If prime Robinson and prime Duncan switched era's

[Phenomanul]

Ultimately however, is the fact that Olajuwon became a better player during the playoffs.

How do you think those players got their open looks?

Not to be trite, but you simply don't understand the game of basketball if you can't see how all of these things are intertwined... Cassell's 30 point performance as a rookie in a tight playoff game had little to do with Olojuwon ''making him better'' or ''giving him open looks,'' than it did with the fact that Cassell was a big stage player. Cassell's performance dwarfed any of Avery's contributions in that series... Both Elie (GM 1) and Horry (GM 2, and GM 5) hit game defining shots in that series. Olojuwon as great as he was did not shoot these shots for his teammates… his teammates came through; unlike Robinson’s.

Conversely, Robinson had little to do with Rodman’s decision to use the series to become a three-point marksman… He shot 4 or 5 three pointers in the series (obviously not making any). Robinson had little to do with the fact that Avery and Del Negro missed most of their wide open looks when the Rockets sagged off of them to double & triple team him.

You seem to think that the ’95 series was solely David vs. Hakeem.

Consider this; as great as Jordan was, he could never take a team of scrubs to the “promised land”.

"No one else"? Robinson himself was an inferior player during the postseason (when compared to his regular season).

Look at 1995. His fg% dropped from 53% in the regular season to 44.6% in the playoffs. That's actually a very significant decline. Not to mention he averaged 19.3 shots per game in the playoffs and 18.4 in the regular season. In addition, he averaged 10.5 ft/game in the regular season and 9.9 in the playoffs. Also, his turnovers increased from 2.9/game (regular season) to 3.7/game (playoffs).

Look at his numbers when he actually had better supporting casts… 90’ Playoffs, ’91 Playoffs, ’92 Playoffs.

[wekko368]

Not to be trite, but you simply don't understand the game of basketball if you can't see how all of these things are intertwined... Cassell's 30 point performance as a rookie in a tight playoff game had little to do with Olojuwon ''making him better'' or ''giving him open looks,'' than it did with the fact that Cassell was a big stage player.

First of all, I'll assume you're talking about Cassell's 2nd year with the Rockets since he never scored 30 pts in the playoffs as a rookie.

No offense, but you have to understand that the Rockets' offense revolved around Olajuwon. You want to look at Cassell's 30 pt game? Fine. You should also take a look at Olajuwon's stats that game. Olajuwon shot slightly over 63% from the field en route to 42 points and 8 assists.

You really don't think Olajuwon's dominance that game gave Cassell open looks?

Also, it's interesting that for a "big stage player", Cassell only made the all-star team once.

Olojuwon as great as he was did not shoot these shots for his teammates… his teammates came through; unlike Robinson’s.

Let me explain again. Olajuwon was so dominant that series that he forced the other Spurs defenders to help Robinson on defense. This gave open shots to the Rockets' role players.

Conversely, Robinson had little to do with Rodman’s decision to use the series to become a three-point marksman… He shot 4 or 5 three pointers in the series (obviously not making any).

Even though it was foolish, shooting 5 three pointers over 6 games isnt really a big deal. Especially when 3 of them came during one game.

Robinson had little to do with the fact that Avery and Del Negro missed most of their wide open looks when the Rockets sagged off of them to double & triple team him.

Avery shot 54.4% against the Rockets in the 95 playoffs. He shot 52% in the regular season, so he actually increased his production against the Rockets.

Del Negro's fg% decreased about 4% from the season to postseason, so yeah, he shot poorly.

You seem to think that the ’95 series was solely David vs. Hakeem.

Correct...because that the key matchup. Win that matchup and win the series.

Consider this; as great as Jordan was, he could never take a team of scrubs to the “promised land”.

By calling the supporting cast "scrubs", you're saying they're poor players. It's obvious that Jordan would be incapable of winning a le with poor players surrounding him. What exactly is your point?

Look at his numbers when he actually had better supporting casts… 90’ Playoffs, ’91 Playoffs, ’92 Playoffs.

What's the point? Isn't it more relevant to talk about his prime years? Especially his MVP year?

[Phenomanul]

I won't address the game-winning shot argument because I would be forced to admit the fact that it played a key role in determining the outcome of the '95 Spurs/Rockets series. I'd be forced into admitting that Robinson actually had a weaker playoff supporting cast... rendering my arguments null...

Instead I'll harp on the fact that Cassell was a sop re when he dominated Avery at the point, I mean geeesh... Phenomanul thought he was a rookie? Please.!. And Rodman taking a passive at ude on defense? That's allowed right? How else are you going to prove to people you can shoot three-pointers, if you're not allowed to roam the perimeter... game-strategy be damned.

Like I said... you simply don't get it.

Sure, Hakeem was great. You don't have to step over David to try and make your point.

[kingmalaki]

Phenomanul

You can point to other Rocket players stepped up in the 95 series if you like, and it's true that individual players did step up in different games. However, the one constant in that series was Hakeem dropping near 40 a night. If Robinson played better defense and doesn't allow a man to have a record series against him then the Spurs probably advance. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR LETTING A MAN DROP NEAR 40 A NIGHT ON YOU!!!

I agree that Robinson didn't have a good supporting cast for the majority of his career. However, do you deny that his playoff production decreased often?I think it was because of the lack of a post game, but for whatever reason, it dropped. Point to his teammates if you like, but don't forget to point to him too. It's not like his level of play was increasing in the postseason and dudes were just letting him down.

[Phenomanul]

Phenomanul

You can point to other Rocket players stepped up in the 95 series if you like, and it's true that individual players did step up in different games. However, the one constant in that series was Hakeem dropping near 40 a night. If Robinson played better defense and doesn't allow a man to have a record series against him then the Spurs probably advance. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR LETTING A MAN DROP NEAR 40 A NIGHT ON YOU!!!

I agree that Robinson didn't have a good supporting cast for the majority of his career. However, do you deny that his playoff production decreased often?I think it was because of the lack of a post game, but for whatever reason, it dropped. Point to his teammates if you like, but don't forget to point to him too. It's not like his level of play was increasing in the postseason and dudes were just letting him down.

So how did Amare dropping 37 PPG on the Spurs work out for the Suns in '05??? Basketball is a team sport after all...

The games in the 95 series were tight... The series as a whole was weird... I mean, only one home victory in 6 tries? The deciding factor was the fact that none of the Spurs guards could buy 4th quarter buckets in any game (even those they won)... (a little statistical anomaly that wekko368 ignored when using Basketballdatabase game logs to try and prove his points)... If he had actually seen the games he would have known that Del Negro shot something like 28% in the fourth quarters of Games 1-5... Perhaps he would have also known that the Rockets knocked down significantly more three-pointers than the Spurs for the series... Or that the Rockets effectively shifted their strategy in said final quarters by sending 3 players to suffocate Robinson while betting that his teammates would fail to come through... That plan worked to perfection... meanwhile Olojuwon's teammates were dropping daggers left and right when it mattered most... Sure... let's blame that on Robinson....

All of a sudden one move, Hakeem's dream-shake, epitomized the series in the lazy reporting eyes of BSPN... America ate it up because most Americans seem to find some sickening joy in watching genuinely nice people fall down. And Robinson, the humble sportsmen that he was, never deflected any of the criticisms... His personality, hurt his legacy the most, in this regard...

Now let's return to the Suns/Spurs series in '05 for a moment... the difference in that series was that it was the Spurs' perimeter players who were dropping 3-point bombs on the Suns'... Bowen, Barry, Ginobili, some guy named Horry... all the while this little French man wreaked havoc on the Suns lack of interior defense... But by your logic Amare >>> Duncan.

[wekko368]

Like I said... you simply don't get it.

Sure, Hakeem was great. You don't have to step over David to try and make your point.

The funny thing is, you're actually stepping over Olajuwon by trying to make this poor argument. By focusing on supporting casts, you're implying that Olajuwon and Robinson were comparable players, but in that series, Olajuwon was far superior. I'm not trying to "step over" Robinson. That's just the simple truth.

The fact of the matter is, Robinson was a great regular season performer but a good playoff performer. Olajuwon was a great regular season performer but a greater playoff performer. And that's what that series boiled down to.

You can complain all you want about the supporting casts, but in the end, each team was only going to go as far as their centers took them.

And "harping" on the fact that Cassell was a sophmore? Get over yourself. I wrote one sentence pointing out your mistake and you call this "harping".

[Phenomanul]

The funny thing is, you're actually stepping over Olajuwon by trying to make this poor argument. By focusing on supporting casts, you're implying that Olajuwon and Robinson were comparable players, but in that series, Olajuwon was far superior. I'm not trying to "step over" Robinson. That's just the simple truth.

The fact of the matter is, Robinson was a great regular season performer but a good playoff performer. Olajuwon was a great regular season performer but a greater playoff performer. And that's what that series boiled down to.

You can complain all you want about the supporting casts, but in the end, each team was only going to go as far as their centers took them.

And "harping" on the fact that Cassell was a sophmore? Get over yourself. I wrote one sentence pointing out your mistake and you call this "harping".

A team needs 4 wins to win a playoff series... How does a series with 3 game winning daggers, all by the Rockets no less, not reflect on the supporting casts at all??? Dude... take your blinders off...

Your original argument implied that somehow Olojuwon's greatness willed those game defining shots to go in... Remove Horry or Cassell from the equation and those Rockets teams would have failed in their quest... The fact that you're still trying to convince us that this was somehow Robinson's fault is beyond comprehension...

Again, basketball is a team sport... at you thinking this is about bashing Olojuwon...

[wekko368]

A team needs 4 wins to win a playoff series... How does a series with 3 game winning daggers, all by the Rockets no less, not reflect on the supporting casts at all??? Dude... take your blinders off...

Can you look at Olajuwon's performance and honestly tell me that he wasn't the centerpiece of the Rockets' offense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwR-FKopCKc

There's a video of Horry hitting one of his 3 pointers that series. In the play, Rodman is originally guarding Horry and Robinson is originally guarding Olajuwon. Olajuwon sets a pick for Kenny Smith, and Robinson leaves him to help guard Smith which leaves Olajuwon open. Rodman, seeing that Olajuwon is open, leaves Horry and runs to Olajuwon. Smith passes Horry the ball, and Horry drains the 3 pointer.

In that game, Olajuwon scored 39 pts while shooting 64% from the field. Seems to me that it was Olajuwon's dominance that forced the Spurs' defenders to pay extra attention to him which created open looks for the other Rockets.

Your original argument implied that somehow Olojuwon's greatness willed those game defining shots to go in... Remove Horry or Cassell from the equation and those Rockets teams would have failed in their quest...

Olajuwon's dominance created open looks for his teammates. The Rockets ran a simple inside-out offense.

The fact that you're still trying to convince us that this was somehow Robinson's fault is beyond comprehension...

Robinson allowed Olajuwon to have a monster series. If Robinson isn't to blame, then who is? Referees?

Again, basketball is a team sport... at you thinking this is about bashing Olojuwon...

Well, instead of admitting that Olajuwon was unstoppable that series, you're adamantly stating that his supporting cast was the reason the Rockets won the series.

So yeah, that's bashing Olajuwon.

[Phenomanul]

Can you look at Olajuwon's performance and honestly tell me that he wasn't the centerpiece of the Rockets' offense?

In that game, Olajuwon scored 39 pts while shooting 64% from the field. Seems to me that it was Olajuwon's dominance that forced the Spurs' defenders to pay extra attention to him which created open looks for the other Rockets.

Olojuwon was a great player... how many times must I say it... What's laughable is the fact that you continue to attribute the loss squarely on Robinson's shoulders while ignoring the impact from all the Rockets players not named Olojuwon....

In your eyes Robinson was supposed to be the team's top 1v1 defender, be there simultaneously to cover the weak side, step into every defensive rotation and to boot be able to cover the perimeter... Some conveniently lofty expectations there... Oddly enough, that play you pointed out was completely miffed by Rodman not Robinson...

Olojuwon sure as didn't knock down those daggers for his teammates... somehow you fail to grasp the fact that his teammates were the ones that actually executed down the stretch (be it their talent, their clutchness, whatever... they made their shots!!)... those same opportunities created by Robinson's post game resulted in missed buckets by the Spurs' backcourt... And let me let you in on something else... they actually were more open on their attempts than their Rockets counterparts... but somehow because they failed to score this somehow reflects poorly on Robinson???.. flawless logic there Sherlock.

The Rockets ran a simple inside-out offense.

So then a team concept does factor in the offense?? Which is it?

The Spurs couldn't run that offense because outside shots weren't falling... not because Robinson was playing ineffectively inside... when outside shots don't fall the inside game becomes harder to impose... conversely, when those shots do fall the effectiveness of the inside game grows synergetically... that's the dichotic dynamic that played out for both teams... you conveniently praise the scheme while failing to see the subleties that can cause its demise...

Well, instead of admitting that Olajuwon was unstoppable that series, you're adamantly stating that his supporting cast was the reason the Rockets won the series.

So yeah, that's bashing Olajuwon.

Petty semantics... are you that insecure about Olojuwon's legacy???... The man won out... be happy about it... Quit using it as a knock on Robinson; particularly on a week in which his entry to the HoF is being celebrated...

[kingmalaki]

So how did Amare dropping 37 PPG on the Spurs work out for the Suns in '05??? Basketball is a team sport after all...

IIRC, wasn't the Spurs strategy to stop everyone else and allow Amare to take shots? They won that series 4-1, so in other words letting Amare get off didn't hurt the team too much. You really can't say that about Hakeem in 95. If Robinson plays better defense the Spurs probably win.

The games in 95 were tight, and you are correct that Rockets role players were knocking down important shots. But you fail to acknowledge that in those tight games, the team still ran their offense through Hakeem, and Robinson couldn't stop him. That's also how the Rockets role players kept getting those wide open looks, because the Spurs had to send Robinson help (even though the myth around here is that Robinson went 1-1 all series long). And again, you are absolving Robinson of blame for his decrease in production. The series was knotted 2-2 after 4 games. In game 5, Robinson has 22 pts on 47% (down from his reg season #'s). AJ was 10-15, Elliott was 5-10 and Del negro was 4-9. Hakeem put up 42, 9, 8 and 5 on 63%. Are you really arguing that a guard scoring 30 on 47% (on shots created for him by the way) was more crucial than a center scoring 42 on 63%, against the position where your team is most dominant? In the closeout game the roleplayers didn't show up (outside of AJ), but neither did Robinson (19 ppg on 6-17). Hakeem had 39, 17 and 5 on 63%. His play was the difference.

You are basically trying to say the main difference was role players, and not Hakeem. That's like me saying the main reason the Spurs won in 03 was because Steven Jackson and others hit big 3's, as opposed to Duncan leading the team in basically every category. How does that make any sense?

[kingmalaki]

In your eyes Robinson was supposed to be the team's top 1v1 defender, be there simultaneously to cover the weak side, step into every defensive rotation and to boot be able to cover the perimeter... Some conveniently lofty expectations there... Oddly enough, that play you pointed out was completely miffed by Rodman not Robinson...

In my eyes, when the seires is knotted at 2-2, the Spurs probably win if Robinson, a great defender, keeps Hakeem from shooting 60% on him in the final 2 games. In my eyes, when the series is knotted at 2-2, the Spurs probably win if Robinson, a career 52% shooter (and 53% that season), doesn't shoot 47% and 35% to closeout the series.

Yes, Robinson's teammates failed him. But if he didn't have a drop in his production, or if he played adequate defense (no excuse to let a man hit 40 on you at over 60%), then the Spurs probably win that series because the games were all tight, as you already mentioned.

[Admiral]

IIRC, wasn't the Spurs strategy to stop everyone else and allow Amare to take shots? They won that series 4-1, so in other words letting Amare get off didn't hurt the team too much. You really can't say that about Hakeem in 95. If Robinson plays better defense the Spurs probably win.

The games in 95 were tight, and you are correct that Rockets role players were knocking down important shots. But you fail to acknowledge that in those tight games, the team still ran their offense through Hakeem, and Robinson couldn't stop him. That's also how the Rockets role players kept getting those wide open looks, because the Spurs had to send Robinson help (even though the myth around here is that Robinson went 1-1 all series long). And again, you are absolving Robinson of blame for his decrease in production. The series was knotted 2-2 after 4 games. In game 5, Robinson has 22 pts on 47% (down from his reg season #'s). AJ was 10-15, Elliott was 5-10 and Del negro was 4-9. Hakeem put up 42, 9, 8 and 5 on 63%. Are you really arguing that a guard scoring 30 on 47% (on shots created for him by the way) was more crucial than a center scoring 42 on 63%, against the position where your team is most dominant? In the closeout game the roleplayers didn't show up (outside of AJ), but neither did Robinson (19 ppg on 6-17). Hakeem had 39, 17 and 5 on 63%. His play was the difference.

You are basically trying to say the main difference was role players, and not Hakeem. That's like me saying the main reason the Spurs won in 03 was because Steven Jackson and others hit big 3's, as opposed to Duncan leading the team in basically every category. How does that make any sense?

I see your point, but in a tight series the difference almost always comes down to role players making plays. That was true in the Spurs' le runs (especially in 2003), and it was true in the Rockets' back-to-back les as well.

Nobody is discounting Olajuwon's historic performance. He was truly "in the zone," and he deserves credit for that. And David was certainly responsible for allowing him to have such a dynamic series. However, if David's supporting cast had been better we would've won the series despite that. It shouldn't all fall on David, but somehow it has.

[Phenomanul]

IIRC, wasn't the Spurs strategy to stop everyone else and allow Amare to take shots? They won that series 4-1, so in other words letting Amare get off didn't hurt the team too much. You really can't say that about Hakeem in 95. If Robinson plays better defense the Spurs probably win.

The games in 95 were tight, and you are correct that Rockets role players were knocking down important shots. But you fail to acknowledge that in those tight games, the team still ran their offense through Hakeem, and Robinson couldn't stop him. That's also how the Rockets role players kept getting those wide open looks, because the Spurs had to send Robinson help (even though the myth around here is that Robinson went 1-1 all series long). And again, you are absolving Robinson of blame for his decrease in production. The series was knotted 2-2 after 4 games. In game 5, Robinson has 22 pts on 47% (down from his reg season #'s). AJ was 10-15, Elliott was 5-10 and Del negro was 4-9. Hakeem put up 42, 9, 8 and 5 on 63%. Are you really arguing that a guard scoring 30 on 47% (on shots created for him by the way) was more crucial than a center scoring 42 on 63%, against the position where your team is most dominant? In the closeout game the roleplayers didn't show up (outside of AJ), but neither did Robinson (19 ppg on 6-17). Hakeem had 39, 17 and 5 on 63%. His play was the difference.

You are basically trying to say the main difference was role players, and not Hakeem. That's like me saying the main reason the Spurs won in 03 was because Steven Jackson and others hit big 3's, as opposed to Duncan leading the team in basically every category. How does that make any sense?

That's not what I'm saying at all... Hakeem was dominant... Game 5 aside, how do game winning daggers by other players not factor into the discussion???

They matter because they allowed Hakeem's team to move on....
They matter because Robinson is routinely blamed for losing the series...
They matter because Robinson's teammates could not do the same, when placed in identical situations...

The only saving grace for your perspective is that the Spurs' strategy sucked royally... They should have put Rodman on Olojuwon to pester him... Olojuwon would have put up amazing numbers regardless... but then that would have freed up Robinson to cover the weak side, and all those cutters to the basket... It would have cast Elliott into a "Bowenesque" role on Cassell, instead of allowing him to torch Avery repeatedly... in this role Robinson would have made an effort to jump out on 3 point shooters... something Rodman failed to do...

This is what the Spurs did in '05 to Amare and Nash...

[wekko368]

That's not what I'm saying at all...

Actually, that's precisely what you're saying.

The only saving grace for you perspective is that the Spurs' strategy sucked royally... They should have put Rodman on Olojuwon to pester him... Olojuwon would have gotten his...

If the Spurs tried this for the entire series, it's very possible the Rockets would've swept the Spurs and Olajuwon would've averaged over 60 ppg.

Like I said, we all saw how Olajuwon performed offensively against Robinson. Now imagine him against a defender who was shorter and had less length.

[Phenomanul]

Actually, that's precisely what you're saying.



If the Spurs tried this for the entire series, it's very possible the Rockets would've swept the Spurs and Olajuwon would've averaged over 60 ppg.

Like I said, we all saw how Olajuwon performed offensively against Robinson. Now imagine him against a defender who was shorter and had less length.

Extrapolate much? This confirms your lack of understanding of the game...

[wekko368]

Extrapolate much? This confirms your lack of understanding of the game...

I would love for you to explain how Rodman, a player that was both shorter and had less length than Robinson, would have more success than him in guarding Olajuwon.

[Phenomanul]

I would love for you to explain how Rodman, a player that was both shorter and had less length than Robinson, would have more success than him in guarding Olajuwon.

That's kind of the point... he wouldn't have contained him... but he would have pestered the out of him and that role would have motivated him to actually play in the series instead of tanking it....

If you see my simultaneous edit above... you'll also see the domino effect that such a strategy would have had on Robinson's defensive effectiveness on the rest of the Rockets' offense...

Afterall that's exactly what worked against the Suns in '05....

[wekko368]

That's kind of the point... he wouldn't have contained him... but he would have pestered the out of him and that role would have motivated him to actually play in the series instead of tanking it....

Please elaborate what you mean by "pester". Rodman was shorter and had less length than Robinson. Can you give a clear explanation as to how he'd be more effective?

Try not to be so vague.

If Rodman were guarding Olajuwon 1v1 the entire series, Robinson's defensive effectiveness would've been minimal. In some of those games, Olajuwon's fg% was more than 60% against Robinson, an elite defender.

And you think it would've been a good strategy to use an inferior defender?

[Phenomanul]

Please elaborate what you mean by "pester". Rodman was shorter and had less length than Robinson. Can you give a clear explanation as to how he'd be more effective?

Try not to be so vague.

If Rodman were guarding Olajuwon 1v1 the entire series, Robinson's defensive effectiveness would've been minimal. In some of those games, Olajuwon's fg% was more than 60% against Robinson, an elite defender.

And you think it would've been a good strategy to use an inferior defender?

It says exactly what it means... What Bowen does to guys like Bryant, Allen, Hamilton, Carter... you don't have to stop them, you only have to make them play outside of their comfort zone... Besides Rodman had a habit of getting under people's skin - he was a physical defender when motivated... that's all that was needed...

That switch would have conserved more of Robinson's energy for the offensive end... And defensively; he would have ultimately closed the lane for all other players not named Olojuwon...

[Phenomanul]

Anyways I don't have time to do this all night... I gotta catch some zzzzzzzzzzzz....

Peace... (nothing personal you know)...

[kingmalaki]

Olojuwon was a great player... how many times must I say it... What's laughable is the fact that you continue to attribute the loss squarely on Robinson's shoulders while ignoring the impact from all the Rockets players not named Olojuwon....

In your eyes Robinson was supposed to be the team's top 1v1 defender, be there simultaneously to cover the weak side, step into every defensive rotation and to boot be able to cover the perimeter... Some conveniently lofty expectations there... Oddly enough, that play you pointed out was completely miffed by Rodman not Robinson...

Olojuwon sure as didn't knock down those daggers for his teammates... somehow you fail to grasp the fact that his teammates were the ones that actually executed down the stretch (be it their talent, their clutchness, whatever... they made their shots!!)... those same opportunities created by Robinson's post game resulted in missed buckets by the Spurs' backcourt... And let me let you in on something else... they actually were more open on their attempts than their Rockets counterparts... but somehow because they failed to score this somehow reflects poorly on Robinson???.. flawless logic there Sherlock.




So then a team concept does factor in the offense?? Which is it?

The Spurs couldn't run that offense because outside shots weren't falling... not because Robinson was playing ineffectively inside... when outside shots don't fall the inside game becomes harder to impose... conversely, when those shots do fall the effectiveness of the inside game grows synergetically... that's the dichotic dynamic that played out for both teams... you conveniently praise the scheme while failing to see the subleties that can cause its demise...




Petty semantics... are you that insecure about Olojuwon's legacy???... The man won out... be happy about it... Quit using it as a knock on Robinson; particularly on a week in which his entry to the HoF is being celebrated...

I see your point, but in a tight series the difference almost always comes down to role players making plays. That was true in the Spurs' le runs (especially in 2003), and it was true in the Rockets' back-to-back les as well.

Nobody is discounting Olajuwon's historic performance. He was truly "in the zone," and he deserves credit for that. And David was certainly responsible for allowing him to have such a dynamic series. However, if David's supporting cast had been better we would've won the series despite that. It shouldn't all fall on David, but somehow it has.

Yes you can say that if the Spurs role players were better, then SA could have won. But can't you also say if Robinson was better (on either side of the ball), then SA could have won? Especially in the last two games, or the elimination game?

[howbouthemspurs]

that is a hard question!

[kingmalaki]

It says exactly what it means... What Bowen does to guys like Bryant, Allen, Hamilton, Carter... you don't have to stop them, you only have to make them play outside of their comfort zone... Besides Rodman had a habit of getting under people's skin - he was a physical defender when motivated... that's all that was needed...

That switch would have conserved more of Robinson's energy for the offensive end... And defensively; he would have ultimately closed the lane for all other players not named Olojuwon...

The problem with that comparison is that Hakeem was not a player that was easily rattled. If the Knicks and their thugball style weren't able to get under his skin, then I don't see it working with Rodman. That only works on players who allow themselves to be bothered (i.e. how Artest really doesn't get under Kobe's skin....because Kobe is too smart to fall for that). Rodman is too small to keep Hakeem out of his comfort zone. He can rise over Rodman whenever he likes.

Also, other Rockets weren't really in the lane that much. They gave the ball to Hakeem....either he scored or kicked it out to a 3 point shooter. So you are basically having david Robinson on the perimiter holding Robert Horry behind the 3-point line, and a worse defender holding Hakeem. Not smart.

[wekko368]

It says exactly what it means... What Bowen does to guys like Bryant, Allen, Hamilton, Carter... you don't have to stop them, you only have to make them play outside of their comfort zone...

It's no wonder that you're getting offended when I allude to the matchup between Olajuwon and Robinson. You're really underestimating almost every facet of Olajuwon's game.

Let's review. Against Rodman, Olajuwon has a height advantage, speed advantage, footwork advantage, and length advantage...not to mention a refined post game game and a good shooting range (~17 ft). The only advantage Rodman has is strength. And you think he could contain Olajuwon...

If you truly believe that, you'd be able to give a better explanation than "he'd pester Olajuwon like Bowen pesters Kobe". Perimeter defense is very different than post defense.

Maybe you're thinking that Rodman's physicality would throw Olajuwon off his game. If so, I'd like to point out that Olajuwon overcame an incredibly physical Knicks team in the 94 finals.

Besides Rodman had a habit of getting under people's skin - he was a physical defender when motivated... that's all that was needed...

After becoming Muslim, can you think of one time where Olajuwon lost his temper on the court or showed any sign of mental weakness?

That switch would have conserved more of Robinson's energy for the offensive end... And defensively; he would have ultimately closed the lane for all other players not named Olojuwon...

I honestly don't know how valid your "Robinson was fatigued" theory is. Maybe other Spurs fans can weigh in on that. He always seemed to be in great shape to me.

[ambchang]

One thing Rockets fans really have to understand, and I thought that with two championships and so many playoff games over the years that you would have gotten it, is that the playoffs revolves around matchup and exploiting weaknesses.

The 95 Spurs have a large number of weaknesses on their team:
1) The Spurs were a terrible shooting team. Avery Johnson doesn’t have PG range, he doesn’t even have PF range. Vinny Del Degro is a decent stop and pop shooter when he is wide open, but he doesn’t have SG range (3 pt range) when he is remotely being guarded, with the shorter 3-pt line, defenders can close out on him easily after a double team, and he can’t make any shots.
2) Dennis Rodman has always been an offensive liability, Robinson basically has to score his points. Making matters worse, he became a defensive liability by roaming around the lane to grab rebounds the whole series. Robinson didn’t just single cover Olajuwon, he had to attend to guys wide open close to the basket area because Rodman was not doing anything.
3) There are no finishers outside of Robinson and Elliott. Avery Johnson can penetrate the paint, but he can’t finish them to a degree that you had to collapse the paint on him.
4) Defensively, AJ is undersized, Del Negro is slow & undersized, Rodman decides not to play any. Basically, on defense, the Spurs are really having 3.5 people playing defense. (AJ, Elliott, and Robinson, plus half a Del Negro.

The Rockets on the other hand, were difficult to beat because:
1) Olajuwon was a man possessed, he drew in defenders, and any one of his guys on the court can take and make a 3 pter quickly. In fact, in the only game the Spurs outshot the Rockets in 3 pters, the Spurs won in a blowout fashion. Don’t come in and try to tell me that the only matchup was Robinson and Olajuwon; that shows an utter sense of ignorance to the game, as the whole Rockets offense was inside-out.
2) Every single one of the Rockets can play defense, with the exception of maybe Pete Chilcutt, who doesn’t even play that much.

Don’t come in and try to tell me that Clyde Drexler, Robert Horry, Kenny Smith, Mario Elie, and Sam Cassell doesn’t open up the middle for Olajuwon, because they did, and did it very well. The difficulty in guarding the Rockets back then was that if you single Olajuwon, he will score two points, if you double team him, the open man will make a 3, so it’s pick your poison.

And to say that Robinson has the same level of help in the form of Rodman, Vinny Del Negro, and Avery Johnson has got to be a joke. Avery Johnson was the Spurs 3rd best player, and he couldn’t even make the Rockets roster. Elliott choked two FTs in one of the games at home, in GAME 1.

Let’s break down the 3 pters made and results of each game.
Game 1 – Rockets 5, Spurs 2, Rockets won by 1.
Game 2 – Rockets 9, Spurs 4, Rockets won by 10.
Game 3 – Rockets 13, Spurs 9, Spurs won by 5.
Game 4 – Rockets 3, Spurs 4, Spurs won by 22.
Game 5 – Rockets 6, Spurs 2, Rockets won by 21.
Game 6 – Rockets 8, Spurs 2, Rockets won by 5.
Noticed that the only two games the Spurs won were the games that the Rockets didn’t double, triple, or even quadruple the number of 3PMs of the Spurs. And you guys are coming in and trying to say that Olajuwon and Robinson was the only matchup?

EDIT: BTW, do you know how Robinson did the game the Spurs made 9 3pters? He made 10 of 15 shots, scoring 29 points. Do you know why he was able to do that? Maybe because the lanes got wider because he wasn't constantly being doubled and tripled because the Rockets player had to get back on their man.