Qualcomm vs. The Superdome

[ChumpDumper]

Agreed, that's why I brought up the Galveston incident. They were at and below sea level, like New Orleans. Rather than let a disaster happen again, they filled the land, and built above sea level. New Orleans should have done the same thing rather than rely only on levies. It was always a disaster waiting to happen, and it will happen again sometime in the future. New Orleans has flooded before, yet they just don't get it.

Why cannot the people of Louisiana today be as smart as the people of 1900 Texas?

That's the dumbest argument ever. New Orleans is constantly sinking because of the flood control and navigations system built by the federal government. How is any city supposed to infill its entire land area to make up for sinking 1/4 inch to a full inch every year when the root cause is never addressed?

Using that logic, you are saying Californians should never build on a hill or in the woods -- or really anywhere considering earthquakes. Or Texans should never build any house on a 100-year river flood plain. Why don't they ever learn?

[Wild Cobra]

That's the dumbest argument ever. New Orleans is constantly sinking because of the flood control and navigations system built by the federal government.

To my knowledge, it is sinking primarily because it is reclaimed swamp land in those areas. Am I wrong? As the water slowly leaves the area, the earth does sink in those areas. At some point, the sinking will stop.

How is any city supposed to infill its entire land area to make up for sinking 1/4 inch to a full inch every year when the root cause is never addressed?

Root caue = below sea level! That is my point, it is never addressed in New Orleans, but was in Gaveston!

Using that logic, you are saying Californians should never build on a hill or in the woods -- or really anywhere considering earthquakes. Or Texans should never build any house on a 100-year river flood plain. Why don't they ever learn?

Not at all. Be aware of your surroundings and build appropriately.

Why are you always wrong when you assume my logic?

Nobody should build in a known flood plain. Houses can be anchored to the sides of cliffs and made earthquake resistant. Floods will happen in a flood plain, and without some serious spending like they do in the Netherlands, flood control is impossible when a big one comes. Even with as much experience they have over the years, they have serious problems. They have so much more land below sea level than New Orleans. New Orleans could be filled with soil.

Netherlands; Floods:

In years past, the Dutch coastline has changed considerably as a result of human intervention and natural disasters. Most notable in terms of land loss are the 1134 storm, which created the archipelago of Zeeland in the south west, and the 1287 storm, which killed 50,000 people and created the Zuiderzee (now dammed in and renamed the IJsselmeer — see below) in the northwest, giving Amsterdam direct access to the sea. The St. Elizabeth flood of 1421 and the mismanagement in its aftermath destroyed a newly reclaimed polder, replacing it with the 72 square kilometres (28 sq mi) Biesbosch tidal floodplains in the south-centre. The most recent parts of Zeeland were flooded during the North Sea Flood of 1953 and 1,836 people were killed, after which the Delta Plan was executed.

[Yonivore]

If they're going to rebuild New Orleans and hope this never happens again, they'd better invest in this type of construction:

[Wild Cobra]

If they're going to rebuild New Orleans and hope this never happens again, they'd better invest in this type of construction:

That's one way to do it.

[ChumpDumper]

To my knowledge, it is sinking primarily because it is reclaimed swamp land in those areas. Am I wrong? As the water slowly leaves the area, the earth does sink in those areas. At some point, the sinking will stop.

Wrong. The natural sedimentation process has been stopped by fllood and navigation channeling.

Root caue = below sea level!

NOLA didn't used to be below sea level, and Galveston was never below sea level.

That is my point, it is never addressed in New Orleans, but was in Galveston!

They had to build one wall in Galveston and raised 2000 buildings, and they only had to do it once. If the cause of the sinking isn't addressed, any raising effort is for naught.

Not at all. Be aware of your surroundings and build appropriately.

Why are you always wrong when you assume my logic?

I'm completely correct. You simply never think your half-baked ideas through.

[Wild Cobra]

Wrong. The natural sedimentation process has been stopped by fllood and navigation channeling.

The subsidence is continuing, and the claimed marshes are part of the problem. Some accounts have the issue of the lithosphere moving as not occuring for several thousand years. Different scientists disagree. The marsh land settling is not in disagreement.

NOLA didn't used to be below sea level, and Galveston was never below sea level.They had to build one wall in Galveston and raised 2000 buildings, and they only had to do it once. If the cause of the sinking isn't addressed, any raising effort is for naught.

My bad there. What they did was build Galvastan above flood levels. As for New Orleans, I suggest you look at an old map and see just how much is recovered from the marshes.

I'm completely correct. You simply never think your half-baked ideas through.

No you aren't.

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying we should go back in time and not build anything in the Mississippi floodplain. It's not all poor peoples houses you know.

[Hook Dem]

What good does it do to argue about any of this? Republicans are going to be Republicans and Democrats are going to be Democrats. Vote your concience and let it go at that!!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

What good does it do to argue about any of this? Republicans are going to be Republicans and Democrats are going to be Democrats. Vote your concience and let it go at that!!!!!

It's not a partisan issue and it was stupid to compare the two situations in the first place.

[Wild Cobra]

So you're saying we should go back in time and not build anything in the Mississippi floodplain. It's not all poor peoples houses you know.

What is your problem? Glasses too dark? I specifically made a statement implying that people need to know what they are getting into:

Not at all. Be aware of your surroundings and build appropriately. Take responsibility if something happens.

Is that to silly of a concept? It isn't a stretch at all to use such a logic as to where you choose to live, and know what the ramifications are.

People need to be responsible for their own actions., Not cry about it being someone else’s fault.

Why do you always have to pick something to argue about that I already explained?

Are you in Troll Mode again?

[Hook Dem]

It's not a partisan issue and it was stupid to compare the two situations in the first place.

Coulda fooled me!

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Coulda fooled me!

Just look at the idiot who started this thread.

[ChumpDumper]

What is your problem? Glasses too dark? I specifically made a statement implying that people need to know what they are getting into:

Right. Several generations after the fact.

Is that to silly of a concept? It isn't a stretch at all to use such a logic as to where you choose to live, and know what the ramifications are.

People need to be responsible for their own actions., Not cry about it being someone else’s fault.

Yes, people are responsible for being born into New Orleans and not having cars to leave. You are also saying there should be no disaster relief ever for anybody -- they knew that fire/tornado/flood/hurricane/earthquake/drought might happen.

Why do you always have to pick something to argue about that I already explained?

Are you in Troll Mode again?

It's not my fault you can't apply your tirade views to other situations.

[Wild Cobra]

It's not a partisan issue and it was stupid to compare the two situations in the first place.

You're right, it's not a partisan issue. It's about the quality of leadership at the first responder levels. The democrats blamed president Bush and FEMA, making it a partisan issue in Louisiana.

Lets' see. I haven't really followed much of this thread, but would I be correct to say that the city and county leaders in California did what they could to make Qualcom a place to stay? What did the leaders of New Orleans do? Nothing!

Now hindsight is 20/20, but didn't they know people would go there and not be responsible for bringing their own supplies? They could have gone to supermarkets and other stores and say we want these supplies, list in hand. We will pick them up and pay for them. The list could have been canned foods, fruits, vegetables, pots, pans, stoves, etc.

Even if that wasn't possible for some legal reason, the fact is, Mayor Nagan dropped the ball. So did the governor for not requesting federal help in a timely manner.

Sure, money has something to do with how well the individuals could help themselves, but in the face of imminent danger... What did Nagan do that was worth while?

Looks like most everything in California went right at the leadership levels.

[Nbadan]

Now hindsight is 20/20, but didn't they know people would go there and not be responsible for bringing their own supplies? They could have gone to supermarkets and other stores and say we want these supplies, list in hand. We will pick them up and pay for them. The list could have been canned foods, fruits, vegetables, pots, pans, stoves, etc.

The white folks took all the food and the gas....you remember the whole area was out of gas for weeks?

[Nbadan]

You're right, it's not a partisan issue. It's about the quality of leadership at the first responder levels. The democrats blamed president Bush and FEMA, making it a partisan issue in Louisiana.

Dubya wanted the feds to come in, but only on the precondition that Blanco took the full hit for FEMA's inability to be first-responders to this crisis....of course she wasn't gonna do that....

[Wild Cobra]

The white folks took all the food and the gas....you remember the whole area was out of gas for weeks?

Maybe the gas was gone, but not all the food. All I did was point out a simple plan that could have been done.

So tell me. What did Nagan do besides say leave?

You shouldn't bring the race thing into this. Look at the racial makeup of New Orleans first. According to the 2000 census, only 28.1% was white, 67.3% black. About a 12 to 5 ratio. The media loves telling us how much the blacks suffered, but whites were a minority, especially in the flood zones.

I wonder what the black/white ratio was in the flood areas? I heard it was more like 11 to 1, but I don't know. Anyone know for sure?

[Wild Cobra]

Dubya wanted the feds to come in, but only on the precondition that Blanco took the full hit for FEMA's inability to be first-responders to this crisis....of course she wasn't gonna do that....

Not true. He couldn't let them in by law until she authorized them to go in. Now FEMA did have some problems, but they were not *the* problem.

[Nbadan]

Maybe the gas was gone, but not all the food. All I did was point out a simple plan that could have been done.

So tell me. What did Nagan do besides say leave?

You shouldn't bring the race thing into this. Look at the racial makeup of New Orleans first. According to the 2000 census, only 28.1% was white, 67.3% black. About a 12 to 5 ratio. The media loves telling us how much the blacks suffered, but whites were a minority, especially in the flood zones.

I wonder what the black/white ratio was in the flood areas? I heard it was more like 11 to 1, but I don't know. Anyone know for sure?

What could Nagan do....it's not like he could go round up some school buses and say, 'let's ride'.....that would have required thousands of gallons of gas..and that kinda coordination should have come at the Governors office and from FEMA......FEMA's 'emergency plan' all along for this type of disaster was to stick people in the Superdome....I mean, those that couldn't leave on their own.....the real travesty is that the people who could leave loaded up cars with their possessions and left their fellow New Orleaners behind....now that's the real story behind this tragedy....

[Nbadan]

Not true. He couldn't let them in by law until she authorized them to go in. Now FEMA did have some problems, but they were not *the* problem.

Posse whateva....the Bush lawyers took care of that non-obstacle.....yeah sure, Blanco didn't want the FEDS coming in cause Dubya is a Republican....believe what you want....but I'm telling you that Dubya wanted to come riding in with the Army a few days later to save the day, just like it happened...now who's playing politics with tragedy?

[MannyIsGod]

Seriously? A Catagory Five Hurricane being compared to brush fires in the hills? Seriously?

[Yonivore]

Seriously? A Catagory Five Hurricane being compared to brush fires in the hills? Seriously?

It was a category 3 when it made landfall.

And, they are densely populated hills.

[MannyIsGod]

It was a category 3 when it made landfall.

And, they are densely populated hills.

LOL @ you trying to compare a catagory 3 hurricane over a stadium (with cat 5 storm surge all around it) and fires in the hills away from a stadium.

[Yonivore]

LOL @ you trying to compare a catagory 3 hurricane over a stadium (with cat 5 storm surge all around it) and fires in the hills away from a stadium.

at you for not knowing the difference between a prepared population and an unprepared population.

[MannyIsGod]

This is why its impossible to debate with you. You're taking 2 entirely different scenarios and trying to use them as a comparison against each other. Whether or not either city was prepared is can't even be discussed because the basis for your argument is so poor. There are points you can make about the lack of preparation in New Orleans without pointing to this current situation that are completely valid. Thats not the point.

If you think you can use the San Diego situation as a comparison to the New Orleans situation then you either have no understanding of hurricanes (especially those of catagory 3 and above) or you're mildly re ed.

I suspect its a little of both in your case, Yoni. Have a nice day!