Kawhi-Lights

[apalisoc_9]

Who the would make a video just for that?

Anyway, yeah, there are a TON of poor shots in that video. Baseline fadeaways off cross court dribbles with 15 seconds left on the shot clock? Disgusting. Face-up jumpers with multiple teammates open beyond the arc? Yeah, not good. And these are his highlights. His shot-selection does suck.

What he did that I really liked in that vid is that he attacked mismatches. He used his speed against big guys and overpowered smalls. His highlights were almost exclusively in these situations, which is what you want. It also implies that he has less success against defenders his own size, which is to be expected. It's that diet of shots that he needs to cut back on, though, as well as early clock two-pointers.

It's really cool that Kawhi has the talent to make these plays work as much as they do. But that doesn't make those plays good for the offense at all.



Just because he doesn't have a better shot doesn't mean the TEAM doesn't have a better one. That's why Kawhi can't just jack up midrange shots all day. They're bad for a team, and if they're the best he can do, he needs to shoot less until that changes. Obviously things are different when he goes into big-head mode. But that's true of ever player.

You're completely missing the point. His face up are complete isolation plays with hardly anyone open unless if your'e going for a cross pass...

Where the are you getting your stats? Kawhi isn't just jacking up mid-range shots. You're completely trying to exaggerate every facet of his game to a negative and competently ignoring the fact that this team is looking for a perfect balance of Star production and Team shots...Holy I xan make a video of any superstar in this league and assume they take the worst shots.

No he doesn't need to shoot less. You don't grow up by putting limitations. You're in complete denial with how this team is progressing......

[apalisoc_9]

My point was similar to Chinook's, in that if you want to force-feed Kawhi and run the offense through him, you're mainly going to get unassisted mid-range jumpers. He needs to be heavily involved, but not as the focal point where everything starts.

Except there isn't an offensive force in the perimeter who is as good as Kawhi.

You're trying to argue for 2014 spurs ball in 2016..That's not going to work. This team doesn't have a fast PG or a penetrating SG that allows for that system to work anymore.

[tholdren]

Except there isn't an offensive force in the perimeter who is as good as Kawhi.

You're trying to argue for 2014 spurs ball in 2016..That's not going to work. This team doesn't have a fast PG or a penetrating SG that allows for that system to work anymore.

Sure spurs do, Mills proved that last playoffs

[YGWHI]

Smalls playing in the post on a non-mismatch is bad offense....His game is antiquated.

Well, Pop said this week, he wants Kawhi posting more and more...he envisions him as a post-up player.

"We’re going to put (Leonard) in the post more and more, so he’s got to learn what his go-to moves are, what he feels comfortable with and the type of (defenders) that are going to come after him (while in the post). Just like they came after Timmy early in his career, they’ll go after Kawhi"

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-nothing-more/

[apalisoc_9]

Sure spurs do, Mills proved that last playoffs

Mills won't be playing 35 minutes..not with Tony on the team.

[Chinook]

You're completely missing the point. His face up are complete isolation plays with hardly anyone open unless if your'e going for a cross pass...

Yeah, and those aren't particularly good plays to call. It's one thing to iso on a mismatch. But why should the Spurs stop running their offense for Leonard to iso on decent defenders?

Where the are you getting your stats? Kawhi isn't just jacking up mid-range shots.

I'm saying that even in that video he's taking bad shots.

[QUOTE]You're completely trying to exaggerate every facet of his game to a negative/QUOTE]

I'm not. You guys are the ones saying he should take iso midranges because they're his best shots. I'm saying those shots should be minimized in an offense. There are plenty of ways to get a player good shots, even midrange shots, that don't involve isolation plays. Even when the offense was completely Parker-centric the team had a lot of different ways of getting him the ball in motion and ready to shoot.

ignoring the fact that this team is looking for a perfect balance of Star production and Team shots.

Yes, the point of this balance is to find a way to get the offense to work to the "star". The offense is supposed to help him get open, and he's supposed to help others get going. Iso plays don't do that. It's good for a player to know how to score one-on-one, but by no means should an offense just stop for Kawhi, especially when he shares a lineup with four guys who all have higher career-scoring games than him. They all need the ball. Kawhi might be a 20 ppg scorer, but LMA will be at least that high. Danny will be 13-15 (or at least should because of his efficiency). Parker isn't dropping down to single-figures, and I expect Tim to still get double-digits as well. The Sours are not going to be the Kawhi show on offense for a whole season. Too much talent for that.

You don't grow up by putting limitations.

Yes, you do. You grow up by learning your boundaries. The best players figure out what they do well and emphasize it. Then you have players like Melo and Kobe who never learn. That's what you'll end up getting if you don't realize that bad shots are a big deal.

[Chinook]

Well, Pop said this week, he wants Kawhi posting more and more...he envisions him as a post-up player.

"We’re going to put (Leonard) in the post more and more, so he’s got to learn what his go-to moves are, what he feels comfortable with and the type of (defenders) that are going to come after him (while in the post). Just like they came after Timmy early in his career, they’ll go after Kawhi"

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-nothing-more/

The post game was completely different when Tim was learning it. It'll be easier for Kawhi with LMA and West instead of Splitter and Baynes. But that only goes so far. I'm fine with him posting up after getting good position off some movement and then going. There are a lot of ways to get to that point. I'm not okay with him trying to back a SF down from 16 feet away for five or six seconds before taking a turnaround.

[dabom]

Can someone show me at least 3 clips of kawhi backing someone down from the 16 foot mark?

[dabom]

He usually faces up from that distance.

[YGWHI]

My point was similar to Chinook's, in that if you want to force-feed Kawhi and run the offense through him, you're mainly going to get unassisted mid-range jumpers. He needs to be heavily involved, but not as the focal point where everything starts.

-The Spurs wont' to run the offense through Kawhi.

-Unassisted shots aren't that bad when you have a guy who can hit those jumpers.

55% of Kawhi playoffs shots in 2014 were unassisted and the Spurs won a ship.
Last season once Kawhi was fully recovered from his eye injury/blurry vision which affected his shooting, he was making those shots, too.

Frankly, I'm not worried about Kawhi shots.

[Chinook]

Can someone show me at least 3 clips of kawhi backing someone down from the 16 foot mark?

The video is full of them. The 16-foot mark is not that far for post position at all. But unless you have a mismatch or the post defender is horrible, it takes a really long time to get there.

[YGWHI]

I'm not okay with him trying to back a SF down from 16 feet away for five or six seconds before taking a turnaround.

Well, if his turnarounds look like in the first preseason game in Sacramento, I'm okay.

Kawhi was working a lot this summer in those moves, in 2014 he worked with two point guards, this off-season he trained with a PF and it was all about post moves.

[Chinook]

Well, if his turnarounds look like in the first preseason game in Sacramento, I'm okay.

Kawhi was working a lot this summer in those moves, in 2014 he worked with two point guards, this off-season he trained with a PF and it was all about post moves.

Kobe has practiced his 16-foot turnaround his whole career, and he's a phenomenal shooter. But we all know how that has turned out.

[YGWHI]

Kobe has practiced his 16-foot turnaround his whole career, and he's a phenomenal shooter. But we all know how that has turned out.

Again, I'm not worried. His turnaround/fadeaways look good, he isn't an inefficient player...

[dabom]

Kobe tore his Achilles.

[Chinook]

Kobe tore his Achilles.

Well yeah, I don't mean that. I mean how much of a chucker he ended up being. People forget that Kobe can or at least could shoot very well. But he shot-selection is horrible.

[apalisoc_9]

Yeah, and those aren't particularly good plays to call. It's one thing to iso on a mismatch. But why should the Spurs stop running their offense for Leonard to iso on decent defenders?

Because they're transitioning to to a team that relies on both Star power and Ball movement. You're going to have a healthy does of ISO relying on Star Production. What kind of offense are you going to run? The talent is changing in this team. It's starting to move towards to kawhi and now LMA. You build your offense around your best players. You're completely ignoring the fact that spurs used to run their offense based on a healthy does of Parker and Ginobili. That's rarely going to happen. They're base offense is now is going to start different.

I'm saying that even in that video he's taking bad shots.

He took 1 non-open contested Shots. That was a bad shot. Every darn Player that you're going to rely on to Put up Star numbers is going to have 2 or 3 bad shots a game. It's like you completely forgot how star players play. Sorry, You're never going to have a perfect player. Every System is going to have it's pros and cons..Relying on a 2014 spurs system might get you good shots, but it's isn't a consistently proven as relying on Star Production. I don't see why this team can't rely on both...relying on star Production will generate a couple of bad shots a game.

I'm not. You guys are the ones saying he should take iso midranges because they're his best shots. I'm saying those shots should be minimized in an offense. There are plenty of ways to get a player good shots, even midrange shots, that don't involve isolation plays. Even when the offense was completely Parker-centric the team had a lot of different ways of getting him the ball in motion and ready to shoot.

I never said it was his best shot. We're arguing that it should be added to the game because the team needs a healthy dose of offensive strategies. I realize it's not as beautiful as it looks, but believe it or not the game slows down in the Post-Season and sometimes if a piece in the offense isn't working the offense deteriorates and you'd need a slow one on one post play. Tim Duncan said the same in the LA series about Kawhi Post ups.. The team knows there will be situations where it's going to go dry and you need someone to bail you out. You're not going to learn by not taking those shots. Pop calls them what? 2 or 3 times a game? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Yes, the point of this balance is to find a way to get the offense to work to the "star". The offense is supposed to help him get open, and he's supposed to help others get going. Iso plays don't do that. It's good for a player to know how to score one-on-one, but by no means should an offense just stop for Kawhi, especially when he shares a lineup with four guys who all have higher career-scoring games than him. They all need the ball. Kawhi might be a 20 ppg scorer, but LMA will be at least that high. Danny will be 13-15 (or at least should because of his efficiency). Parker isn't dropping down to single-figures, and I expect Tim to still get double-digits as well. The Sours are not going to be the Kawhi show on offense for a whole season. Too much talent for that.

Again your completely trying to paint all Kawhi shots as ISO shots. Kawhi attacking on transition and the Midrange does provide open spacing. The only play that completely relies on him to make a play is his ISO post...That's probably not even 5% of his total points in a game. You're trying your best to paint majority of shots as you would call it "disgusting" when he probably takes 1 or 2 in a game of those. In comparison A guy like Aldridge who shots those jumpers at a much lower clip takes those shots significantly.

No 3 and D player will ever average 15 a game. I can't remember a player that's completely reliant on his 3 ball without much dribble that averaged 15ppg..specially not on a team like the spurs. In comparison, An offense like the Hawks that relies more on Korver to hit threes than Danny to hit threes on a spurs system to open up perimeter and lane spacing averaged a WHOOPING 12PPG... And that's without a player of Kawhi and Aldridge caliber on the team. If you think he's going to average 15, you're delusional.

Yes, you do. You grow up by learning your boundaries. The best players figure out what they do well and emphasize it. Then you have players like Melo and Kobe who never learn. That's what you'll end up getting if you don't realize that bad shots are a big deal.

Kawhi Needs to learn to tilt his shooting more to 10-16 shots and out of motion or dribble. I don't personally like post midrnage shots either, but they need him to consistently practice that for play situations when the offense is just flat out dry.

[spurraider21]

Well yeah, I don't mean that. I mean how much of a chucker he ended up being. People forget that Kobe can or at least could shoot very well. But he shot-selection is horrible.

In all fairness, if Kawhi's offensive game became as good as kobe's were in a really good place. He'd be an all timer

[apalisoc_9]

Kobe has practiced his 16-foot turnaround his whole career, and he's a phenomenal shooter. But we all know how that has turned out.

Those turnaround is part of his game. You're really trying your best to kill his improvements here. Pop wants him to shoot it in post up situations.

Your trying to compare his current game and make it look like it's similar to old hag kobe taking turn around jumpers.

[SpursIndonesia]

Who the would make a video just for that?

Anyway, yeah, there are a TON of poor shots in that video. Baseline fadeaways off cross court dribbles with 15 seconds left on the shot clock? Disgusting. Face-up jumpers with multiple teammates open beyond the arc? Yeah, not good. And these are his highlights. His shot-selection does suck.

What he did that I really liked in that vid is that he attacked mismatches. He used his speed against big guys and overpowered smalls. His highlights were almost exclusively in these situations, which is what you want. It also implies that he has less success against defenders his own size, which is to be expected. It's that diet of shots that he needs to cut back on, though, as well as early clock two-pointers.

It's really cool that Kawhi has the talent to make these plays work as much as they do. But that doesn't make those plays good for the offense at all.



Just because he doesn't have a better shot doesn't mean the TEAM doesn't have a better one. That's why Kawhi can't just jack up midrange shots all day. They're bad for a team, and if they're the best he can do, he needs to shoot less until that changes. Obviously things are different when he goes into big-head mode. But that's true of ever player.

Your basketball takes are always enjoyable & insightful, really appreciate it. Please keep it up and don't let the short bus crew distracting you.

[apalisoc_9]

Your basketball takes are always enjoyable & insightful, really appreciate it. Please keep it up and don't let the short bus crew distracting you.

If you can't even come up with your own argument. GTFO of this thread.

[K...]

If you can't even come up with your own argument. GTFO of this thread.

This is a dabom thread. The bar is looooooooooow for content

[K...]

Anyway, consensus, Kawhi iso is ok?

Seems like a few holdouts. I'm not one. Leonard won't have to win games on O, just when his match up is favourable. Otherwise he shots focus on defense and make open shots.

[dabom]

Kawhi needs more ISOs
because porker can't make jump s. Lmao

[SquawkinHawkBigCock]

dabom getting shat on per par