I said they weren't paid in currency.
he means "10%".
A " he" of land was set aside for widows and orphans to use. A " he" of food was set aside for those who worked in the Temple. And so on, and so on.
But, once again, these were Jewish traditions. They have nothing to do with Christian philosophy/doctrine.
Yet another instance where you feel the need to make an argument for me.
In case you missed it the first time around.
It is difficult to have a discussion with people when they are constantly inventing arguments for the other side, only to balk at them, and then claim that they've somehow made a point.
You have yet to prove anything at all.So rather than back off you still insist on making a complete fool of yourself.
I've already proven you are a backpeddaling liar. You've got nothing on me.
But if you want to continue down that path be my guest.
Besides, for all your bold banter who says you get to make the rules around here.? Yes, I believe the Old Testament is still part of the equation. It is still a fundamental piece in understanding our place with GOD. If you don't like it, tough, you don't have to agree with me. I'm not here trying to convince you of anything. But by the same token you can't just say the argument is null simply cause that suits your argument better.
I simply didn't want to embarrass you further... Furthermore I didn't want to be accused of acting belligerently... One of my favorite cop out arguments for people who can't handle their discussion with a Christian.
But if you insist....
And, you keep using the OT on a Christian arguement.
I think you're Jewish at heart.
Except for the little fact that GOD still has His ministers....
My point is that you're using the OT on a Christian arguement.
You have not given me any text on the NT to back up any of your arguements.
Extra Stout has. He makes sense. You don't.
How can a supposed Christian try to make a case on Christian principles using the OT????
In case you missed it, or slept through most of your father's sermons, Christianity is based on the Gospel of Jesus Christ!!!
And, that can only be found in the NT.
Jesus Christ, in human form, was around in the OT.
I believe you don't even remember what the argument was? You keep harping on the tangents.
Your lie:
I didn't say I was judging all pastors. [what I meant to say, was that I was judging all conniving televangelists, even though when someone pointed out that they weren't the topic... I stuck to my guns]
But, they weren't paid in currency . . . which was my point.
A point that flew right past you.
I'm not going to discuss theology with you because it obviously you don't believe JESUS is GOD.
Jesus was around since the Creation of the world. He walked with Adam. He visited Abraham. Rescued Lot out of Sodom. He rescued Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego from the fiery furnace.
You clearly don't understand Christ's role at all.
This was my original quote, and I stand by it:
If you need help understanding that, let me know.Since god has no need for human currency, I'll judge them all I want.
They lead a life of luxury while those who hold on to faith live in misery.
No it didn't by that time ES made it very clear. [You know some of us work, and can't sit by the computer all day long arguing with a brick wall like yourself].
There was no point to repeating what ES had already stated.
No... you need help admitting when you've made an error, and moving on.
You clearly don't understand either, becuase Jesus is the SON of God.
He was God's first creation.
"God so love the world, that he gave his only begotten son." - John 3:16.
You know, the whole concept of God giving his only son as sacrifice to redeem humanity.
You know, the entire basis of Christianity.
(I'm still waiting for you to back up any arguement you may have with actual text from the NT)
To clear this up with you....
Yes they are.
But they are only relevant in the context of the Hebrew law... which is no longer relevant to us.
The hing practice was ins uted by GOD going back to Genesis. It was officially established during the days of the Tabernacle. It was later used as a means of supporting ministers (the apostles) and early church pastors like Timothy. Unlike hing under law, hing now is an act of faith - one that shows our dependence on GOD, and one that allows his faithful ministers to subsist.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 11-09-2007 at 11:20 AM.
I'm not here to convince you that JESUS is GOD. But obviously this is your main point of contention. The fact that I do, however gives you no right to assert that I am wrong.
And since I actually have to work. You'll just have to wait until I get out of work for the 20+ passages that reveal this Truth.
Also I made several NT references you just plainly chose to ignore... but who's counting. And consider this: Who financially supported Jesus' ministry, Paul's, Peter's, Timothy's? Ah yes... people willing to obey GOD with MONETARY donations, food and hospitality allowing the work of theses ministers to continue. No, these ministers didn't loath in excess, but 1) I never 'defended' that side of the argument and 2) they nevertheless made a living by their role. A fact which took you 5 pages to finally accept.
I like how you hide behind someone else.
ES made a point by using NT text, but I had already been asking you that way before he did it.
Don't hide underneath skirts.
You've NEVER given any text from the NT.
And, why wait???
I'm at work too, and I gave you text from the NT. Why can't you do the same??
What's going to happen is that you're going to go to daddy so he can give you the textual evidence you seek. Then you're going to come back her to attempt to prove a point.
I've done it all on my own.
That's what I hate about people like you. You call yourself a Christian, but all you do is sit down in church and listen to what some random person is telling you. You've never studied the bible. You don't know it. And yet, you try to defend whatever faith you have.
Good luck with all that.
Nice of you to twist the facts yet again.
Oh and keep ignoring all the tidbits that never suited your argument.
You are one SORE debater.
Now if you please I must go back to work.
cue: One final jab by PeeWee.
"God so love the world, that he gave his only begotten son." - John 3:16.
I'm posting it again, for your benefit.
You can find it in any version of the bible.
Interesting thread. I'm glad I'm not religious.
Twisting the facts??Nice of you to twist the facts yet again.
Oh and keep ignoring all the tidbits that never suited your argument.
You are one SORE debater.
Now if you please I must go back to work.
cue: One final jab by PeeWee.
You've never posted any text from the NT to prove your arguement!!
That's a fact.
And, you posted a lame excuse that ES had already posted one . . . eventhough I had been asking you to do that way before he did.
But, good try.
Cue the 5 hour wait so Phenomanul can get his dad's help and then come post a couple of sermons.
Peewee sounds like a Jehovahs witness and Phenom sound like a christian that believes in the trinity......father, son and the holy spirit......3 beings in one. GOD.
Amarite?
IF so, you two will NEVER agree on each other theology......so yall might as well quit bickering now.
Jehovahs......"in the begging was A god.........
Christian........"in the begging was god........
Its all different thinking from this point on.
The Christian adoption of the he occurred after the legalization of the Church in A.D. 313. Prior to that time, since the Church was an underground movement whose members lived more or less communally out of necessity, the concept of the he would not have made sense -- they regarded all their resources as common to the church.
The Ante-Nicene fathers do not refer to the he specifically, but they do refer to the giving of "firstfruits" to the clergy and to the poor. Several proclaim that the rich are obligated to give more generously than the poor.
It should be noted that both the Hebrew he and the Christian he through medieval times were in kind, since until recent times, farmers and craftsmen made up the bulk of the population.
The practice of the he is not uniform throughout Christendom. Especially in countries where there is no separation of church and state, the church will receive funding from the tax rolls. This is how it is in Russia, and is part of the reason the Russian Orthodox Church is the U.S. is always strapped for cash -- its parishioners are not accustomed to giving.
In some European countries, registered church members are required to pay a tax between 1% and 2.5% of their income to the church. If they want to stop paying the tax, they must pe ion to be removed from the church rolls, in which case they will no longer be allowed to take comminion.
In sum, I cannot say definitively that the he is binding upon Christians. However, it pays to notice that the Southern Baptists, who are just about the most faithful hers out there, can fund several Christian colleges, and have one of the most potent international missions organizations in all of Christendom, while the Orthodox, who are just about the worst, have virtually no profile whatsoever outside of the traditionally Orthodox nations.
I've been in (and subsequently left) a church that squandered millions of dollars of hes and offerings on pointless remodeling. In a church like that which has way too much money to begin with, I don't see the point of giving them the he. Better to send that money directly to missions or to a struggling young church that can use the money. I also question building a 10,000-seat megachurch complex complete with theater seats, a surround-sound A/V system, and a restaurant. But who can argue against the faithful stewardship to resources to promote the spread of the gospel and the discipleship of church members, and to help those in need?
The trinity was incorportated by the Catholic Church as a way to please the pagans that they tried to convert all over Europe. This is historical fact. The pagans of Europe, prior to the arrival of Jesus, had already developed the concept of a tri-god. Implementing the concept of the trinity to the Christian faith made for a smoother transition in terms of converting the pagans.
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