Diop is the Missing Piece

[mavs>spurs2]

So far, he claims the Kidd trade was a failure because our record is worse since he got here. Completely disregarding the fact that it takes time for a team to gel, it's even harder to adjust to a new PG more so than any other position, and the fact that before we even had a chance to gel the league MVP went down with an injury. Hmm..

[Findog]

So far, he claims the Kidd trade was a failure because our record is worse since he got here. Completely disregarding the fact that it takes time for a team to gel, it's even harder to adjust to a new PG more so than any other position, and the fact that before we even had a chance to gel the league MVP went down with an injury. Hmm..

This trade wasn't just about this year, it was about the next two years. Devin Harris has a longer window in this league than Kidd and he was a very good player. We will miss him at times and in certain matchups, and Diop was a player of some use as well, but you don't pass up on a guy like Kidd who will eventually make your team better because of Diop and his ten minutes per game. I've seen enough to know that this team isn't far from putting it together and that it will pay even more dividends next year.

Will we win a le? Maybe, probably not, but we weren't going to win a le with the team that we had. That Finals appearance and 67 wins were fool's gold, and it's a pretty weak justification for keeping that team together. The chemistry on and off the court wasn't as good as it had been, and that team had plateaued. I would've preferred that we keep Diop because backup C is not as much of a strength as it was, but that's something that can easily be alleviated in the offseason. Look at that list of guys I listed that are available as FAs this summer. Not all of them have the same skillset as Diop, but you're not losing anything plugging them into his slot as the backup C.

You can't render a verdict on this trade after six weeks. In two years we'll have that answer, but not now.

[mavs>spurs2]

You can't render a verdict on this trade after six weeks. In two years we'll have that answer, but not now.

Exactly, especially when you're a Rocket troll who doesn't know about what's going on in the Mavericks organization..

[Findog]

You say tomato, I say tomahto,

You say DeSagana Diop, I say

Theo Ratliff
Chris Mihm
Adonal Foyle
Brian Skinner
Calvin Booth
Lorenzen Wright
Kurt Thomas
Rasho Nesterovic
Chris Anderson

Seriously, it's like a math equation. Take out Diop's name, plug in one of the others, you get the same answer.

[da_suns_fan]

I admit this guy DOES post a lot like me. I read Findog accuse him of being me early this morning and rolled my eyes, but as I read this thread, I couldn't help but wonder if he has been studying my posts.

DaDakota: Youve got some real talent, but stop stealing my catch-phrases.

[DaDakota]

Here's the guys available this summer that are plenty capable of replacing Bill Russell and his ten minutes per game:

THIS SUMMER !!!!!

So now the Kidd trade was made for NEXT year....ROFLMAO !!!! Keep moving those goal posts....

If it was made for next year, they should have waited until the offseason to do it, but you know why they didn't do that? Because it was made for this year.

KABOOM....it blew up in Cuban's face...

Exactly, especially when you're a Rocket troll who doesn't know about what's going on in the Mavericks organization..

Yeah except I do know what is going on with the Mavs, I just don't agree with it......and honestly I am glad you guys are imploding.

Que cera cera....

And if Da_Suns_fan posts like me....that makes another intelligent guy who understands building a team is more than just individual statistics....

You can't render a verdict on this trade after six weeks. In two years we'll have that answer, but not now.

Yes by all means make a trade for a couple of years down the road when the team was already a contender, this makes sense...how again?

Oh yeah, it doesn't.


DD

[Findog]

THIS SUMMER !!!!!

So now the Kidd trade was made for NEXT year....ROFLMAO !!!! Keep moving those goal posts....

It was made for this year, next year and the one after that. How is that so hard to understand?

And if Da_Suns_fan posts like me....that makes another intelligent guy who understands building a team is more than just individual statistics....

da_suns_fan thinks the key to a winning team is tv ratings.

[da_suns_fan]

da_suns_fan thinks the key to a winning team is tv ratings.

No, I offered ratings as proof that the Spurs were, in fact, boring. I followed this up with numbers supporting that the small San Antonio market size was irrelevant to their lack of a tv audience (see 94 finals versus 95 finals).

Spurs fans countered with the claim that all I (or any Suns fan) care about is ratings and you jumped on that bandwagon.

[mavsfan1000]

Mavsfans not understanding the importance of defense. I'm ashamed of this. Please look on what makes other teams more successful in that department. A shotblocker and a defensive stopper (Duncan and Bowen) that made the spurs so great. Dampier is not that great on defense. I would actually say Diop is slightly better in this category. I am almost sure this team won't win the championship the way this team is constructed. Diop and Harris being gone hurt our defense. In the last 2 years I thought we had a chance.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Spurs fans countered with the claim that all I (or any Suns fan) care about is ratings and you jumped on that bandwagon.

Most Spurs fans believe this because you had to include ratings in just about everything Spurs related. If you had just talked about the team and not your precious ratings you wouldn't have such a laughable reputation.

[Findog]

Diop and Harris being gone hurt our defense.

The they have.



http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2008/4/2/01328/35225

The Mavs are giving up 1.7 fewer points per 100 possessions than they did before the trade. That's a very significant drop, and is nearly double the hit we took on the offensive side.

In terms of specifics, the Mavs have improved in practically every defensive category but turnovers: The opposition shoots worse, the Mavs allow fewer offensive rebounds, and are fouling less

And if you watch the games, it's obvious: Kidd can do a good job of defending big, physical guards like Ginobili or Baron Davis. He rebounds exceptionally well for a guard, since not giving up offensive rebounds is part of defense. He creates plenty of turnovers in the half court set. Where we're struggling on offense is not in Devin taking his man off the dribble, but in how much more turnover prone we are with all the botched fast breaks from running more, and from guys bobbling perfect passes hitting them between the #'s that they're not used to getting. It's way too premature to call the Kidd trade a failure after six weeks, and it's going to be way too premature to call the Shaq trade a failure if they don't win it all this year. The Suns have next year and so do we. And Devin couldn't exactly stop CP3 or Deron Williams, he's been lit up by them every bit as bad as Kidd. Kidd > Harris. That will change by 2011, but for the next two years, we upgraded at the PG position. And it will hardly be insurmountable to go out and get a serviceable backup for Dampier in the offseason. Seriously, take your pick off this list and any one of them could shore up our frontcourt depth every bit as well as Diop, even if their skillsets vary:

Theo Ratliff
Chris Mihm
Adonal Foyle
Brian Skinner
Calvin Booth
Lorenzen Wright
Kurt Thomas
Rasho Nesterovic
Chris Anderson

Seriously, give me Diop or any other dude off that list. Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, those guys are special and can't be replaced. DeSagana Diop is a nice piece, but you can find plenty of serviceable backup centers throughout the league.

Dirk isn't stopping Lamar Odom or anybody on a bum wheel. He's going to get lit up by Amare tomorrow. The Mavs aren't going to stop the Lakers by having their best interior defender trap Kobe 40 feet away from the basket. I'd rather have DeSagana Diop backing up Damp instead of Malik Allen, but give me a ing break. I can't believe how Diop has been elevated into a HOF'er. Part of the reason we lost to Golden State is that we couldn't punish them on offense for using smallball because we got no points from the center position. It's a Catch-22 in bringing Dirk back because we have no chance to make the playoffs or do anything once we get there without him, but against good teams, he can be attacked and exploited defensively right now with his injury. And he is an adequate defender when healthy, his d has really improved.

In a trade, you give up something to get something. We miss Devin's ability to draw a charge, create a one-man fastbreak, and Diop's ability to block shots. We don't miss Diop's complete inability to score or Devin's iffy outside jumper.

I would have to say that Diop, or about 16 other backup centers are the "missing piece."

[Findog]

No, I offered ratings as proof that the Spurs were, in fact, boring. I followed this up with numbers supporting that the small San Antonio market size was irrelevant to their lack of a tv audience (see 94 finals versus 95 finals).

That whole argument is a non sequiter that nobody cares about.

Spurs fans countered with the claim that all I (or any Suns fan) care about is ratings and you jumped on that bandwagon.

It comprised 98% of your posts here, so why would we think otherwise? I don't monitor Arizona Sports s or PHX s.Net so I have no idea if you troll your fellow Suns fans or if you actually talk hoops on those boards.

[da_suns_fan]

I wouldn't say that Diop is the "missing piece" either, but I would EASILY rather have Diop than anyone on FinDog's list other than Kurt Thomas.

Calvin Booth?
Chris "The Birdman" Anderson?

Are you kidding me?!!!

[Findog]

I wouldn't say that Diop is the "missing piece" either, but I would EASILY rather have Diop than anyone on FinDog's list other than Kurt Thomas.

Calvin Booth?
Chris "The Birdman" Anderson?

Are you kidding me?!!!

What's wrong with the Birdman, other than his penchant for nose candy? You're talking about a backup center for 10 minutes a game, not a guy who's going to play 40+.

[da_suns_fan]

That whole argument is a non sequiter that nobody cares about.



It comprised 98% of your posts here, so why would we think otherwise? I don't monitor Arizona Sports s or PHX s.Net so I have no idea if you troll your fellow Suns fans or if you actually talk hoops on those boards.

98% percent of my posts? Is that claim backed up by factual analysis?

btw - I know that you do, in fact, monitor the Arizona Sports Forum. You provided a link here to a thread that I started there when I scored courtside tickets to a game in which Amare yelled at Barbosa.

Owned again, FinDog.

[da_suns_fan]

What's wrong with the Birdman, other than his penchant for nose candy? You're talking about a backup center for 10 minutes a game, not a guy who's going to play 40+.

Diop often played more against the Spurs than Dampier did. Im not saying Diop is great, but he's a of a lot more effective than most of the guys you put on that list.

[Findog]

98% percent of my posts? Is that claim backed up by factual analysis?

btw - I know that you do, in fact, monitor the Arizona Sports Forum. You provided a link here to a thread that I started there when I scored courtside tickets to a game in which Amare yelled at Barbosa.

Owned again, FinDog.

Yes, I know ASF exists. If you go back far enough, you'll find it in my browser history....maybe not, I've probably deleted cookies since then. But on a regular basis? Nope, don't think so.

[Findog]

Diop often played more against the Spurs than Dampier did. Im not saying Diop is great, but he's a of a lot more effective than most of the guys you put on that list.

We went over that before and no he didn't. Diop is living off that G7 against Duncan when he sat all of regulation and came in in OT after Damp banged on him all game. I didn't say those guys had the exact same skillset as Diop, but you don't think Brian Skinner can play 10 minutes a night of backup center? We're not talking about trying to replace Amare Stoudemire with Drew Gooden, we're talking about replacing Diop with some other semi-useful big.

[Findog]

Hypothetical question: If the Mavs sign Kurt Thomas this summer and win a le next year after shoring up their depth at center, is the Kidd trade a failure?

If the Suns get eliminated by the Lakers or Spurs this year and come back next year and win a le, is the Shaq trade a failure?

How would you answer Question 2 da_suns_fan?

[monosylab1k]

Mavsfans not understanding the importance of defense. I'm ashamed of this. Please look on what makes other teams more successful in that department. A shotblocker and a defensive stopper (Duncan and Bowen) that made the spurs so great. Dampier is not that great on defense. I would actually say Diop is slightly better in this category. I am almost sure this team won't win the championship the way this team is constructed. Diop and Harris being gone hurt our defense. In the last 2 years I thought we had a chance.

Do you not understand that OUR DEFENSE HAS GOTTEN BETTER SINCE THE TRADE YOU RE ED ING MORON.

But I'd expect this from the guy who s on Michael Finley's best years in Dallas. I'd expect it from a guy that was a Bulls fan until Jordan retired, then jumped on whatever bandwagon after that, then became a Mavs fan 4 years ago, but will surely be rooting for another team in a few more years.

[monosylab1k]

98% percent of my posts? Is that claim backed up by factual analysis?

btw - I know that you do, in fact, monitor the Arizona Sports Forum. You provided a link here to a thread that I started there when I scored courtside tickets to a game in which Amare yelled at Barbosa.

Owned again, FinDog.

Hey what happened to your original screen name? And all your threads? I want to read that wack ass Spurs drinking game thread but for some odd reason I can't find it. Why don't you tell everyone why....

[monosylab1k]

Didn't da_suns_ say he was leaving SpursTalk a few days ago? LOL

[mavsfan1000]

Do you not understand that OUR DEFENSE HAS GOTTEN BETTER SINCE THE TRADE YOU RE ED ING MORON.

But I'd expect this from the guy who s on Michael Finley's best years in Dallas. I'd expect it from a guy that was a Bulls fan until Jordan retired, then jumped on whatever bandwagon after that, then became a Mavs fan 4 years ago, but will surely be rooting for another team in a few more years.

The defense sucks man. You are in denial if you think otherwise. We can't stop anybody. God I hate the mavs fans on this site. They are so stupid.

[DaDakota]

The Mavs defense has gotten statistically better, but you have to factor in the compe ion before making a real analysis...

In truth stats are irrelevent, it is all about the record...wins vs. loses...12-11 since the trade....not good.

DD

[monosylab1k]

God I hate the mavs fans on this site.

You aren't even a Mavs fan so shut the up.

Holding GS below 90 points = bad defense. What a stupid piece of .