Did TD EVER have a worst supporting cast than this?

[LkrFan]

in all seriousness what's your beef? Kobe is still going to go down as one of the top 15-20 players of all-time, first ballot hall-of-fame...any fan should be proud.

What the..I don't have any beef. I already know where Kobe stands in NBA history.

[racm]

Disagree. Kobe won back to back les without a HOF teammate. Neither Magic, Bird, nor MJ did that. Duncan actually had one and couldn't repeat. The above you mentioned is moot IMO.

The real reason Duncan didn't repeat in 2000 even with a still serviceable DRob was because Pop shut him down due to a torn meniscus. Had he played he'd be out of the league by now.

He had a dominant frontcourt duo, a Sixth Man of the Year, and an HOF coach during that time....

When Food Stamps was REALLY the #1 option, he missed the playoffs one year in his prime, quit on his team the next year, and then started demanding a trade.....

Meanwhile, when Duncan was the unquestioned top dog, he rang multiple times and EARNED two MVP's (unlike the one pity MVP that Food Stamps was handed)....

Pau's also HOF-worthy. Not based on his NBA career alone, no, but being a very successful international player (two silver medals) should put him into consideration.

[Killakobe81]

Where the were you? Jordan > Kobe was in full force a few years ago, when those clueless Kobe fans came out and proclaim so, and ESPN is trying to generate some viewer ship. Over the years, even those clueless Laker fans realized how stupid it was, and that movement died.

Kobe vs. Duncan is not close my friend. Kobe vs. Halivcek is close. Kobe's successful teams (by that I mean WCF+) are all loaded teams compared to the rest of the league in their respective times, where as Duncan's successful teams have been mediocre to great. Look at Duncan's 2000-2004 teams, the support was really nothing overly special. Are those good supporting casts? Of course, but they were by no means great. The 08 to current group is mediocre, but that doesn't matter, because Duncan is past his prime, TOSB if you will.

I dont get how it's not close. You are the same person that said Stockton is better than Nash based on their CAREER. duncan has had a decent resurgence the past few years ...but when you look at careers an argument can be made (Colin cowherd is one that has said this as well) that it's not close at allin favor of Kobe. I still think it's relatively close but the past 4 seasons have pushed the needle further in Kobe's direction. But nice try. Even if you spur fans win the argument that Duncan was the POTY of the last decade from 2008-now Kobe has been better and if Kobe was second in that debate he pretty much closes that argument with 4 superior years to Duncan. Unless of course regular season team records (win%) are all that matters ...

[ambchang]

Stop my . Right now it's still Kobe's team.

[ambchang]

Disagree. Kobe won back to back les without a HOF teammate. Neither Magic, Bird, nor MJ did that. Duncan actually had one and couldn't repeat. The above you mentioned is moot IMO.

Of course they haven't made the HOF yet, they have to be retired for 5 years before they are even eligible.

Pau Gasol is a lock for the HoF BTW.

["Brett Favre"]

Disagree. Kobe won back to back les without a HOF teammate. Neither Magic, Bird, nor MJ did that. Duncan actually had one and couldn't repeat. The above you mentioned is moot IMO.

Why wasn't Kobe named MVP when he had Shaq or Gasol at their dominant points? You can point to Finals MVPs which only count for 7 games at most.

[ambchang]

I dont get how it's not close. You are the same person that said Stockton is better than Nash based on their CAREER. duncan has had a decent resurgence the past few years ...but when you look at careers an argument can be made (Colin cowherd is one that has said this as well) that it's not close at allin favor of Kobe. I still think it's relatively close but the past 4 seasons have pushed the needle further in Kobe's direction. But nice try. Even if you spur fans win the argument that Duncan was the POTY of the last decade from 2008-now Kobe has been better and if Kobe was second in that debate he pretty much closes that argument with 4 superior years to Duncan. Unless of course regular season team records (win%) are all that matters ...

No doubt Kobe has been better from 2008 to now, but even over a career, what Duncan accomplished from 1999 to 2005, Kobe has done nothing remotely even close to that level of accomplishment.

Kobe was given a team of weak supporting cast, and he missed the playoff once and got ousted in the 1st round twice. Duncan got a weak supporting cast from 1999 to 2004, and he got ousted in the first round once because he didn't play in it, and then got 50+ win seasons, WCSFs, and even a ring during that time.

People forgot how crap that Spurs team was in 2000 to 2004 without Duncan, because they won a championship and have the name SJax, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili in 2003 and 2004, but really look into that team, watch the games they played. David Robinson, clearly way over the hill at that point, was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on that team. Robinson, at that point in his career, wasn't anything close to a Pau Gasol of 2008 to 2010, or even a Pau Gasol of today, he wasn't even at Bynum's level today, and he was by far the 2nd best player on that team.

[ambchang]

BTW, don't get the Nash and Stockton thing, because to me, it's not even a debate, Stockton is far and away much better than Nash, both from a career perspective, and in their primes.

[Killakobe81]

Saying who had the better "prime" or who accomplished more with less doesnt make Duncan greater than Kobe. Those type of factors gain merit in MVP discussions ...and Duncan got his MVP's for it. Career wise Kobe is clearly been the better player for a larger number of years. From 1999-2005 It's Duncan. Since then It's kobe. I wont go back in to my reasons why but MVP voting, ALL NBA, Scoring, Rings and Finals MVP's all favor Kobe since then.

Hakeem had a better prime than Duncan, Shaq too. I think Duncan had the better career.

[Spursfan092120]

LOL Tim Duncan made the WCF with Terry Porter, Antonio Daniels, and Danny Ferry as starters and with decrepit Porter the third best player on the team.

This....

TIM>KOBE... period

[ambchang]

Saying who had the better "prime" or who accomplished more with less doesnt make Duncan greater than Kobe. Those type of factors gain merit in MVP discussions ...and Duncan got his MVP's for it. Career wise Kobe is clearly been the better player for a larger number of years. From 1999-2005 It's Duncan. Since then It's kobe. I wont go back in to my reasons why but MVP voting, ALL NBA, Scoring, Rings and Finals MVP's all favor Kobe since then.

Hakeem had a better prime than Duncan, Shaq too. I think Duncan had the better career.

That doesn't make sense.

By all-nba, scoring, Malone > Duncan.

As for rings, it's a team accomplishment

Finals MVP, Duncan's got 3, Kobe's got 2. If you want to say Kobe > Duncan since 2005, sure, I can give you that. But over their respective careers, Duncan is better.

Since 2005, Lebron James, Wade, Nowitzki, Rose and Durant are all greater than Duncan, I won't say any of them are necessarily better than Duncan, or even close to his career accomplishments, because you just took out Duncan's absolute prime.

[LkrFan]

No doubt Kobe has been better from 2008 to now, but even over a career, what Duncan accomplished from 1999 to 2005, Kobe has done nothing remotely even close to that level of accomplishment.

Kobe was given a team of weak supporting cast, and he missed the playoff once and got ousted in the 1st round twice. Duncan got a weak supporting cast from 1999 to 2004, and he got ousted in the first round once because he didn't play in it, and then got 50+ win seasons, WCSFs, and even a ring during that time.

People forgot how crap that Spurs team was in 2000 to 2004 without Duncan, because they won a championship and have the name SJax, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili in 2003 and 2004, but really look into that team, watch the games they played. David Robinson, clearly way over the hill at that point, was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on that team. Robinson, at that point in his career, wasn't anything close to a Pau Gasol of 2008 to 2010, or even a Pau Gasol of today, he wasn't even at Bynum's level today, and he was by far the 2nd best player on that team.

Two comments:

1) We tanked to get Bynum. Anybody that saw that Laker team play knows the tank job was in full effect. Making the playoffs that year would have been futile.
2) Those two first round exits were to a loaded, clearly superior Suns team. , if not for Horry's cheap shot in 2007 Duncan is sitting on 3 rangs. Real talk. They had you guys on the ropes until Horry's kill shot.

[LkrFan]

BTW, don't get the Nash and Stockton thing, because to me, it's not even a debate, Stockton is far and away much better than Nash, both from a career perspective, and in their primes.

Agreed. I'd take Stockton over Nash if I were a GM needing to draft a PG.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Could you imagine a Shaq, Duncan or Lebron in their primes posting a 42-40 record? I can't.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

1974-75: 38-44, Missed the Playoffs (Age 27)
1975-76: 40-42, Missed the Playoffs (Age 28)

[DontStopBelieving]

I know its probably already been said but...






























worse*

[Jodelo]

I will try to spin it...

But did Shaq, Duncan, Lebron or heck even Dirk missed the PO (in their primes)?

[LkrFan]

But did Shaq, Duncan, Lebron or heck even Dirk missed the PO (in their primes)?

Last time. The Lakers TANKED to get Bynum. There's a difference between tanking and not being good enough to make the playoffs. Understand?

[Jodelo]

Last time. The Lakers TANKED to get Bynum. There's a difference between tanking and not being good enough to make the playoffs. Understand?

Ok, now they tanked?

[Killakobe81]

1. Kareem missed two and he is greater than Everyone mentioned on this list sans MJ ...and that is even debatable.

2. Duncan was never head coached by: Del Harris, Rambis or a "diminished" Rudy T. If PJ stayed that never happens. Kobe missing playoffs. Kobe was also hurt and missed games but dont let facts blind your hate. But bottom line he did miss the playoffs.

3. Of course rings are a team accomplishment, no . But out of major team sports NBA is most impacted by the stars. But the hypocrisy of Duncan supportes are ridiculous.

Duncan disciple: Championships are overated, although it's one of the reasons Duncan is greater than Malone. It's a team accomplishment so counting rings are dumb.

Riddle me this? IF winning a le is a team achievement, then how the is missing the playoffs a individual one? and if one of the pillars of the argument is Duncan's career win%, never losing a Finals and never missing the playoffs only career stats, advanced stats and individual honors are left.

Rings matter, when discussing HOF players. Period. Spur fan just hate 5>4 ...hence plenty of the hate on here.

[LkrFan]

Ok, now they tanked?

Yes. It was clear as day what they were doing. It worked.

[LkrFan]

1. Kareem missed two and he is greater than Everyone mentioned on this list sans MJ ...and that is even debateable.

2. Duncan was never head coached by: Del Harris, Rambis or a "diminished" Rudy T. If PJ stayed that never happens. Kobe missing playoffs. Kobe was also hurt and missed games but dont let facts blind your hate. But bottom line he did miss the playoffs.

3. Of course rings are a team accomplishment, no . But out of major team sports NBA is most impacted by the stars. But the hypocrisy of Duncan supportes are ridiculous.

Duncan disciple: Championships are overated, although it's one of the reasons Duncan is greater than Malone. It's a team accomplishment so counting rings are dumb.

Riddle me this? IF winning a le is a team achievement, then how the is missing the playoffs a individual one? and if one of the pillars of the argument is Duncan's career win%, never losing a Finals and never missing the playoffs only career stats, advanced stats and individual honors are left.

Rings matter, when discussing HOF players. Period. Spur fan just hate 5>4 ...hence plenty of the hate on here.

Killa with the indisputable goods. Props.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

2000-2001 and 2001-2002 were pretty damn weak Duncan supporting casts.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Riddle me this? IF winning a le is a team achievement, then how the is missing the playoffs a individual one? and if one of the pillars of the argument is Duncan's career win%, never losing a Finals and never missing the playoffs only career stats, advanced stats and individual honors are left.

Because one player can't do the first, but certainly CAN do the second, if he's worth his salt. , Iverson probably made the playoffs 2/3 times with worse casts than Kobes YEAR OF FAILURE. His Finals Team may have been worse.
/goods

[LkrFan]

2000-2001 and 2001-2002 were pretty damn weak Duncan supporting casts.

Weaker than this?



Pop quiz: How many made an all star team? One. Bonus question: How many are still in the league?

[LkrFan]

But did Shaq, Duncan, Lebron or heck even Dirk missed the PO (in their primes)?

Unlike those players, when Kobe won, he always repeated the following year as champion.