Woj: Kawhi Wants Max Contract Extension; No Progress Made in Talks With Spurs

[Baam]

The biggest problem is Pop saying one thing (hes the face of the franchise) and doing another (not even putting him in the PnR with TP)...

[littlecoyotecoin]

I think alike this. Awesome take

Agreed. I have trust in Chinook's take on the cap space. Kawhi isn't good enough to carry the load by himself, so if his extension sabotages our bottom line and we can't bring in decent talent to help him, he becomes a very good player on a mediocre team for several years. If that's the case, and he won't accept our match offer next summer, let him walk, and just be bad for a few years and try to rebuild and save some cash.

Demarcus Ware was a very good player. Even with Demarcus Ware, the Cowboys were mediocre for years and years. How much of a loss would it have been if he walked 5 years ago vs recently? No loss at all.

Hopefully it works out, and he trusts The Spurs to take care of him next year. Hopefully the way they've handled the big three can instill some faith in him that they'll take care of him. It would actually be sad to watch him on a crap team he helped create by removing some of their flexibility for the next 2-3 years.

And, to those saying we are acting like it's "our wallet" and the like: It is not that we care about the money, it is whether or not giving him the extension significantly impairs us bringing in another player when/if Manu and/or Tim retires nex year, re-signing Danny, etc. Who cares about Holt's pocket? No one. It's about being able to try to rebuild on the fly and having the cap space to do it when you lose two key pieces, maybe, next summer.

[ElNono]

Agreed. I have trust in Chinook's take on the cap space. Kawhi isn't good enough to carry the load by himself, so if his extension sabotages our bottom line and we can't bring in decent talent to help him, he becomes a very good player on a mediocre team for several years. If that's the case, and he won't accept our match offer next summer, let him walk, and just be bad for a few years and try to rebuild and save some cash.

If the Spurs match an offer he receives next summer, he can't refuse. If the Spurs turn out to be terrible, he can always try to force a trade later on, which would help the Spurs in acquiring picks or rebuilding talent. That's why I think the Spurs will eventually do hand him the max.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If the Spurs match an offer he receives next summer, he can't refuse. If the Spurs turn out to be terrible, he can always try to force a trade later on, which would help the Spurs in acquiring picks or rebuilding talent. That's why I think the Spurs will eventually do hand him the max.

Max contract next year or max extension?

[Mel_13]

Max contract next year or max extension?

Anything next summer is a new contract. The window for an extension closes on Friday.

[wildchild]

If he pulls a Parsons to spite the Spurs, I will be pretty annoyed with him.

Sorry but I don't understand what's the problem with Parsons decision.
We know what was the Rockets proposal before/after Mavs offer? He refused a trade previous years in order to stay in Houston and then he signed with other team? His contract didn't have a no-trade clause but I mean informal talks about some trade?
I didn't read it but maybe the negotiations between the Rox and Parsons became public after he leaves Houston.

I don't like the way that Parsons deal sets a precedent inflating salaries for next wings contracts, but if he was paid like a superstar in Dallas, if a crazy guy like Cuban offered him that, why he should reject it?.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Anything next summer is a new contract. The window for an extension closes on Friday.

I meant eventually offer him the max on his extension (this week) or eventually offer him a max contract (this coming summer), I was just not sure what Nono was suggesting.

Seems clear that he means next summer, but has also seemed pro-extension. Just trying to clarify.

[Mel_13]

I meant eventually offer him the max on his extension (this week) or eventually offer him a max contract (this coming summer), I was just not sure what Nono was suggesting.

Seems clear that he means next summer, but has also seemed pro-extension. Just trying to clarify.

He was responding to you suggesting that Kawhi might not accept a matching offer from the Spurs next summer. Nono correctly pointed out that he won't have that choice.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He was responding to you suggesting that Kawhi might not accept a matching offer from the Spurs next summer. Nono correctly pointed out that he won't have that choice.

Yes. Appreciate that correction.

[ElNono]

I meant eventually offer him the max on his extension (this week) or eventually offer him a max contract (this coming summer), I was just not sure what Nono was suggesting.

Seems clear that he means next summer, but has also seemed pro-extension. Just trying to clarify.

I mean if they don't get to an agreement until next summer, when he's a RFA. At that point, the Spurs can match any offer other teams make, and Kawhi doesn't have any say on that.

[hater]

Well Spurs gave 15 million to the Heats Finals MVP so imo Kawhi is more dan deservingly imhoo

[DPG21920]

Even if the Spurs were willing to do a 4 year max extension, they would be better served to wait. Not only financially (other teams signing him to a 4 year max and Spurs matching is cheaper than the Spurs signing him to a 4 year max extension) but cap-wise since they can keep Kawhi's cap hold which will undoubtedly be lower than his contract on the books, sign other players then use their Bird Rights to exceed the cap to sign Kawhi.

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

3) Kawhi in order to get security, is willing to take a 4 year extension at less than max (even then, Spurs would have to believe that savings in doing an extension now outweigh the benefits of waiting and having cap flexibilty next year).

[littlecoyotecoin]

I mean if they don't get to an agreement until next summer, when he's a RFA. At that point, the Spurs can match any offer other teams make, and Kawhi doesn't have any say on that.

I hope we can all live with that.

[Chinook]

Sorry but I don't understand what's the problem with Parsons decision.
We know what was the Rockets proposal before/after Mavs offer? He refused a trade previous years in order to stay in Houston and then he signed with other team? His contract didn't have a no-trade clause but I mean informal talks about some trade?
I didn't read it but maybe the negotiations between the Rox and Parsons became public after he leaves Houston.

I don't like the way that Parsons deal sets a precedent inflating salaries for next wings contracts, but if he was paid like a superstar in Dallas, if a crazy guy like Cuban offered him that, why he should reject it?.

From what I gather, the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them. Parsons, feeling slighted that Houston didn't consider him a third star, promptly signed a max offer sheet with Dallas. That essentially forced Houston to pick between the chance at Bosh or keeping Parsons, when they would have been able to keep both. Of course, they ended up with neither.

The fear is that Leonard would do something similar to what Parsons did if he doesn't get a max extension. From a standpoint of securing the most cash he can, it makes sense for Kawhi to sign with the Spurs next summer for a five-year max deal. That would help both sides. But if he feels disrespected by the Spurs prioritizing future cap space over allaying Leonard's concern over a new deal, Kawhi may go for a short-term deal with a new team. The Spurs could and would match (provided the other team didn't have a of a S&T package to offer), but it would both put a constraint on how long they had cap space next summer and make 2017 a year where they have to appease Leonard in order to convince him to stay. The Spurs could end up in a situation where Kawhi walks in 2017 because the team isn't compe ive, where the main reason why the team wasn't compe ive is because Leonard took his money a few months too early.

The obstacle/thing to watch here is not the money; the Spurs will give Kawhi his. It's all about how Leonard handles these negotiations. In my opinion, he simply isn't good enough for the Spurs to kowtow for. If he plays this like we expect Spurs to do (have a team-first approach even though he's going to still get a max deal), then things will be fine for everyone. However, if he ends up being a diva about this like Parsons did, it's possible that it won't really matter if he walks or not.

[DPG21920]

People keep forgetting the Spurs are different than everyone else and no one is above the team (outside of Duncan/Robinson). Spurs have shown they take care of their own long-term and have the best front office when it comes to winning.

If players don't buy into that, especially non-Duncan type players, then perhaps they don't belong.

[DPG21920]

Basically, what I mean by that, is if Kawhi would have sour grapes for the Spurs paying him a lot of money and asking him to earn more, then he's probably a dummy and doesn't understand the Spurs model of success.

[Chinook]

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

Even that doesn't make sense. They can give Kawhi a new five-year deal next summer if they want to. The only reason an extension makes sense is if he's Davis caliber, where even the Rose-max is less than he's worth.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

QOs are weird. The Spurs would probably offer an mQO, which would prevent such a scenario, I believe. It'd also prevent a Parsons scenario, although only in the sense that the contract would have to be a year longer.

I agree with 3). There's very little reason to extend any player for the max. Leonard has to realize that if he wants the Spurs to give up financial flexibility, he has to give up something to make it worthwhile.

[Mel_13]

From what I gather, the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them. Parsons, feeling slighted that Houston didn't consider him a third star, promptly signed a max offer sheet with Dallas. That essentially forced Houston to pick between the chance at Bosh or keeping Parsons, when they would have been able to keep both. Of course, they ended up with neither.

The fear is that Leonard would do something similar to what Parsons did if he doesn't get a max extension. From a standpoint of securing the most cash he can, it makes sense for Kawhi to sign with the Spurs next summer for a five-year max deal. That would help both sides. But if he feels disrespected by the Spurs prioritizing future cap space over allaying Leonard's concern over a new deal, Kawhi may go for a short-term deal with a new team. The Spurs could and would match (provided the other team didn't have a of a S&T package to offer), but it would both put a constraint on how long they had cap space next summer and make 2017 a year where they have to appease Leonard in order to convince him to stay. The Spurs could end up in a situation where Kawhi walks in 2017 because the team isn't compe ive, where the main reason why the team wasn't compe ive is because Leonard took his money a few months too early.

The obstacle/thing to watch here is not the money; the Spurs will give Kawhi his. It's all about how Leonard handles these negotiations. In my opinion, he simply isn't good enough for the Spurs to kowtow for. If he plays this like we expect Spurs to do (have a team-first approach even though he's going to still get a max deal), then things will be fine for everyone. However, if he ends up being a diva about this like Parsons did, it's possible that it won't really matter if he walks or not.

Or, having assumed the risk of waiting a year so that the team had a more favorable cap situation in 2015, Leonard goes for a shorter term deal next summer simply to maximize his potential earnings. Choosing that path does not have to result from feeling disrespected or acting like a diva.

[BillMc]

Even if the Spurs were willing to do a 4 year max extension, they would be better served to wait. Not only financially (other teams signing him to a 4 year max and Spurs matching is cheaper than the Spurs signing him to a 4 year max extension) but cap-wise since they can keep Kawhi's cap hold which will undoubtedly be lower than his contract on the books, sign other players then use their Bird Rights to exceed the cap to sign Kawhi.

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

3) Kawhi in order to get security, is willing to take a 4 year extension at less than max (even then, Spurs would have to believe that savings in doing an extension now outweigh the benefits of waiting and having cap flexibilty next year).

The obstacle/thing to watch here is not the money; the Spurs will give Kawhi his. It's all about how Leonard handles these negotiations. In my opinion, he simply isn't good enough for the Spurs to kowtow for. If he plays this like we expect Spurs to do (have a team-first approach even though he's going to still get a max deal), then things will be fine for everyone. However, if he ends up being a diva about this like Parsons did, it's possible that it won't really matter if he walks or not.

So, let's wait. It's better for getting Timmy, maybe Manu and Green back too. Leonard's going to have to trust in the Spurs and handle it like a pro and then he'll get his.

[Galileo]

Leonard is the only players in NBA history with a 70% win percentage in playoffs. And he is the only player with a 75% win percentage in regular season. He is the best player in the NBA and just dominated LeBron James. Give him a max deal. The cap is going way up anyway, and many lesser players are getting hug contracts.

[Chinook]

Because some team will be willing to give him a three year deal with a player option for year three. That gets him two years at the max and makes him an unrestricted FA in the summer of 2017. No reason to take the QO just to get to free agency one year earlier. The Parsons scenario is the risk that the Spurs assume by not reaching an extension agreement this summer.

I've been saying this as well, but I realize that this fear is unfounded. The Spurs can step up with a Maximum Qualifying Offer, which would prevent teams from signing Leonard to a 2+1 kind of deal. Would stop them from offering a 3 or 3+1, however.

[ElNono]

People keep forgetting the Spurs are different than everyone else and no one is above the team (outside of Duncan/Robinson). Spurs have shown they take care of their own long-term and have the best front office when it comes to winning.

If players don't buy into that, especially non-Duncan type players, then perhaps they don't belong.

Most players actually don't really buy into that, IMO... those that do are the exception, not the rule...

[Chinook]

Or, having assumed the risk of waiting a year so that the team had a more favorable cap situation in 2015, Leonard goes for a shorter term deal next summer simply to maximize his potential earnings. Choosing that path does not have to result from feeling disrespected or acting like a diva.

Well, as I've mention in a post just now, Leonard probably won't be able to choose a two-year deal anyway if the Spurs don't want him to.

As far as reasons to extend, it's also possible that Kawhi will accept a Durant-style five-year deal with no options, whereas next summer, he'll want a PO. That may be worth the Spurs getting a deal now.

[BillMc]

From what I gather, the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them. Parsons, feeling slighted that Houston didn't consider him a third star, promptly signed a max offer sheet with Dallas.

Wasn't that also what happened with Boozer all those years ago in Cleveland? It seems like every time a team lets a player out of his contract with "an understanding" they bolt.

[DPG21920]

Even that doesn't make sense. They can give Kawhi a new five-year deal next summer if they want to. The only reason an extension makes sense is if he's Davis caliber, where even the Rose-max is less than he's worth.

QOs are weird. The Spurs would probably offer an mQO, which would prevent such a scenario, I believe. It'd also prevent a Parsons scenario, although only in the sense that the contract would have to be a year longer.

I agree with 3). There's very little reason to extend any player for the max. Leonard has to realize that if he wants the Spurs to give up financial flexibility, he has to give up something to make it worthwhile.

I agree with what you said, I was just assuming that the Spurs value Kawhi like you just described (which they shouldn't/won't) and that if they do value him like that have a legit fear he would throw a tantrum and leave (which in that case, they should S&T him).