Ben Wallace

[El_Mago]

Artest is still out there, and his contract is not too crazy.

However, his personality might be.

Looks like the Mavericks will make a strong push for J-Kidd.

Ideally, grabbing Artest would be so awesome and help us in so many ways.

His rebounding is good, he can score, outstanding defense, hustles, and will bring an edge this team has lacked since SJax departed.

Yet, he maybe too much of a character for this team to swallow....although, back in the mid 90's the same was said about a Rodman, and a guy named Pop still brought him to town...

[ChumpDumper]

We probably would have won the le back when we were talking about trading Parker for Payton circa 2001-02. Who knows? Parker was not proven at the time. And we can't predict how we'd move on from Payton or if the Spurs would've changed focus in 2003. We have no idea.

Don't exaggerate, either.

We complainers would be quieted if the front office managed to acquire or retain any star-quality player outside of the draft.

Just one.

No, you'll never shut up. It's against your nature.

You wanted to trade Parker for Payton. Period.

No exaggeration.

[ChumpDumper]

You mean to tell me you fully expect this team to continue drafting star players like Gino, Parker, TD, DRob, Elliott and so forth.... two of those three weren't successful until the third(TD) arrived. You cannot solely survive via the draft and I'm certainly not holding it against them I just know that they have always had this notion to keep the cap clear for FA's and time has proven that they never come regardless of their ability to contend year and year out.

The cap hasn't been clear for years and won't be for another two year at least. Where have you been all this time?

Teams are way more in tune with scouting these days than years before. I really think SA was ahead of their time there. So consider it a success but real long term success is built on the ability to accept change. They can't bank on finding obscure talent in the draft anymore than they can bank on premier FA's coming to SA. Whats left is aquiring talent via trade of expiring deals.

Are you saying the Spurs success this past decade is short term?

I'm not saying do for s sake but sometimes you have to give to get. Its always been about steal it for nothing or do nothing. I'd like to see them loosen up a bit since the league has evolved and adapted.

There are more possibilities for Spurs trades this season than there has been in several years. Be happy.

[BacktoBasics]

Which players are you going to trade? There has to be at least four unless you want to trade Parker or Manu. Go ahead and give us your awesome trade and tell us why Paxson goes for it. That's how these things work.

Trading four is fine. If it means Wallace, Thomas and a pick. Thats getting two(one contract and a up and comer) with a potential prospect for what??? Barry, Elson and filler even Bowen we have his failsafe replacement in Ime right .

I'm not saying that deal is on the table I'm saying its worth a nod. Going back to what I've said above they only seem to deal when it means either cap clearance or a steal for nothing. They passed on Mags last year and I'm dissapointed regardless of the championship because look what Barry brings us right here and now. Mags would be a huge lift this season. Thats just one example.

[Ghost Writer]

D@mn right I did.

I'll take the bird in the hand every time.

We didn't have to re-sign Payton at the end of the year, allowing us the flexibility to go after, um, Rasho in 2003.

Stick to the topic...

The Spurs are mostly luck.

Sure, Parker and Ginobili were two great draft picks in the past 8 years. What about the rest? Crap or gone.

Put veterans around your franchise #1 pick and hope for the best.

We'd have more faith if they ever made a move to bring in bonafide talent.

Bonus points if they could retain a blossoming player after they acquired him.

[ChumpDumper]

They passed on Mags last year and I'm dissapointed regardless of the championship

Only spurfans could be disappointed with a championship.

[FromWayDowntown]

We complainers would be quieted if the front office managed to acquire or retain any star-quality player outside of the draft.

Just one.

So getting 3 star-quality players through the draft, with only one being a lottery pick, is insufficient?

A team can't really expect to win les without 4 or 5 star-quality players, I guess.

[ChumpDumper]

D@mn right I did.

I'll take the bird in the hand every time.

We didn't have to re-sign Payton at the end of the year, allowing us the flexibility to go after, um, Rasho in 2003.

Stick to the topic...

That is the topic.

You wanted to trade Parker for Payton. That is your way. You want the same players you wanted six years ago. Stromile ing Swift? That's your answer for everything.

The Spurs are mostly luck.

Sure, Parker and Ginobili were two great draft picks in the past 8 years. What about the rest? Crap or gone.

Put veterans around your franchise #1 pick and hope for the best.

Put veterans around your three stars and see what happens.

It's a shame that never ever worked.

A crying shame.

[ChumpDumper]

Bonus points if they could retain a blossoming player after they acquired him.

They kept Parker after someone wanted to trade him for Payton.

[BacktoBasics]

The cap hasn't been clear for years and won't be for another two year at least. Where have you been all this time?

Are you saying the Spurs success this past decade is short term?

There are more possibilities for Spurs trades this season than there has been in several years. Be happy.

Its not a matter of being happy.

I don't think its short term but its highly indicative of extremely fortunate drafting. The kind of drafting that would be insane to think could be duplicated year in and year out. Each of SA's championships required youth at some point. That youth is missing right now and partner that with role players on their very last leg and you have a formula that begs for change. Seeing as how this team can't land FA's or lacks the cap to do (whichever) and this team in all probability won't draft with as much success (see last two drafts) then next viable move for young talent is to move expiring deals.

Why hold an expiring deal if once it expires you fail to sign a quality FA with the relief? Its always a hope but never materializes.

Kidd, O'Neal, Brand as well as any second tier player and so forth never pan out. Right now those expiring deals are an assest to someone but not much of asset to SA.

[BacktoBasics]

Only spurfans could be disappointed with a championship.

The two don't go hand in hand. I was disappoint in the ring I was disappointed at the missed opportunity for talent. I'm not going be so brave as to say "well if they traded Barry for that long 3 they wouldn't have won the ring".

I think the move was a good one and they would have won anyway.

Mincing words like a women seems to be the only argument you have.

[ChumpDumper]

Its not a matter of being happy.

Because guys like you will never be happy. You're the guys who start threads whenever some previously unknown guy has a good game. "Jamario Moon? Where was the Spurs FO when this guy was available? They should all be fired!"

I don't think its short term but its highly indicative of extremely fortunate drafting. The kind of drafting that would be insane to think could be duplicated year in and year out.

Yeah, it's terrible that we were able to get three stars without having to trade for them.

Why hold an expiring deal if once it expires you fail to sign a quality FA with the relief? Its always a hope but never materializes.

Kidd, O'Neal, Brand as well as any second tier player and so forth never pan out. Right now those expiring deals are an assest to someone but not much of asset to SA.

You're ing about the summer of 2010.

[BacktoBasics]

So Chump you think this team should do nothing and stick with this vet squad for another run?

[ChumpDumper]

The two don't go hand in hand. I was disappoint in the ring I was disappointed at the missed opportunity for talent. I'm not going be so brave as to say "well if they traded Barry for that long 3 they wouldn't have won the ring".

I think the move was a good one and they would have won anyway.

Mincing words like a women seems to be the only argument you have.

Looking a gift horse in the mouth is the only argument you seem to have.

[ChumpDumper]

So Chump you think this team should do nothing and stick with this vet squad for another run?

Thanks for not reading my other posts, idiot.

[WalterBenitez]

Ben Wallace? come on is there any rule that avoid to get a player younger than 30?

[Ghost Writer]

Relax everyone.

Instead of going all over the place, I'll be more succinct:

Payton for Parker may have backfired, but who knows what the future would hold?

To me at the time, the important thing was to get the aging star for the unproven talent.

I think our front office is more lucky than good.

Duncan and Robinson were #1 picks.

Parker and Ginobili were great selections, but who else is on our team today from the draft?

Who have we ever traded for that is of star-level?

[BacktoBasics]

Because guys like you will never be happy. You're the guys who start threads whenever some previously unknown guy has a good game. "Jamario Moon? Where was the Spurs FO when this guy was available? They should all be fired!"

Yeah, it's terrible that we were able to get three stars without having to trade for them.

You're ing about the summer of 2010.

I've never ing started a thread about Moon or anything like that. You really ing spew some ridiculous to win an argument. Quote me you stupid ing whiny asshole. ing bump one of my "topics" about firing the staff. Its never ing happened you ing . Can you not ing have a normal discussion without turning a cheek like a ing snobby drag queen who didn't get her diet coke refilled.

I THINK ITS MOTHER ING FANTASTIC THEY DRAFTED WHO THEY DID.

I just think its stupid for you to sit here and tell me "oh yeah stick with drafting superstar talent in the late rounds" because you don't have a ing clue what pans out and what won't.

I'm not ing about 2010 or any of the signings that didn't happen I just think that having the asset now could be used pronto rather than hoping a FA will come here because ing time past has told us differently.

YOU ARE THE DUMBEST ING PERSON I'VE EVER ARGUED WITH. You ing mix luck up with success, its idiotic.

[ChumpDumper]

I just think its stupid for you to sit here and tell me "oh yeah stick with drafting superstar talent in the late rounds" because you don't have a ing clue what pans out and what won't.

That's not what I said at all. Youj aren't very smart, are you?

I'm not ing about 2010

That's when clearing cap actually matters again. It hasn't mattered the past few years and won't matter for two more.

BTW, the last time it mattered, it allowed us to keep a guy named Manu Ginobili.

What a goddam shame that was.

[Ghost Writer]

Well put, BacktotheBasic.

I agree that it's either totally arrogant or ridiculously naive to suggest that the Spurs' success is much more than two #1 picks.

Parker and Ginobili... again, two nice draft picks, but what about all the other selections.

If the Spurs ever acquired even a moderate star-level player, we'd have no axe to grind.

I'd feel more confident in the 20/10 Plan and life after Duncan.

[BacktoBasics]

That's not what I said at all. Youj aren't very smart, are you?That's when clearing cap actually matters again. It hasn't mattered the past few years and won't matter for two more.

BTW, the last time it mattered, it allowed us to keep a guy named Manu Ginobili.

What a goddam shame that was.

Then what the are you saying? You're arguing this, that and nothing but somehow have some divine point. Whats your ing point?

Trade don't trade. Free up space for star FA. Draft like gods and surround with aging talent for the next 65 years.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing with no purpose. < that gets my vote.

[Ghost Writer]

Please post the name of the last player the Spurs got outside of the draft that was star-quality.

[FromWayDowntown]

Please post the name of the last player the Spurs got outside of the draft that was star-quality.

Please tell me why having 3 star quality players who win championships is insufficient.

[ChumpDumper]

Then what the are you saying?

I'm saying the Spurs can make a trade this season. In fact they have fewer things restricting a trade this season than they have had in a long time.

ing about the past doesn't change any of that.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm saying the Spurs can make a trade this season. In fact they have fewer things restricting a trade this season than they have had in a long time.

ing about the past doesn't change any of that.

Then why the are you arguing with me over the idea of making a trade if you agree? I never ed about the past you have me confused some other poster I'm using the past as an example of making a mistake. To learn from it. A ing example can we not cite examples from the past or is always going to be considered ing.