RJ-haters roll-call!

[objective]

To be fair, no one knew that Scola was going to be as good as he is (except maybe Manu). The Spurs were, retrospectively, more interested in replacing Horry than having another Oberto on the team.

sorry, but there were plenty of people both lay and otherwise who loved the idea of Scola on the Spurs.

The Spurs were, not retrospectively, foolish, because they couldn't afford to tread water and not improve the talent level of the roster while the rest of the league was gaining ground on them.

[Blackjack]

Come on Blackjack, did the Spurs knew what they were doing when they junked Scola and hitched their big-man hopes on repeated deals for Bonner?

Only recently did Buford even admit that it was a mistake with Scola.

Just because the Spurs are our team and have made so many good choices and had good luck, doesn't mean they can't make mistakes.

And that's what RJ's contract is in severe danger of being, if not outright already is.

I didn't say they were infallible and dead-on with regards to personnel. I said they don't do anything they can't afford.

I firmly believe the Spurs saved the money in the short term and structured things as such because they believed it gave them the best chance to compete for a championship now, while maintaining a financially manageable situation down the road.

Until or unless there's some Gasol-like trade that comes available, something that just puts the Spurs right back atop the league, and the Spurs don't pull the trigger because of RJ ... I'm going to just believe it is what it is and nothing more than a champion's inevitable decent.

If the Spurs don't mind paying for a better but not-all-that-great shot, more power to 'em. But mediocrity's coming, and there ain't no getting around that.

[Blackjack]

$6 mill for Hill's new deal?

Who knows if he's still here?

Tony or George could be gone by as soon as this season's deadline. Never know.

[objective]

If Tony really wants to be a Spur there really isn't a huge difference between $15-20 mil.

Not a huge difference? Over 6 years you're talking $30 million, that's what I'd call a huge difference.

Parker already did the Spurs a favor by signing the deal he did and meeting them at 66 if my memory is correct.

[ohmwrecker]

sorry, but there were plenty of people both lay and otherwise who loved the idea of Scola on the Spurs.

Sure, but nobody really expected Scola to be this good. Your hind-sighted 20/20 isn't going to change that fact. The Scola debacle has looked like a bigger mistake with each passing year. Scola gets better and Bonner, exponentially, does not. I thought it was a bad move then, but it has presently become "The worst FO mistake in franchise history".

[Blackjack]

I think I remember Pop and/or Tim imploring Holt to s out another $4M to get the deal done with Tony, IIRC.

[MaNu4Tres]

$6 mill for Hill's new deal?

A 6 million salary for Hill's first year on a front-loaded contract for 5 years exceeds 35 million dollars.

More than reasonable for Hill.

[ElNono]

Who knows if he's still here?

Tony or George could be gone by as soon as this season's deadline. Never know.

Sure. But unless he's out of the league by the time he needs to sign his next contract, Georgie is going to command more money than that (all things with the new CBA being equal)...

[objective]

Who knows if he's still here?

Tony or George could be gone by as soon as this season's deadline. Never know.

Yes they could.

And what educated observers expect either to be traded for if those observers were told that they were definatley being moved?

A small forward.

Why?

Because of how unsatisfactory RJ has been.

[ElNono]

A 6 million salary for Hill's first year on a front-loaded contract for 5 years exceeds 35-38 million dollars.

More than reasonable for Hill.

Really? If a 30 year old washed up RJ can get a $10 million deal?

[ohmwrecker]

Not a huge difference? Over 6 years you're talking $30 million, that's what I'd call a huge difference.

Parker already did the Spurs a favor by signing the deal he did and meeting them at 66 if my memory is correct.

The point is, if he wants to be here, there is room to play. The few teams that would be willing to give him a max deal are, most likely, not teams he is going to want to play for.

[ElNono]

The point is, if he wants to be here, there is room to play. The few teams that would be willing to give him a max deal are, most likely, not teams he is going to want to play for.

New York is not a team he would want to play for?

[MaNu4Tres]

Really? If a 30 year old washed up RJ can get a $10 million deal?

What do you think is a reasonable contract for Hill as of right now if he was a free agent?

I'm curious to know.

Please enlighten me.

[objective]

A 6 million salary for Hill's first year on a front-loaded contract for 5 years exceeds 35-38 million dollars.

More than reasonable for Hill.

I would argue it's conservative, not generous.

Besides, I wouldn't expect Hill or his agent to give the Spurs a discount either after the Spurs refused Hill the opportunity to make up to %120 of the scale by not even giving him the chance to meet incentives.

[ohmwrecker]

New York is not a team he would want to play for?

I think they would rather have Paul and Melo, but, failing that, they are going to have pay some other players + Parker big money to be a contender.

[jjktkk]

Pop said the same thing to Mighty Mouse, and he quickly went from being a pretty good backup point guard to the most useless player player the Spurs had in years. Relatively speaking, the Spurs have been circling the bowl ever since Pop got it in his head to tell guys to just keep chucking. Telling RJ to do it is just stupid. RJs offense isn't what's going to make a difference to this team.

The difference between Mighty Mouse and RJ was Mighty Mouse was a one trick pony, as far scoring goes, wheres RJ can shoot from the outside as well as take it to the hole. Why would the Spurs have RJ completely rebuild his shooting form over the Summer and not want him to shoot more? Should Pop just tell RJ, "don't shoot unless you absolutely have to"? Plus alot of players play harder on defense if their offense is rolling. If RJ could improve on the offensive end, how could it not make a difference for the Spurs to have a 4th or 5th scoring option? It would lower the double teams on Duncan, Giniboli, Parker, etc... if defenders have to at least be aware of RJ on offense.

[Blackjack]

Sure. But unless he's out of the league by the time he needs to sign his next contract, Georgie is going to command more money than that (all things with the new CBA being equal)...

I wasn't speaking to his next contract, just that this team's composition is in no way set in stone.

It's just ridiculously premature to project future salary for a team that's on the decline and their centerpiece is year-to-year.

God forbid there's some kind of injury or Parker's out the door regardless, all of this hand wringing will be irrelevant.

I don't have a problem with people not liking RJ, the way he fits or the deal he signed, but the only way to be so adamant against it is to say you know what the future holds.

That's why I'm taking a wait-and-see approach and remaining indifferent -- never wanted RJ on the team, but I just don't see the forgone doomsday conclusion being suggested.

[ElNono]

What do you think is a reasonable contract for Hill as of right now if he was a free agent?

I'm curious to know.

Please enlighten me.

$8-$10 millions?

It's easy to say the Spurs have one of the best (if not the best as I've heard) backcourts in the league, include Hill in that tandem, then when it comes to payday not reflect it there...

[Blackjack]

Yes they could.

And what educated observers expect either to be traded for if those observers were told that they were definatley being moved?

A small forward.

Why?

Because of how unsatisfactory RJ has been.

Hill, yes. That'd be for a small forward, seemingly.

Parker? That's pretty much doomsday. That's the proverbial white flag, unless they've got their own Jerry West somewhere.

[ElNono]

I think they would rather have Paul and Melo, but, failing that, they are going to have pay some other players + Parker big money to be a contender.

Tony has the rings already. He's not going to play forever either.
I think if he gets a good offer and stay a contender, he'll think about it, but from there to extrapolate he'll be leaving $30 million on the table for a chance to a ring, I think it's a bit unrealistic.

[ElNono]

Parker? That's pretty much doomsday. That's the proverbial white flag, unless they've got their own Jerry West somewhere.

Agreed. Tony leaving = turn off the lights on the Duncan era.

[ElNono]

I wasn't speaking to his next contract, just that this team's composition is in no way set in stone.

It's just ridiculously premature to project future salary for a team that's on the decline and their centerpiece is year-to-year.

God forbid there's some kind of injury or Parker's out the door regardless, all of this hand wringing will be irrelevant.

I don't have a problem with people not liking RJ, the way he fits or the deal he signed, but the only way to be so adamant against it is to say you know what the future holds.

That's why I'm taking a wait-and-see approach and remaining indifferent -- never wanted RJ on the team, but I just don't see the forgone doomsday conclusion being suggested.

Yeah, I agree Oct 27 can't come soon enough.

Until then, bear with us...

[Blackjack]

Yeah, I agree Oct 27 can't come soon enough.

Until then, bear with us...

Bearing.

[objective]

What do you think is a reasonable contract for Hill as of right now if he was a free agent?

I'm curious to know.

Please enlighten me.

as a comparison

The Bulls signed RFA JJ Re to a deal starting at $7.25 as a poison pill to the Magic. The Magic clearly don't care about money (see Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, etc), so they matched.

Re never averaged double digits any year in his career, is one dimensional, undersized compared to many 2s (not much bigger than Hill), and has 14 career starts in 4 years compared to Hill starting 50 in two.

I think that's the beginning of the kind of deals to be offered to Hill, not the end.

[ohmwrecker]

Tony has the rings already. He's not going to play forever either.
I think if he gets a good offer and stay a contender, he'll think about it, but from there to extrapolate he'll be leaving $30 million on the table for a chance to a ring, I think it's a bit unrealistic.

If I am understanding you correctly, the fact that Tony already has rings is irrelevant because if he does go to NYC, he will join Amare and possibly, Melo who are hungry for rings. Which is why I think they would prefer Paul, honestly.
It all boils down to Parker believing the Spurs can stay relevant for a few more years. It's pretty simple. If he doesn't think they can, he will probably leave and it really won't matter. I think he would prefer to stay a Spur, but that decision will hinge on how they perform this season. The future is happening right now.