if you win against USSR thinking "now we are the best"
Boy will you be surprised again.
1990
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FI...d_Championship
1991
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroBasket_1991
Where is USSR? Just look at the margins.
Reality or ignorance?
Look, American perception is not a problem of all other participants.
Last edited by Kibic; 12-03-2007 at 03:59 PM.
Not American ignorance...your arrogance, .
American did not give two s about the World Championships until the Dream Team era began. Nor did they give a about Yugoslavia.
We used to send corporate teams to play in them...guys that weren't pro basketball players to play in them. Like the Chrysler basketball team...to play in them.
I'm not the one that arrogant or ignorant...you are you ing , for presuming that you know us better than we know ourselves...
Let me spell it for you real clearly in terms your insecure ass can undersand...
Who won the Gold Medal in 1988? The first time it could be argued America was legitimately beaten in the Olympics?
Was it ing Yugoslavia? Or was it our ideological arch enemy? At the apex of the Cold War no less?
There's no potential loss there...there is an actual loss there.
You are the arrogant ass for presuming you understand that better than we do...it was US VS the Russians.. . Plain and simple. Period. End of subject. That was what we cared about. The World Championship didn't mean to us...and neither did Yugoslavia...I don't give a how good you think they were.
Now stop being an arrogant ass and either read up on the history of the US Dream Team, not to mention the 50 ing year rivalry between the US and the USSR in virtually every aspect of compe ion...or continue to be someone who doesn't know what the they are talking about.
PS: We stil don't really give a about the World C...the only reason it matters now is because we lost the Olympics. Most of us can't even tell you who won the last WC's.
OK, slow down. We are talking about sports.
I can agree with Whottt on the fact that average American fan didn't know about YU basketball program, previous successes and stuff. They didn't and still don't give a about International ball in general (pity it's not only ball, but that is another story).
Only International compe ion worth something are Olympics. But this goes for general public.
American bball experts knew very well that basketball is growing fast in Europe (South America joined the party later). They also knew political situation. Soviet empire was crumbling at that time faster than YU. Their team was falling apart as well. In 1988 and Junior WC in Bormio (Italy) all eyes were on the YU young guns that won the tournament. G. Payton led the US team that was beaten in the finals (first one in history). Alonzo Mourning and his team was the second victim in the WC that took place in Argentina. Suddenly American teams, that ruled the world, couldn't win one single tournament. Whole situation and POTENTIALLY long haul without any gold or even medal was to much for such powerhouse as USA.
Dream team was established to promote NBA and to teach the world a lesson. And the world took some notes. As I said before, I believe that original dream team is the best team that was ever put together. But that Dream team was not firing on all cylinders. They were not prepared for the real compe ion. Because of that I think we would witnessed a game that would be closer than many would thought and maybe, just maybe we would have seen one of the biggest upsets in the history of the sport in general. Yes, that Yugo team was good enough to pull off something like that in the right cir stances.
It
Last edited by sendman; 12-03-2007 at 04:19 PM.
Do not insult me anymore, please!
OT.
how many international player do you know and see their play before 1990?
Not to mention, Yugo give a great on spanking USA. It was a pleasure every and each time. We know how important it is.
And yes, you were in USA vs USSR mode even when USSR fall apart. and you still are. Who gives a if you are playing for 5th to 8th place with Russians now?
You can't do nothing about that. That comes with domestic upbringing or better lack of it. With this kind of behavior certain individual is trying to hide his own insecurity (Ask DR. Phil).
He also called me an idiot just because I have a different opinion on some things here on this forum.
His life must be ...imagine, HE IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME! Scary!
Absolutely not kidding. What does the above quote have to do with anything? That's a pride factor, not a compe ive factor. Some of the world's best players refuse to play in the compe ion. When that occurs, it destroys the legitimacy of the compe ion.
Don't worry, he will be just fine. I have a nice pocket just for his kind.You can't do nothing about that. That comes with domestic upbringing or better lack of it. With this kind of behavior certain individual is trying to hide his own insecurity (Ask DR. Phil).
He also called me an idiot just because I have a different opinion on some things here on this forum.
His life must be ...imagine, HE IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME! Scary!
I can only assume that I must have stepped on Slovenian toes here...or innocently stumbled into a former Soviet Bloc country/USSR pissing contest...I assure you, that was not my intent.
First of all, let me attempt to make things more civil by saying...
The late 80's early 90's Lithuanian contingent of the Soviet Basketball team would have owned Yugoslavia by itself.
There, friends again?
I insult because you call me ignorant...let's be clear about this.
Let me put it another way...the Yugoslavian team at that point could have been the greatest basketball team ever assembled in the history of mankind...
It still was not the impetus for the creation of the Dream Team...the 88 loss to the Soviet Union in the Olympics was...what made it even more painful, was that an American military man was a part of that 88 basketball team.
That is what you call a slap in the face, that is what you call, a wake up call.
Finally...I think you guys are severely underating the USSR Team on it's own merits...it had plenty of pro players on it....including a big ass Lithuanian that was making a serious push at being considered the greatest basketball player in the World...and he wasn't playing in the NBA.
IT's not that I am ignorant my Slovenian friends...it's that you just don't understand Americans...and even more strangely, you seem completely clueless of half a century heated rivalry between America and the Soviet Union...in virtually every aspect of human endeavor.
Call us arrogant self centered all you want...just don't call us stupid. And make sure you call the Russians arrogant and self centered while you are doing that....
You guys are the bags here...not I.
I said Sabonis is the player that indirectly responsible for the creation of the Dream Team...
You guys got ing outraged over some imagined impuning of the Yugoslavain Team...
Ya'll are the ones over-reacting, not I....and more importantly, you remain wrong...the Yugoslavian team had jack to do with the creation of the Dream Team...I don't care what ya'll tell yourselves over there were our reasons for doing it...I don't care how good the Yugoslavian team was...I'm telling you why we created the Dream Team....
It was because for the first time in our history we were legitimately beaten in the Olympics in basketball...by the Soviet Union. That was the outrage...
I assure you, we weren't sitting here saying...oh , in four years the Yugoslavians will beat us...
We were saying, oh , the Russians just beat us in basketball. Fix this now.
Results between USSR and YU from that time are speaking for themselves. With or without that big lumbering one.
It must be my damn English again.
Sorry, Slovenian friends, the impetus for the creation of the Dream Team was the loss to the USSR in 1988. Any heed paid to Yugoslavia was only as part of the general perception that the world was starting to catch up.
The Olympics were all that mattered then. Nobody in the USA cared about the World Championships. They were irrelevant here until 2002, when the NBA put on a marketing blitz as part of its ongoing campaign to globalize the game.
Of course it makes sense that your media would put the spin on it to make it sound like the great superpower America was really concerned about little Yugoslavia. But we weren't. And if Yugoslavia really had been on the nation's consciousness, especially after the Iron Curtain fell, the response would not have been ominous fear and loathing, but rather admiration, because Americans love the plucky underdog, which is exactly why the Lithuanian team gained such a following in the 1990's.
Results between USSR and YU from that time are speaking for themselves. With or without that big lumbering one.
It must be my damn English again.
And I'm saying right now? I take the Lithuanians over the Slovenians with their current lineups...
Show me something Slovenia...
I know ya'll are some big tall mother ers that drink and play basketball...but I don't think ya'll drink and play basketball as well as the Russians(and their former territories).
When Rasho and Beno get drunk they suck ass the next day...the Lithuanians have proven they can get drunk and still bring it the next day.
Prove it...all I'm sayin.
Edit: I do give Vlade credit for proving you can smoke and play basketball at a good level...but so far he's the aberration. And he's not a Slovene...
Show us something Slovenia. Right now Slomo is the only one showing he's got game.
Vodka is a good bit stronger than Lasko... and in Slovenia one can find things to do besides get drunk during the winter...
And now I WILL QUOTE MYSELF:
So EXTRA STOUT what is your problem?
I wrote everything YOU ARE SAYING. Do I have to repeat it till I drop dead?
I don't think Slovenia has any oil.
how many international player do you know and see their play before 1990?
If the USA had lost to anybody other than the USSR, say for example Yugoslavia, it's more likely that the USA just decides that it's better to continue to send college kids and not win as much, than to introduce professionals and violate the so-called "sanc y" of Olympic amateur sports, and that there is no Dream Team until much later, if at all.
Conjuring up the will necessary to make the jump from amateur to professional players required the kind of psychic damage inflicted by a loss to the USSR.
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