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  1. #126
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    I'm quite surprised to see Sir Charles so high in most of your lists guys, for me he is barely in the top 20.
    True. Barkley was an amazing talent but by his own admission, never cared much about D and was out of shape and unfocused for too much of his career..

  2. #127
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Way better than Duncan. The only ones who would take Duncan over Bird are extreme spurs homers.
    Total nonsense. Let me ask you something? On a bad shooting night for Bird, when did you ever see him go out there and dominate the out of a ball game defensively? Bird could play D, but was he dominant on that end? Absolutely not.. I remember playing the Suns a few years back, reg season game, Duncan was getting doubled every time he touched the ball and missed some easy ones, so what did he do in the 2nd half. He went out there, blocked like 5 shots, altered about 20 others, and down the stretch completely shut Amare down. He got nothing in the low block at all. 2003 finals, he was a in beast out there on D. Duncan is one of the best defensive big men ever, Bird isn't. And i don't buy into Bird being so much better than Tim on Offense. Tim's heyday was 25 PPG in his sleep. He was so unselfish, he could have rung up 30 a game for about 5 seasons in a row if he felt like it..

  3. #128
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Ofcourse you guys do, you're Spurs fans. aka the biggest ing homers (and dumbasses) in the NBA.

    Malone > Duncan.

    /thread
    You must be a Laker Fan


    Jordan > Kobe

  4. #129
    Believe.
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    Simple question. Aside from the 2003 Lakers (and I question even putting them up here since their supporting cast had deteriotated by then), what team did the Spurs beat on the way to their 4 les that the 93 Suns or 97/98 Jazz teams could not have beaten? I think Karl Malone is a nut up, but even I must admit MJ and the Bulls kept a lot of dudes from les. And when it wasn't MJ, it was Hakeem.

    I can see Timmy in the top 10, but I can't place him ahead of Hakeem or Shaq. You can't let Gasol or Horry hold either one of those dudes straight up and get away with it.

    Edit: And whoever said Timmy > Bird....man please.
    Last edited by kingmalaki; 04-08-2009 at 05:33 PM.

  5. #130
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    Here is my top 10:

    1. Wilt Chamberlain
    2. Bill Russell
    3. Michael Jordan
    4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    5. Magic Johnson
    6. Tim Duncan
    7. Larry Bird
    8. Oscar Robertson
    9. Jerry West
    10. Julius Erving

  6. #131
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Tim Duncan will always be #1 in my heart.

  7. #132
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Simple question. Aside from the 2003 Lakers (and I question even putting them up here since their supporting cast had deteriotated by then), what team did the Spurs beat on the way to their 4 les that the 93 Suns or 97/98 Jazz teams could not have beaten? I think Karl Malone is a nut up, but even I must admit MJ and the Bulls kept a lot of dudes from les. And when it wasn't MJ, it was Hakeem.

    I can see Timmy in the top 10, but I can't place him ahead of Hakeem or Shaq. You can't let Gasol or Horry hold either one of those dudes straight up and get away with it.

    Edit: And whoever said Timmy > Bird....man please.
    Malone was destroyed by Chris Webber and Brian Grant. Horry never held Duncan in check; the only way they stopped him aside from game 3 of the 01 WCF was by throwing everything they had at him in 01 and 02, knowing guys like Danny Ferry and Antonio Daniels weren't going to beat them. Same with they way they threw everything into keeping Duncan and Parker out of the lane when Bowen and Turkoglu couldn't buy a three in 04.

  8. #133
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Timmy's in my starting five.

    Stockton
    Jordan
    Magic
    Duncan
    Wilt

  9. #134
    Kooler than Jesus Nathan Explosion's Avatar
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    Simple question. Aside from the 2003 Lakers (and I question even putting them up here since their supporting cast had deteriotated by then), what team did the Spurs beat on the way to their 4 les that the 93 Suns or 97/98 Jazz teams could not have beaten? I think Karl Malone is a nut up, but even I must admit MJ and the Bulls kept a lot of dudes from les. And when it wasn't MJ, it was Hakeem.

    I can see Timmy in the top 10, but I can't place him ahead of Hakeem or Shaq. You can't let Gasol or Horry hold either one of those dudes straight up and get away with it.

    Edit: And whoever said Timmy > Bird....man please.
    Shaq knows his place in history, and right now it's behind Tim. He's even said he has to have more rings than Tim to be considered better. As for Hakeem, as great as he was, Tim has 4 rings. I'm not saying that makes him better, but down the line when we start getting fans who never saw either player play, they'll look at that as one of the indicators as to who was better.

  10. #135
    Kooler than Jesus Nathan Explosion's Avatar
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    duncan is among the greats of all time but come on.. anyone who puts duncan ahead of shaq automatically loses all their NBA credibility.
    I guess you can count Shaq among them. Shaq himself said that if Duncan finishes with more rings than himself, Duncan can be considered a greater player.

    The reason people start to look at Duncan over Shaq is because of consistency. Shaq was the most dominant force in the league for anout 5-6 years. But he's fallen off in a big way since then. Duncan's numbers across the board are the model of consistency year to year.

    In the end the debate is, do you want to be dominant for a few years or consistently great for your whole career.

  11. #136
    Believe. TwinTowers's Avatar
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    Shaq knows his place in history, and right now it's behind Tim. He's even said he has to have more rings than Tim to be considered better. As for Hakeem, as great as he was, Tim has 4 rings. I'm not saying that makes him better, but down the line when we start getting fans who never saw either player play, they'll look at that as one of the indicators as to who was better.
    I agree with Duncan being better than Shaq, but I think he's no better than Hakeem was... The only reason Hakeem only has two rings is because he had his best years during Jordan's era. Duncan would not have 4 rings if he had faced the Bulls during MJ's prime.

  12. #137
    Kooler than Jesus Nathan Explosion's Avatar
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    Duncan in his prime vs Hakeem in is prime would be a great matchup. Hakeem was such a physical specimen that could jump over Duncan but Duncan is such a smart player he'd figure out ways to get Hakeem away from the basket.

    Too bad we can't make things like this happen just for the sake of watching the greats play.

  13. #138
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    Malone was destroyed by Chris Webber and Brian Grant. Horry never held Duncan in check; the only way they stopped him aside from game 3 of the 01 WCF was by throwing everything they had at him in 01 and 02, knowing guys like Danny Ferry and Antonio Daniels weren't going to beat them. Same with they way they threw everything into keeping Duncan and Parker out of the lane when Bowen and Turkoglu couldn't buy a three in 04.
    I'm not saying Duncan is behind Malone. I'm saying he is behind Hakeem and Shaq. Those two (Hakeem and Shaq) had the ability to morph into superhuman drive when it came to their scoring, similar to MJ. Duncan doesn't have that ability. He is great but he isn't the profilic scorer that either of them were. There is no way in you could let the likes of Horry, Horace Grant or Gasol check Hakeem or Shaq pretty much straight up (which is what the Lakers did in the years they beat y'all) and get away with it.

  14. #139
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    I guess you can count Shaq among them. Shaq himself said that if Duncan finishes with more rings than himself, Duncan can be considered a greater player.

    The reason people start to look at Duncan over Shaq is because of consistency. Shaq was the most dominant force in the league for anout 5-6 years. But he's fallen off in a big way since then. Duncan's numbers across the board are the model of consistency year to year.

    In the end the debate is, do you want to be dominant for a few years or consistently great for your whole career.
    Please provide a link or some support for Shaq saying this. I have never heard him say Duncan was a better player. I have routinely heard him place himself 4th among big men, behind Russell, Wilt and Kareem.

    And Duncan has been in the league 12 seasons, and you can see the decline in his game now. Shaq was just as consistent in his first 12 years, although he did get hurt more. but when he played, he was just as consistent. You say Shaq has fallen way off....let's see what Duncan's game looks like in years 16 and 17.

  15. #140
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    Duncan in his prime vs Hakeem in is prime would be a great matchup. Hakeem was such a physical specimen that could jump over Duncan but Duncan is such a smart player he'd figure out ways to get Hakeem away from the basket.

    Too bad we can't make things like this happen just for the sake of watching the greats play.
    You do realize that Hakeem and Robinson were arguably the two best centers outside of the paint as well, right. :-) I'm not trying to be an ass....just saying pulling either of those dudes outside of the paint really wouldn't make a difference on either side of the ball, because they were both athletic freaks. Picture taller versions of Amare, with better jumpers.

  16. #141
    leveled up sook's Avatar
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    I would generously put him at #15.

  17. #142
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I'm not saying Duncan is behind Malone. I'm saying he is behind Hakeem and Shaq. Those two (Hakeem and Shaq) had the ability to morph into superhuman drive when it came to their scoring, similar to MJ. Duncan doesn't have that ability. He is great but he isn't the profilic scorer that either of them were. There is no way in you could let the likes of Horry, Horace Grant or Gasol check Hakeem or Shaq pretty much straight up (which is what the Lakers did in the years they beat y'all) and get away with it.
    You gotta be ing kidding me. The Lakers always threw everything they had at Duncan in the fourth quarters of games in 01 and 02, knowing Danny Ferry, Antonio Daniels, Samaki Walker, etc. weren't going to beat them. In '04 Duncan never saw single coverage. I don't know what kind of revisionist history you're trying to preach.

  18. #143
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I would generously put him at #15.
    I would generously call you re ed.

  19. #144
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    anyone who puts duncan ahead of shaq automatically loses all their NBA credibility.
    Based on what, Duncan is considerably younger than Shaq and is even more accomplished a basketball player. Rings/Finals MVP's/All NBA teams/All D teams, tell me where Shaq beats Timmy, i don't get it??

  20. #145
    The Lakers
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    baseline >>>> lakers999
    your mom>>>>>>>your girlfriend




    !!!
    Last edited by Lakers999; 04-08-2009 at 11:50 PM.

  21. #146
    Thank you, Tim Duncan! peskypesky's Avatar
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    Here is my top 10:

    1. Wilt Chamberlain
    2. Bill Russell
    3. Michael Jordan
    4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    5. Magic Johnson
    6. Tim Duncan
    7. Larry Bird
    8. Oscar Robertson
    9. Jerry West
    10. Julius Erving
    that's a pretty good list. can't argue with it.

    but I find it hard not to put Shaquille O'Neal on the list. I would probably drop Julius, although it pains me to say that.

  22. #147
    The Lakers
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    Lakers999, did you actually watch those guys from your list play?

    Just wondering if the basis for your list was formed from observation or stat sheets.

    i saw most of them from old tapes from back in the day i was born in 81 and the majority of basketbal i know are from the mid 80's up until today.

  23. #148
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    Most of the the arguments used against Tim Duncan are complete fallacies.

    Some of them may hold water, but if they are used against other great players, will leave you in a position where you will not be able to find 10 guys ahead of him.

    For example, the claim that Duncan played in an era of weak forwards. Patently false. The PF position has never been stronger in the NBA than in the recent decade with the likes of Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Rasheed, Dirk, Amare, Gasol, McDyess, Jermaine (healthy), Bosh, Brand, Boozer, Marion and several others I'm probably omitting. What's common to people in the list above is every single one of them made at least one All-NBA team.

    When Barkley and Malone played, the quality at PF was just the opposite. Aside from the two of them, few PFs were noteworthy. When these two started playing in the 80s, most of the forward spots in All-NBA teams would go to SFs rather than PFs. SFs and F/Gs ruled the roost then with Erving, Bird, English, King, Nique, Worthy, Dantley, and later Pippen and Grant Hill, who were virtual locks for All-NBA and All-star berths in their respective primes. Some of the All-NBA teams either had 2 SFs (Bird/Nique, Bird/King) or 2 centers (Sampson/Kareem) or even 3 guards in the 2nd/3rd teams (Mullin/KJ/Stockton or Mullin/Drexler/Dumars).

    Compare this to the modern era, when we have 3 PFs making the goddamn first team in 06-07 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare), 3 PFs making the 2nd team in 01-02 (KG, Webber, Dirk) and 07-08 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare). Also since TD came into the league, 8 All-NBA first teams out of a total of 11 feature 2 PFs and 0 SFs. That tells you a lot about the strength at the PF position.

    So who did Barkley and Malone go up against? An aging McHale, Chambers, mings, Coleman, Detlef Schrempf, Kemp, Rodman, Juwan Howard, Anthony Mason, Vin Baker etc. The PFs of the modern era would eat these guys alive. Drafted in 1985, Karl Malone got to the 1st team only in 88-89. Drafted in 1984, Barkley made it to his first 1st team only in 87-88. Compare these to Duncan, who made it to the first team as a rookie in 97-98.

    Barkley and Malone played mediocre defense. Duncan as a PF is one of the premier shot blockers in the NBA, and has been for the last dozen years. The Spurs' system revolves around him protecting the rim. Also, Malone was a jump shooter and screen/roll finisher while Barkley was a jump shooter who also drove on occasion. Duncan is the only low post offensive player out of the three. In the post-Jordan era, the low-post big man who also blocks shots has been instrumental in winning 8 out of 10 les. I don't know about you guys, but I'd take that over a jump shooter who can't intimidate at the rim any day.

    The books don't lie. Duncan is the only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first eleven seasons.

    With 4 les, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs, 11 All-NBA selections (9x First team), 11 All-Defense selections (8x First team), 11 All-Star game selections (10x starter), Duncan is the most complete player of the post-Jordan era and the best Forward ever.

    And it isn't even ing close! You'll have to add up Barkley and Malone's achievements to top what Duncan has accomplished, either one of them pales in comparison. Even if Malone hadn't choked and had won a le he'd be behind Duncan career-wise, but the shriveled up in the clutch every single time! Even if Barkley had made it to a couple of All-Defensive First teams he wouldn't be in Duncan's class, but the dude never even made it to the second team once!

    These guys aren't in the same sentence as Duncan. Bird or Dr.J would be a more interesting, but ultimately futile, argument. But these 2 underachievers don't hold a candle to Timmy.

    Excellent post!!!

  24. #149
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    Top 5. Easily. Count what decade he did his damage in, and compare it to others of the past. Level of compe ion and population of talent puts Tim in the top 5 in my books, easily.
    That's a good way to look at it.

  25. #150
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    Total nonsense. Let me ask you something? On a bad shooting night for Bird, when did you ever see him go out there and dominate the out of a ball game defensively? Bird could play D, but was he dominant on that end? Absolutely not.. I remember playing the Suns a few years back, reg season game, Duncan was getting doubled every time he touched the ball and missed some easy ones, so what did he do in the 2nd half. He went out there, blocked like 5 shots, altered about 20 others, and down the stretch completely shut Amare down. He got nothing in the low block at all. 2003 finals, he was a in beast out there on D. Duncan is one of the best defensive big men ever, Bird isn't. And i don't buy into Bird being so much better than Tim on Offense. Tim's heyday was 25 PPG in his sleep. He was so unselfish, he could have rung up 30 a game for about 5 seasons in a row if he felt like it..

    I think he learned from what David Robinson had to go through. Big Dave carried the Spurs on his back for years and couldn't win a ring until Tim got there. Then when Tim got there, Dave sacrificed some of his game so Tim could get him 2 rings. Tim made the same sacrifice for Tony and Manu so he wouldn't have to carry the Spurs on his back like Dave did. Without Tim making the sacrifices that he made, there is no way that Tony and Manu become the players they are today.

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