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Uh. okay spurs fans, you win.... Manu > Carter.. lol...
Carter's skill sets on offense duplicate a lot of things Parker and Manu already are providing. That's the mistake the Knicks make all the time -- they stock up on superfluous players. I'd like his rebounding, but his lack of defense is killer, and he's only 6'6". The Spurs get lit up by tall, athletic small forwards as it is -- Carter only makes that problem worse. He can't play small forward for the Spurs, and you can't give up Bowen for him. This team is not going to start playing like the Suns. If that is what you wish would happen, go root for the Suns.
He's going to take the shots Parker and Manu take now. In NJ, he's shooting 44.5% -- with Jason Kidd making it easy for him. Manu shoots 48.2%. Tony shoots 49.0%. Both of them will penetrate and draw contact. Carter avoids contact.
It's a Mark Cuban move -- add a player who doesn't address your needs just for the sake of getting another star. If the Spurs are going to make a trade, they need somebody who can guard Rashard Lewis, Grant Hill, and Shawn Marion before they need a guy who provides scoring which they already get from current players.
Just because you want to pull out all your teeth for Vince Carter because he puts up pretty stats doesn't mean everyone else is a homer. Recent franchise history tells me the last thing the team needs is a soft player who doesn't like clutch situations or physical playoff-style play, and prefers to fade into the background -- even if he is putting up 23 a night.
Uh. okay spurs fans, you win.... Manu > Carter.. lol...
Yes OWNED!
There are five pages of reasons why VC is a bad fit for the Spurs. You chose to think they are weak opinions. To me they are pretty convincing. I'll mention a few: (i) the guy is not clutch, (ii) he avoids contact (pussy), (iii) he is injury prone, (iv) he is a locker room cancer, (v) his percentages are low compared to Manu and TP, (vi) he needs lots of looks to score 20 pts, etc, etc, etc . . .
So what? Was you point ever proven right? No, and we will never no because your idiotic trade ideas have never materialized (thank God!).
So what? They have two championships and they are on the way to a third one. The entire league places them as their first candidate to win it all.
Your first trade scenario is as stupid as your second one. The reason being you want to bring VC to a team that is 35-10 for some of its key role players.
Last edited by smeagol; 01-28-2005 at 08:36 PM.
This isn't your main point, this whole thread, all five pages, was about how you're right and we're all wrong about Manu > Carter.The main point here is the spurs have done nothing for years in trades even when top players can be had for little more than matching contracts.
The reason it's not being talked about is that now that Scott Layden is out of the league there isn't a GM smoking enough crack to even consider a trade like that with the Spurs.Again, How many would not trade Bowen, Rose and Berry for Carter?
In short, we don't discuss because it's fvcking stupid, like you wanting a guy who is a zero come playoff time at the expense of a guy who has already punked USA's Dream Team twice, won a World Championship, Gold Medal, and NBA championship (and more to come) all in his first three years in the league.
Vince Carter is to the playoffs as Ron Artest is to the rest of the NBA season (i.e. nowhere to be found).
Aggie: You are wrong. That is my main point. I have brought that up many times in this forum.
On to Smeagol: You offer opinions and not fact.
Lets break it down
Your opinion with no solid facts to support this claim.The guy is not clutch.
Carter has better playoff numbers than Manu.
Carter has in the playoffs 25.7 ppg thats up from his career regular season avg of 24 PPG. So no dropoff there. Shooting %'s in the playoffs Fg% .415 FT% .810 compared with career regular season FG% .446 and FT% .781. A dropoff in fG% but a rise in FT%. But compared with Manu's playoff numbers they are better. Manu playoff fg% .406 FT%.780 and regular season career FG% .441 FT% .788. A larger dropoff for manu.
Carter overall playoff numbers are up in assits, rebounds and steals as compared to the regular season.
Carter: playoff avg's
5 assits, 1.5 steals and 6.4 rebounds
Regular season
3.9 assits, 1.3 steals and 5.2 rebounds
It makes sense that these numbers are higher because his minutes go up in the playoffs from 37.6 in the regular season to 44 minutes a game. That also can account for lower fg% totals with the high minutes per game totals.
Your claim that he is not clutch is not supported by the numbers. And if you want to believe it then you have to also believe that Manu is not clutch because his shooting %'s are even worse than Carter's in the playoffs.
Point number two
Where do you get that from. Carter is a player who takes it to the basket hard and finishes with dunks creating his own shots off the dribble.He avoids contact (pussy)
I agree with you here. He has had a history of getting injured but its what makes him high risk/ high reward.He is injury prone.
Carter is not a cancer. Thats just your opinion. He was a team leader on Toronto for years and their best player. The go to player until this year when he wanted out because the franchise wasn't trying to improve. No doubt he wouldn't be any problem with the spurs and thats a weak excuss for not wanting him on the spurs.He is a locker room cancer.
The numbers don't support this.His numbers are low compared to manu and TP
Carter's career fg% is .446 as compared with manu's career fg% of .441
Carter's career ft% is .781 as compared with manu's career fT% of .788
and to those who claim Manu is a better 3 point shooter
Carter's career 3pt fg% is .383 and Manu's is .364
The numbers don't support your inaccurate opinion.
He gets lots of looks because he was the best player on Toronto and a proven star in the league. And thats why he plays more minutes and is a more valuable overall player than Manu.He needs lots of looks to score 20 pts etc. etc. etc...
So to sum it all up your reasons for not wanting Carter are just your perceptions which are not only inaccurate but not supported by stats.
Last edited by rascal; 01-29-2005 at 12:46 AM.
and that is just yours. What makes yours better than Whottts? The Spurs are 35-10...why change that?Carter is not a cancer.
Rascal, you just don't get it.
At least half of Spurs fans on this forum would have no trouble moving some players for a legit star. But people want that only if it looks like the star is going to be a good fit. If you started a thread about moving Rasho and Malik Rose for a quality big man, you would get lots of positive responses.
Carter brings certain things to the table, but he doesn't fill a need. He's one of the more talented players in the league. I think few would argue with that. But he needs to have the ball to be effective. He wouldn't get the touches he needs to score 25 ppg in San Antonio. He's a rhythm player. He needs to shoot the ball and get in a groove. As long as Tim Duncan is the focal point of the offense, that's not going to happen.
He's not the best defender. Pop is a defensive coach. If he's going to play on the Spurs, he would need to defend.
He's admitted to taking plays off. He's said that he doesn't always try his best. Whether or not he's a cancer can be debated, but it's certain that he wouldn't endear himself to any of the coaches or players in San Antonio if he did the same thing there.
Look at Dallas. Look at Portland from a few years back. Those teams plugged in stars but didn't have any balance. They didn't have any chemistry. They didn't have the players willing to do all the little things. There is a reason why your model of team building almost always fails. If you're into stats and figures and stuff to prove your point, please humor me. It works only a small percentage of the time.
I can't emphasize enough that you're missing the point. Many Spurs fans would trade the players you mentioned in a heartbeat for the right player. I'm all for adding a star, but it's got to be the right star. Someone who gives effort. Someone who plays defense. And a player who doesn't need 20 shots a night to be effective.
Brodels: That player you want will cost you more than Rose and Rasho and even Manu. Now was the time to get a player like Carter for less than equal value.
Carter was traded away for nothing. Toronto just wanted to move him out.
your the one not getting it. Carter's value was low and was a steal at the time he was traded. The spurs should have made some type of offer to get him. Carter has enough athleticism to be a good defender in Pops defensive scheme. What? does he have slow lateral movements or can't jump ? Of course not. If he was on a team that stressed defense he would be more than adequate as a defender.
Carter doesn't need a ton of shots to be good. He would be the 2nd scoring option on the spurs so he would get enough touches.
He has been great on the Nets and all he needed was a change of teams and some motivation and inspiration that he was on a team that cared about winning. I don't see how being on the spurs would make Carter any less effective than what he is doing on the Nets.
Carter > Manu
carter has always played in the leastern conference. no way is carter even 1/4 as tough as Manu. carter is always getting hurt, while Manu plays hurt and has way more heart than carter ever will. you can continue to live in your dream world though. what has carter ever won?
Carter isn't a max player.
Manu is a bargain.
Hey dumb asses. Carter has just ave. 30+ over a 5 game road trip to the West Coast while leading his team to a 3 and 2 record which is pretty good for a wuss huh?
All of you need to shut the up because you obviously don't know about basketball.
Carter is a max player and Manu is wannabee maxplayer.
FO.
Oh and ding dongs... The Nets are only 2.5 games back now from their division leaders after winning 4 in a row.
Wow.
Nah........ we couldn't use Carter............................
Duncan and Carter would've been a dynasty.
Last edited by SequSpur; 02-01-2005 at 11:46 PM.
yea and the 3 wins were against GS, lakers and Utah with all 5 games against teams that dont play defense (with the exception being Utah). He point total was 32, 23, 17, 30, and 30 for an average of 26.4. Last time I checked 26.4 > 30+, yea you really know about basketball.
as for Tim and carter being a dynasty, that's only IF (and a big if) carter stays healthy. Even then I dont think its a lock. You go on keep dreaming and acting like a jackass, I know it makes you feel better.
3 and 2?
2.5 games out of still being below .500?
You'll have to do better than that.
The Nets would have the 12th spot in the west NAILED DOWN right now, es!
Recognize!
Sequ,
Why is this so hard to understand?
1. It's before the All-Star break
2. It's definitely way before the post-season.
Let's see Half Man Half a Season show up in the playoffs, let's see him playing ball in May or April, then you may have a point.
Vince Carter is now a candidate for MVP.
Nough said ding dongs.
Add 31 for tonight and another win. 5 in a row. Now 1.5 back.
STFU Chumpdumper, you don't know about basketball anyway.
So he can take a lot of shots to score a lot of points. Just what is needed in the Spurs system, someone who will crank up 25 jumpers a game (and miss 15 of them).
Lemme guess, the next argument will be that he's taller than Ginobili.
, you don't know basic math.
Which is worse?
Leave it to you bookworms to pull out a ing calculator took make a point about an annual allstar and try to make a point.
STFU.
5 in a row?
Jan 25 loss to Sac
Jan 26 win @ GS
Jan 28 win @ LAL
Jan 29 win @ Utah
Feb 1 win @ Chic
That looks like 4 to me...but what do I know
Keep dreaming though maybe someday it will come true. The rest of us will just enjoy living in the real world.
Leave it to Sequ to repeatedly kick his own ass in a thread.
Too easy.
Carter: Player of the Week
Vince Carter led his team to a 3-1 week, averaging 25.0 points on .494 shooting, 7.8 assists and 3.3 rebounds, to earn NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Week honors. He led the Nets to their first winning Western Conference trip since the 1997-98 season, beating Golden State, Los Angeles Lakers and Utah. Carter also claimed the le of NetsDaily Player of the Week.
Whip cream on top dumb asses.
Bruce got player of the week too.
And I hear he can count and divide....
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