I don't know.
When you look more closely at these stats, it's quite strange.
Spurs are 9-5 against .500+ teams and 20-6 overall but :
- They have lost 2 games against .500- teams when they played them (Suns and Bobcats)
- They have lost 2 games against curently .500- teams (Bobcats and Warriors)
I haven't put this link because I agree or disagree with you (I haven't read this thread) but because nba.com hasn't the same stats than yours.
Yeah, some of these stats are kinda fishy... we might have to do our own research. I was just using the example (different numbers than nba.com) to exemplify that the Suns' streak and record aren't all just a fluke to be written off because the best of the West have similar records against +.500 teams.
well, that was "some bag" and "seguspur". not me. i will wait until the playoffs to make my ultimate judgement. but from their past, and the several games ive seen of them this season, they still rely too much on the jumpshot, play minimal defense in comparison to all other championship teams, both past and present, are a poor rebounding team, and are not capable of winning a game with their defense. thats what ive seen so far, and what history has shown us. true, things can change, but i saw very similar stats last season, in terms of their efficiency, etc... but they still did not past the WCF. and they really shouldnt have even been in the WCF to begin with. they were incredibly lucky that they Lakers didnt beat them in the first round. they better pray they dont see the Lakers this year too, because the Lakers have looked awful good. I actually see them as being more of a contender for a championship than the Suns. i personally think the 3 best teams in the West are the Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers, but I dont think the Lakers have enough firepower to beat the Spurs and Mavs.
anyways, back to the point, i will wait till the end of the season and the playoffs to make my final judgement. but ive seen probably about 10 or 11 games of theirs this season, and from what ive seen, im not impressed with that defense at all.
You're full of crap. If you watched that many, than you would know better. You're essentually telling me that you've seen close to half their games when not even a half-a-dozen of them have been on national television.
Wait, wait... here comes the "I have League Pass" reply
I've seen every game this season and as someone who's been a statistician and sportswriter for five years, I can tell you without any hesitation that they do play defense and play it for extended periods of time, but, at least in the early part of their season, couldn't rebound. They have been, let's see if it keeps up against good rebounding teams.
Defense isn't the issue, and for you to say such in the face of the Hollinger adjusted stats and efficiency rankings only goes further to unqualify your critiques.
Did you look at the adjusted stats? You know, based on a level playing field where style of play can't greatly affect a teams PPG when compared to another's contrasting style of play and its PPG.
San Antonio ranked 2nd in defensive efficiency, Dallas ranks 7th, Phoenix ranks 9th.
So basically, this all goes back to the statement I made earlier in this or another thread on the topic.
San Antonio > Dallas > Phoenix.
San Antonio is tops, followed by Dallas team that may or may not be any better than a vastly improving Phoenix team.
Spurs greater than Mavericks greater than/equal to Suns.
But that's right, you're such an authority on basketball that your opinion is to be exhaulted above those of paid professionals (Hollinger) and a fan who literally watches and/or tapes every Suns game, not for enjoyment only, but to review and breakdown the flim to analyze strengths and weaknesses, and has done such for the past four years...
While the Spurs, Mavs, Jazz and Suns have all arrived at basically the same place a third of the way into the season, the Spurs have been the only team to not need an extended win streak. As of last night's win, that is the 4th 4-5 game win streak this season, compared to 8 by the Jazz, 11 by the Mavs and now 15 by the Suns in order to reach their current records.
When you consider that TD is playing career low minutes while the stars on the other teams are logging the same if not more minutes than last year, the consistency of the Spurs is seen as an advantage. IMO, I'll take a team that goes 4-1 every 5 games than one that goes 5-5 then 10-0. At some point you can't count on hot streaks to keep you in the le hunt.
On a side note, speaking of winning streaks, what is more important at this early point in the season- the opponents record at the time they played or their current record now that there is a decent sample size? If we go by current records, the 15 game win streak only has two current .500+ teams, Houston and Orlando, and both of those clubs are playing .500 or less in their last 10 games. Yes, 15 game win streaks are impressive, and the Suns definitely have the hot hand right now, but let's not assume that the conference goes through PHX just because they beat the teams they were supposed to beat.
That's like saying SA is not a contender because they lost to Charlotte at home in the 8th game of the season, playing their 8th game and 3rd B2B in a 14 day time frame. Early season results are always skewed, and no sane, rational follower of the NBA ever thought that the Suns would not be a part of the West elite.
Well if the Phoenix defense really is getting better that's great for them but rebounding needs to improve. The main problem in their defense is Nash. Nash is a horrible defender (at least in terms of guarding TP). TP always gets by Nash with no trouble. The defense at the PG spot needs to improve.
My only worries about the Sun's defense is the same worries I have about the Mav's defense. Most teams are capable of playing good defense in situations but unless you play good, hard defense most of the game it will come back to bite you in the ass in the playoffs. Avery had the Mavs playing hard on defense all last season so when the playoffs came around it wasn't such a big adjustment for them to continue playing hard defense. I haven't seen that yet with the Mavs this season. I haven't seen enough Suns games to be able to make an assessment on their defense but I'm guessing (from what you're saying and their stats) they're playing better defense in situations when it counts. I just don't think that will cut it in the playoffs. As you recall, the Suns played "balls out" defense in the first half of game 6 vs. the Mavs. I was amazed at how hard and well they played "D" that first half. But it was obvious that it absolutely wore them out cuz they had NOTHING left in the 2nd half. This is why the Spurs have been successful for so long. They play good defense throughout games and throughout the regular season. The Mavs were like that last year as well. Until the Suns learn this, I think they will have problems. Yes, I understand that they play a different style which might not lend itself to playing hard on defense as much (cuz they want the other team to jack the ball up quickly) but I think it will be an issue. I'm concerned about the Mav's D thus far this season as well. They haven't played as consistently as last season and I'm hoping it's just the new guys still learning the rotations.
This thread is ridiculous. How do I know the Suns would beat the Mavs in a series? Because I 've seen numerous games from both teams now, and the Suns are just BETTER! Better talent, better chemistry, better execution.
I don't need to over-analyze the stats of their first 25 games, its obvious just by WATCHING the two teams play: Phoenix is better!
I agree with this. I've said such and have been criticized by other more rah-rah type of Suns fans for it. Still...
Again, I've already addressed this. I've tried to get the point out that this streak should be considered more of a blessing than a sign.On a side note, speaking of winning streaks, what is more important at this early point in the season- the opponents record at the time they played or their current record now that there is a decent sample size? If we go by current records, the 15 game win streak only has two current .500+ teams, Houston and Orlando, and both of those clubs are playing .500 or less in their last 10 games. Yes, 15 game win streaks are impressive, and the Suns definitely have the hot hand right now, but let's not assume that the conference goes through PHX just because they beat the teams they were supposed to beat.
Still, I'll not sit back and allow moronic homers of other teams, who have watched very little of the Suns this season, to pick apart the Suns as though they are an authority on the matter.
I, and others, have provided stats showing that the Suns do in fact play defense and do so almost on par with Dallas, so Maverick trolls who say Dallas is here, but the Suns are nowhere close simply need to be put in their place.
Rebounding is still, and likely will remain their biggest issue. Still, I have hope they can improve to a top-12 rebounding team throughout the year. They have taken some quality steps toward such during this streak. I hope it continues...
I don't think any fan has gone this far; to say that a good team isn't a contender because they lost to a few bad teams.That's like saying SA is not a contender because they lost to Charlotte at home in the 8th game of the season, playing their 8th game and 3rd B2B in a 14 day time frame. Early season results are always skewed, and no sane, rational follower of the NBA ever thought that the Suns would not be a part of the West elite.
Yes, I've said early season wins/losses and their statistics are scewed.
And yes, I agree with you last statement. Suns need to rebound better to win it, but even without, they are still in the discussion and, as the Suns showed last year, it's a long season frought with injuries. No team can count on being completely healthy and if the Suns happen to get a favorable matchup because of an injury to the opposing teams star, then they could very well stand a chace.
Still, you can't count on that, so it' best that they focus on attacking the defensive glass as hard as they can and go from there.
Mav trolls remind me of those posuers from the pre-paid wireless commercials. They are incapable of recognizing anything other than their fawning and blind allegiance to The Big Hasselhoff.
I've never understood how Nash has always had trouble keeping guys in front of him. He's certainly quick enough on offense. It's the only thing I don't miss about him being a Mav. He was an incredible defensive liability.
He's quick, but doesn't have great lateral movement. At least not going backwards...
thats right. im the top ing authority. you and other sportswriters. anyone who PLAYS the game of basketball, knows a of a lot more than any sportswriter will ever know. the only sportswriters/analysts i give any credibility to are the ones who are actually played in the sport that they write about. for instance, Charles Barkley. the man may seem biased to some, but he knows what hes talking about. for years, he always said the Mavericks couldnt win because they couldnt rebound and play defense. well, in 02-03, there were plenty of stats showing that they were a much improved defensive team, much like you are showing me about the Suns. however, stats dont tell the whole story. all you had to do was watch them, and realize, while their defense was improved, those stats were misleading, and they were still not a good defensive team, and were a piss poor rebounding team against GOOD rebounding teams, much like the Suns. ive seen quite a bit of the Suns, and their defense is not the slightest big impressive, especially against GOOD ing teams. its one thing to beat the out of teams like Golden State and Toronto. you cant judge their performance against teams like those, and think it will work against elite teams, because it doesnt. but so far, they havent fared well against elite teams, like the Mavs and Spurs. granted, its still the regular season, and there is a lot of basketball left to be played, including the playoffs. but so far, it has not been impressive at all, against teams that actually matter.You're full of crap. If you watched that many, than you would know better. You're essentually telling me that you've seen close to half their games when not even a half-a-dozen of them have been on national television.
Wait, wait... here comes the "I have League Pass" reply
I've seen every game this season and as someone who's been a statistician and sportswriter for five years, I can tell you without any hesitation that they do play defense and play it for extended periods of time, but, at least in the early part of their season, couldn't rebound. They have been, let's see if it keeps up against good rebounding teams.
Defense isn't the issue, and for you to say such in the face of the Hollinger adjusted stats and efficiency rankings only goes further to unqualify your critiques.
Did you look at the adjusted stats? You know, based on a level playing field where style of play can't greatly affect a teams PPG when compared to another's contrasting style of play and its PPG.
San Antonio ranked 2nd in defensive efficiency, Dallas ranks 7th, Phoenix ranks 9th.
So basically, this all goes back to the statement I made earlier in this or another thread on the topic.
San Antonio > Dallas > Phoenix.
San Antonio is tops, followed by Dallas team that may or may not be any better than a vastly improving Phoenix team.
Spurs greater than Mavericks greater than/equal to Suns.
But that's right, you're such an authority on basketball that your opinion is to be exhaulted above those of paid professionals (Hollinger) and a fan who literally watches and/or tapes every Suns game, not for enjoyment only, but to review and breakdown the flim to analyze strengths and weaknesses, and has done such for the past four years...
once again, i will wait till the playoffs for now, and just let your team do the talking, as they will, once again, fail, due to their reliance on jumpshots, poor defense, and poor rebounding. hopefully one day you will wisen up and realize that you must be capable of playing shutdown defense at times, and be a good rebounding team to win the le. and dont bring the Mavericks into what i said here, like you and your other suns es have been doing after every post. what im saying is strictly about BASKETBALL. im not saying anything about the Mavericks being a great defensive team or rebounding team. while im a Mavs fan, im primarily a basketball fan, and obviously know a of a lot more about basketball than you will ever know. it already shows in the fact that you think a team that plays minimal defense, and cant rebound is capable of winning a le.
grasp your ears firmly, and pull your head out of your ass.
Funny, but that is what everyone else is saying to all the Mavs fans who think that one Finals appearance makes for a dynasty and conference ownage in perpetuity.
Do it a few years in a row before you start demanding that everyone be your es.
I never said the mavs are clearly better than the suns. What I'm saying is the suns weaknesses will show up more in the playoffs and if Dallas doesn't finish them off San Antonio will. It is key for the suns to get the 1 seed. Otherwise it is almost impossible for them to win it all.
it is key for both the spurs and mavs to get the 1st seed
I've played, coached, and analyzed more basketball than your pussy ass ever will. If anyone is a top authority, I'll take it from here - you don't know anything about the Suns or how they play the game. I love how you use the Mavs as your examples of what "great" and "championship" teams do, but then you say "don't bring the Mavs into what I say here." You're just a whiny, homer who doesn't want to admit anything about the other team.
JET is a defensive liability, as well, but he's not as bad as Nash. Nash is not a good one-on-one defender, but he is good playing the passing lanes. It's obvious Spurs fans don't watch Suns games either, because they've put Marion on Parker for at least the past 5 games the teams have played, so Nash doesn't have to guard him.
Watch some basketball from 1982-1988 and see how much "defense" was played back then. When the Celtics are giving up 140 pts to the Lakers, but still winning, then maybe they played just as much defense as they had to in order to win. Their style of play is going to lead to a lot of points for both teams, but the real test will come in 7-game series to see which teams can make the better adjustments.
That was an awful lot of words to say nothing at all...
Question is: will the Suns be able to fly out of Denver before tomorrow night's game in Phoenix? What a bummer that would be missing 2 games in a row...
i have not seen a single person say anything about the Mavs being a dynasty and owning the conference. i know for a fact i never said such a thing. i never even asked anyone to be my . you really need to read my posts a little more thoroughly.
i never bragged about the Mavs being great or anything. i personally think they are among the best two teams in the league, along with the Spurs. do they have what it takes to win a championship? only time will tell. but they do play solid defense, rebound the ball very well, have great coaching, and have an explosive and balanced offense. you are just a whiny homer that is so ing stupid that he thinks you can win a championship without defense and rebounding like only a total faced moron would.
I agree JET is not a great defender. he plays passing lanes pretty well, better than Nash does, but hes a piss poor pick-and-roll defender.
back in the 80s, basketball was a lot different. the VAST MAJORITY of players knew how to shoot. we rarely saw any missed 5 foot jumpers. we rarely saw people miss wide open shots, period. compare the shooting to today, its night and day. people today cannot shoot for . this is one reason why i appreciate the Suns. they are a team that knows how to jumpshoot, which opens up their offense a LOT more. ultimately, being able to score inside and driving is what you have to do on offense to win, but being able to shoot the jumpshot makes it MUCH easier to drive and get interior scoring. also, look at the difference of shooting percentages. we have a lot more people that take stupid, unnecesary shots today, as opposed to then, therefore ing up their team's offensive productivity. back then, shooting 50% was what you would aim for, at least. now, shooting in the 40's is considered normal, the high 30's is not great, but at least somewhat acceptable, and 50% is considered phenominal. another thing that has changed is officiating. there are a lot more ticky tack fouls being called, and less solid, hardnosed defense being played. when you have a foul being called every minute of the game, its a little tough for offenses to get in a rhythm, and it slows the game down, leading to less shots.
dont compare today's game to the past. if you truly knew a ing thing about basketball as you said you did, you wouldnt say dumb like that, you ing .
The only difference between your face and a bag of crap is the bag.
How's that?
Weak... but that's typical.
Why do you need to swear all the time? If you are a grown adult there is no need for It. Every now and then ok but every post? to swear that much you have to have mental problems.
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