I disagree.Michael Jordan did practically nothing to make them better players.
IMO...he made them all better, and in turn, they made him and their team better.
Of course I don't know for sure either, I just need clarification that you are indeed saying Pippen would not have won those 6 les without Jordan, given your past history of painting the world with black and white paint.
So why would you say that Pippen was not one of the 50 greatest of all time? He was most definitely one of the best perimeter defenders, one of the best facilitator on offense, can drive and shoot with the best of them, led his team to decent success in 94 and 95.
And I haven't read any comments from the players that said Jordan was a great teammate.
lol, 6 rings.
I have a history now? Cool!Of course I don't know for sure either, I just need clarification that you are indeed saying Pippen would not have won those 6 les without Jordan, given your past history of painting the world with black and white paint.
Not sure why the personal shot, but to each his own.
Like I said, I don't know for sure and never claimed to...I am of the opinion that Scottie Pippen would have not won 6 les in 8 years with the Bulls without Michael Jordan.
I am not sure how many times I have to write this, but winning a ring doesn't make them better players. Samaki Walker won rings with Shaq, didn't make him a better player, Kobe won rings with Shaq and didn't even get past the 1st round without him, but Kobe is arguably a better player now.
They alluded to him being a jerk.
Well you have to have talent to start with.Samaki Walker won rings with Shaq, didn't make him a better player,
Sorry....random Samaki Walker shot...carry on!
He made the team better, didn't have any evidence showing that he made the teammates better.
lol, Horry - 7 rings.
Horry made his teammate better.
what the is the difference? he made the team better, and isn't that the whole point? i'm sorry that you expect him to be out giving jump shot pointers to stacey king while giving him a soothing backrub and making him a sandwich, but he didn't do it. the TEAM WAS BETTER, which meant that the INDIVIDUALS ON THE TEAM must have gotten better also. it's a tough concept but that's how it works. and unless you're going to assert that Jordan was not the leader of those teams, then he had a direct influence on the team (and the individuals who make up the team) getting better.
You are right, I don't have any written or video proof, just an opinion I formed by watching games. Its not right or wrong, just an opinion.He made the team better, didn't have any evidence showing that he made the teammates better
Same here, Pippen wouldn't have. But I would argue that Jordan would have a very hard time winning 6 les without Pippen as well. Pippen, Jordan and Jackson were integral parts of those Bulls teams, and their unique talents make them indispensible. This, to me, means that Pippen worked for all he's got, and that his contribution would exclude him from the coattails category. To me, a person riding a coattails would be people not contributing anything and basking the glory of success afterwards, such as what Udrih did the last couple of championships, or what Jack Haley did with the Bulls.
I would agree to a point. Integral parts yes, but to me, Pippen didn't have to do as much with Jordan there so he looked better than he was. Again, I am not saying Pippen wasn't good, I just don't think he is Hall of Fame good.Same here, Pippen wouldn't have. But I would argue that Jordan would have a very hard time winning 6 les without Pippen as well. Pippen, Jordan and Jackson were integral parts of those Bulls teams, and their unique talents make them indispensible. This, to me, means that Pippen worked for all he's got, and that his contribution would exclude him from the coattails category. To me, a person riding a coattails would be people not contributing anything and basking the glory of success afterwards, such as what Udrih did the last couple of championships, or what Jack Haley did with the Bulls.
lol, 6 rings as the unquestioned leader and #1 option of his team
lol, 14 time all-star
lol, 2 time olympic gold medalist
lol, 5 time MVP
lol, rookie of the year award
lol, defensive player of the year award
lol, 10 times ALL-NBA first team, 1 time ALL-NBA second team
lol, 9 time all defensive first team
lol, part of the 50 greatest players in history list
lol, 10 scoring les (record)
lol, 6 Finals MVPs (record)
lol, highest career scoring average (record)
lol, highest career playoff scoring average (record)
lol, most consecutive games scoring double figures (record)
and that is only a few of his accomplishments... at least the most major ones. here are a few more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Michael_Jordan
point me to where they alluded to him not making them better players.
Of course there is a difference. Even though the team game has nothing to do with mathematics, I will use the following analogy:
X1 + X2 + X3 < Y1 + Y2 + Y3
It is entirely possible that X2 and X3 are less than Y2 and Y3 respectively, because Y1 >> X1.
Just because Jordan (Y1) made his group a better team does not mean that he made the other components better (Y2 and Y3)
IMO, Horry got those rings because he had Hall of Famers who made him better.lol, Horry - 7 rings.
Horry made his teammate better
Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, TD
This list certainly shows evidence of how Jordan made his teammates better. Great job! At least I can say that you are consistent in that none of your arguments had any bearing to how Jordan made his teammates better.
Yeah, of course, just to point out how irrational it is to point out the 6 rings as some evidence of saying Jordan made his teammates better, and it actually further supports by claim that the ends justifies the means.
Maybe in Stretch's opinion..it does.This list certainly shows evidence of how Jordan made his teammates better. Great job! At least I can say that you are consistent in that none of your arguments had any bearing to how Jordan made his teammates better
He has that right, as you do to disagree.
No, it only shows that he is the greatest player of all time, won 6 rings, and accomplished more than any other player in NBA history. I don't think it was vital for him to prove that he was a great teammate.
Again, History only records the ends.Yeah, of course, just to point out how irrational it is to point out the 6 rings as some evidence of saying Jordan made his teammates better, and it actually further supports by claim that the ends justifies the means.
Bill Russell said "Hi".
Of course it wasn't vital for him to prove that he was a great teammate, I doubt that he would concern himself that some fatass like me would argue that he wasn't a great teammate because he didn't have too much to do during lunch break.
But then we rarely argue about vital things here .....
hmmm so let's say the Pistons are X1, X2, & X3. and they dominated the Bulls (Y) up through the 89-90 season.
X1 + X2 + X3 > Y1 + Y2 + Y3 in this case, up until the 89-90 season.
then in the 90-91 season, despite both teams having virtually the exact same components as the year before, this happens -
X1 + X2 + X3 < Y1 + Y2 + Y3
two exact same teams, yet in one year the results flip completely. HOW?
if all the components are exactly the same, how?
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