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Sparky, oh trust me after Hedo's playoff performance I did not want him back, and yes Jackson could hit the big shot in the playoffs.
can anyone tell me how to quote other posts in my replies?
Wrong 100% wrong and on this I know you are wrong.
They had no idea what type of contract Manu was going to get offered in FA and if they had signed Jack to the contract he asked for they would have only been able to match up to the MLE for Manu....If we'd signed Jack that first year there is no gurantee we would have been able to resign Manu.
It had nothing to do with Kobe...
This I am 100% certain of.
Then why'd they make a run at him last summer?
Sparky, oh trust me after Hedo's playoff performance I did not want him back, and yes Jackson could hit the big shot in the playoffs.
can anyone tell me how to quote other posts in my replies?
The difference was nothing once you factor in cost of living. In fact if the Spurs had offered what they were fully able to under the cap rules then Jackson would have come out ahead all things considered. So it wasn't about taking more money it was about ownership not being willing to commit to Jackson.You are right on this...I mis-stated it...but you still have to prove Jack was willing to sign here for less..and that he only wanted the amount he took from Indy....Indy was his last option to still get a decent contract and be able to play for a winning team...
That's because most of this should be obvious, especially to someone with such a knowledge of the league, its rules, and its players like yourself. Also when you have posted a link you managed to contradict yourself. The information you have posted has been full of inaccuracies as well.I'm not being obstinate...you are talking and you haven't backed up a single thing you have said with any kind of link...
Look in the mirror.100% out of your ass.
Here's a link. Read it and learn.Gimme a link and I might agree with you...I might get more pissed about then you are.
Assuming that he'd get a 6 year deal here.I think if Jack had wanted to be here...he'd be here.
Actually I can think of one argument you should be making which would expand the difference in the first year salaries a little more. But I'll leave it up to you, the league expert, to figure it out.
Yes it is, because you're making the assumption that Jack had the same feeling concering the tax arguments ...You are making those statements as if they are a reason Jack would be willing to accept less to play here...IE the same amount as Barry signed for...he didn't sign for the same amount Barry signed for...annually or any other way.
It's more than you've posted...You weren't even sure what the salary difference was between Jackson and Barry and you posted the links which contained that information.
Go to Patricia's site.
Jack signed for something more which was tantamount to a rounding error over the life of the contract than what the Spurs could have nominally offered. The salary cap room left over was a little more than 300k but I decided to be generous and use your numbers.
Jack signed late in FA....
It is an insurmountable amount if Jack wasn't willing to budge...under the salary cap. It's a hard cap in that situation.You make out the $600k difference that Jack signed for versus what the Spurs could have offered (using your numbers) as some insurmountable amount, yet Barry himself signed for $3 million less than what he was offered elsewhere.
You've yet to explain any of this.
He wasn't willing to budge the previous offseason, what makes you think he changed?
You assume this whole thing was over nothing more than length of contract...
But I ask how you know that...
What you advocate doing is waiting for Jack to field the best offers at his leisure while all the other decent players get signed...giving Jack the option to be a horses ass and sign elsewhere for more money if he chooses...
Guess what? Didn't you notice that we did that the previous season and got ed by Jack?
It was only some slick manuevering by the Spurs that enabled us to come out of that offseason with Hedo...
LOL I am weak when it comes to the cap...and I will be the first to admit it...
But that doesn't change the fact that you haven't proved . If you know it, prove it...
Prove that Jack was willing to sign with us for the same he is getting from Indy...
Prove that had we waited on Jack until we lost out on other guys, that Jack would have come here...
Prove the Spurs had the mount of cap space to sign him for what he is making now or what he was asking then...I honestly don't know that for sure...but that is what the board capologists said at the time.
If it's about money for Jack then how do you not factor in taxes? Barry is quite relevant because he took less as a % of a contract offer (nominally) than I am saying Jackson would have. Even before the cost of living issues and other factors we are looking at a $600k difference over the life of a $40 million contract. And that's not even $600k in today's dollars.Yes it is, because you're making the assumption that Jack had the same feeling concering the tax arguments and assuming Jack felt that way...You are making those statements as if they are a reason Jack would be willing to accept less to play here...IE the same amount as Barry signed for...he didn't sign for the same amount Barry signed for...annually or any other way.
Jack was never presented with a 6 year contract offer from the Spurs so you cannot say he would not have taken it. Again and again I have pointed out why the difference between what he signed for and what the Spurs could have offered under the cap rules is minor, at best. You have chosen to simply argue that Jackson signed for nominally more. That is simplistic and naive, to say the least.
Face it, your argument is weak as . I don't have nor really care to spend more time here chopping it into finer bits today.
So long, expert.
Last edited by SPARKY; 12-07-2004 at 11:02 AM.
Why do you keep using what Barry did as an example of what Jack was willing to do, would have done, or an example of negotiations that the Spurs could have pursued with him?
Barry isn't Jack...Barry doesn't get suspended for 30 games, and Barry doesn't himself into being forced to play for a lottery team for 1 million.
Did you see Barry arguing with us over the amound like Jack did?
Don't use Barry as an example....because you don't know that lack of state income tax was a factor in Barry's decision...you can't prove Barry wouldn't have made the same decision even if Texas did have a state income tax.
You are talking out of your ass and you have substantiated nothing while making sweeping asumptions.
And you don't know that he would have....And how do you know what was discussed? Link?Jack was never presented with a 6 year contract offer from the Spurs so you cannot say he would not have taken it.
Again you make the assumption that Jax was asking for the same amount from the Spurs that he eventually signed with the Pacers for...Again and again I have pointed out why the difference between what he signed for and what the Spurs could have offered under the cap rules is minor, at best. You have chosen to simply argue that Jackson signed for nominally more. That is simplistic and naive, to say the least.
You also make the assumption that Jack is a normal rational human being.
You keep using the fact that Brent Barry took 3 million less, and no state Inc Tax, as some type of justification for why Jax would have also been willing to do so...Jack is a horses ass, so is his agent...he didn't budge the previous season...
Ahh...it might not be the strongest argument I have ever had, and if a cap argument was I would be amazed......but it's weak because of the information I don't have...and yours is equally weak for the same reason.Face it, your argument is weak as . I don't have nor really care to spend more time here chopping it into finer bits today.
So long, expert.
Last edited by whottt; 12-07-2004 at 11:24 AM.
Hmm that discusion would make a sens if the Spurs were loosing
Based on his experiance and his role in his previous teams and also on his role in this team so far (not his game, but his contribution as a player) i think barry will step out and save some games if he will be needed, u guys are just to lucky to win them all with 10+. You are getting spoiled imo
"that discusion would make a sens if the Spurs were loosing"
Exactly. The Spurs got their "shooter" that so many said was missing when THE SPURS TEAM/COACHING totally ed up against the Lakers and quit playing that ball they that the had played through a March/April 17-game winining streak.
But the Spurs' "shooter" can't score, but THE SPURS TEAMS/COACHING is off to the best start in franchise history. Even if Brent were hitting his career avg's, what would be different today? We would have beaten TOR?, MEM?, SEA? I'm sure Brent alone would have made no difference in the 4th qtrs @SEA and @TOR, when the entire Spurs team D couldn't stop the other team getting hot.
If Brent starts hitting, fantastic. But the Spurs, "it's all about the TEAM", can win 60 games without his scoring and with the ball handling, playmaking, and break-running that Brent has been doing well.
Good take boutons but we don't know if we have our "shooter" yet, see Danny Ferry, Steve Smith and Hedo.....we'll find out in the playoffs and not before then.
It will take more than Devin...
I hope Barry shoots as well as Ferry did in the playoffs in 01.
He was one of the few that actually gave a that year.
LOL, the funny thing is...we just don't realize how bad the Lakers owned our shooters...
The truth is...none of these guys...not Porter, not Ferry, not Hedo,...none of them shot that bad until the opposing jersey was purple and gold. If we took out the LA series in those years we'd probably think those guys shot well in the playoffs.
Guess what? LOL, the purple and gold doesn't look quite like it used too....
It's ing beautiful man.
Jesus Christ Sparky. 100K over the damn cap is still 100K over the damn cap. It's not like we can write Stern a letter that saysFirst off going by the links you just provided the difference in first year salary is $400k. Assuming you are correct about the $300k left over in cap room now we are talking about a $100k annual difference in salary, or a $600k difference in a contract in the $40 mil range.
Look, what it boils down to is that the amount of money that Jax and his asshole agent were asking for was greater than the difference we had between our committed salaries and the NBA salary cap.Dear David,
We just need another 100K, it's not a big deal. Who cares if there's a salary cap? It's only 100K.
Signed,
Friends of Jack
I don't know what's so hard to grasp about that. State income tax, glory, good memories with the franchise...
None of it matters one bit when a player is asking for more money than you have left under the cap.
There is only one person to blame for Stephen Jackson not being a Spur - Stephen Jackson. He let his asshole agent hijack talks with the Spurs, and didn't step in when his agent was blocking Pop from talking to Jax.
If Jax would have told his agent to take what the Spurs could offer, he would have been here. His agent felt he could hold out for more elsewhere, and it looks like it paid off.
But throwing the Spurs franchise under the bus on this one is misguided and speaks of an agenda that you have Sparky, and frankly your agenda just doesn't jive with the language of the collective bargaining agreement or the agent of one Stephen Jackson.
Let's end this discussion now, because it's a good two pages of nonsense.
poor aggie dont know what he talking about
violentkitten
This message is hidden because violentkitten is on your ignore list.
just like an aggie to talk a lot of and run
What's that?
own3d.violentkitten
This message is hidden because violentkitten is on your ignore list.
you ran away like a little yes you are property of violentkitten.
This ignore list thing is getting kinda stupid and most of all boring
If there wasn't idiots like violentkitten running around who contribute nothing to the forum, the ignore button wouldn't need use.
Assuming that Barry is washed up after 20 games and has no stats--just exactly who do you think is going to trade for his contract with 4 years remaining?
Even the LA Clippers aren't that dumb...er...wait a minute, do they have anyone we'd like?
click the quote button on the lower right of desired post, edit as needed.
agree with your post kskonn. also hope the bold holds true.
Barry is still getting acclimated to his new team, timvp.
Do not get him confused with Hedo Turkoglu.
Barry will be there when it matters, because he actually gives a d@mn and signed with the Spurs on his own volition.
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