Horry's Early Bird Rights

[Kori Ellis]

Isn't the LLE going to go up? And can't the Spurs also contribute something like 350K(or more) to his buyout?

$1.6M is just an estimate and yes they can pay around $350K towards it.

[ChumpDumper]

you can't renounce early bird rights after 1 season because you don't have them.

You renounce the rights to that player.

After one season, they are called Non-Bird because that is the rights exception you are limited to using on that player if you are over the cap.

After two seasons, they are called Early-Bird because the player can now be signed using that exception.

After three seasons, they are called Full Birdbecause that exception can be used.

They are the same rights -- they just qualify a player for different exceptions as time goes on -- and if they are renounced at any time, the team give up the right to use whatever exceptions those rights qualify the player for until the following July 1 - in Horry's case it was the Non-Bird exception.

[whottt]

It didn't mean a thing except that whottt didn't know what he was attempting to discuss.

Bull ...I was under the impression we had his EB rights and what little I have read of the cap backed that impression up...

My question was...and still is...if there isn't some loophole that has caused us to lose them...

You guys are certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that we haven't...I however, realize, that the two people that are the most certain are a guy that wanted Jason Kidd(Chump probably wanted him to)...and a guy/it that loves chokers...neither of whom noticed the beneficial situation with Ferry...

The purpose of my question is to make sure nothing is being overlooked...because of Ludden's comments...I've never seen him wrong on the Spurs cap situation...I have seen ya'll get caught with your pants down.

[2centsworth]

Whott,

Why don't you just call Ludden and ask him? I would do it for you but don't know wth you guys are talking about.

[whottt]

They are the same rights -- just different

Chump and MB...

From Coon's cap faq(I might as well become the rightest person the board, even when it comes to the cap, because kryptonite is boring):

Terms for qualifying for EBR:Own free agent, 2 seasons without changing teams as a free agent

Terms for qualifying for BR:Own free agent, 3 seasons without changing teams as a free agent


That's all it says....it doesn't say you have to go unrenounced for 2 years or 3 years to qualify...just says you have to be with the team without changing teams(other than trade).

Owned..

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, and now that MB has a nice ale and stoogie to relax with out on the patio as well as MB's ladyfriend on the way, renouncing a player matters because if a team's own free agents did not factor into that team's total team salary figure then a team that had a bunch of free agents (and would be under the cap if the team was not hit with a cap charge for their rights) could sign other teams' free agents first before re-signing their own. Hence the reason that renouncing Horry mattered last summer. The Spurs had to renounce Horry's rights in order to clear cap room. In doing so, the Spurs lost his prior tenure with the team until July 1st of this year. Yes, it didn't really matter then since he only had been with the team for 1 season. But now, it does matter since the Spurs want to use Early Bird rights to retain him.

The point of this is that the "June 30 thing" does exist and is not a figment of my imagination.

[ChumpDumper]

That's all it says....it doesn't say you have to go unrenounced for 2 years or 3 years to qualify...just says you have to be with the team without changing teams(other than trade).

No .

Glad you finally figured that out.

Had you actually read any of our posts you would have known that this morning.

[Marcus Bryant]

Where the renouncing/cap charge really screws up teams is when you have a player for whom you have Early Bird or full Bird rights as well as a player who you've had for only a season who is unwilling to re-sign for whatever you have left over after you renounce them. Since Horry was willing to go from a $5 million annual salary to a minimum one or whatever then it didn't hurt the Spurs. But if Horry had a significant offer last summer from another club it would've screwed up the Spurs' plans and they likely would have lost him, because they couldn't give him a new contract with a raise off of his old salary.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, we're almost lucky Horry tanked against the Lakers.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Bull ...I was under the impression we had his EB rights and what little I have read of the cap backed that impression up...

whott.

I don't know everything that was discussed on pages 2-4, but...

We never had his Early Bird rights last summer to renounce. The Early Bird rights stipulates only that a player must be a member of the same team for two years prior to being EB eligible.

We've reached that point now with Horry, and hence have his rights.

As for Ludden... BFD. He said we weren't going to make any trades at the deadline in February, either. I'd reckon there's at least 3 and probably in reality 4 people on this site who could dance circles around Johnny Ludden when it comes to the CBA.