Israel attacks one of 6 ships bringing humanitarian aid to gaza

[sook]

I respond to terrorist sympathizing with blind Israeli sympathy. It's how I role, if you don't like it, then stop sympathizing with people who fly planes into buildings.

the people on the boats were flying planes into buildings?

I missed that last part, link please.

And if that is the case I feel the same way as you. I don't like grouping an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, and I feel this way accross the board.

[sook]

coming from someone who thinks Al jihada is a legitimate news source.

LOL no! My point was exactly the opposite!

I said taking that as credible is just like take al jazzeeera as your link. Both are biased.

[angrydude]

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

the people on the boats were flying planes into buildings?

I missed that last part, link please.

And if that is the case I feel the same way as you. I don't like grouping an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, and I feel this way accross the board.

9/11 was committed in the name of Islam as a Jihadist act, and no prominent islamic figure spoke out against it, therefore I can only assume the majority of those who practice Islam were in favor of the attacks.

[sook]

I spent most of last night discussing it. I come to the thread today and see all the ad-hominem attacks.

you haven't built a concrete arguement to any of my posts.

DOK is saying the boat people fly planes into buildings and you continue with your ameture psychoanalysis.

They attacked in international waters.

Under "INTERNATIONAL LAW" that is wrong.

That is where the argument begins. You aren't even giving me that.

[sook]

9/11 was committed in the name of Islam as a Jihadist act, and no prominent islamic figure spoke out against it, therefore I can only assume the majority of those who practice Islam were in favor of the attacks.

i find that hard to believe. That is an extremely RADICAL take on the situation. I hope you don't feel that way.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

i find that hard to believe. That is an extremely RADICAL take on the situation. I hope you don't feel that way.

Islam is an extremely radical religion.

[sook]

link?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10208027.stm


BBC, which qualifies as a proper source. Not some stupid website led by a radical.

[Shastafarian]

you haven't built a concrete arguement to any of my posts.

What posts have you said anything of substance?

DOK is saying the boat people fly planes into buildings and you continue with your ameture psychoanalysis.

I'm waiting on a link to that article you posted before I respond to it directly

They attacked in international waters.

Under "INTERNATIONAL LAW" that is wrong.

That is where the argument begins. You aren't even giving me that.

I've already had a lengthy argument with ElNono about it last night. If you had read the thread before calling people names you would have known that.

[sook]

Islam is an extremely radical religion.

I think those people are in the minority and increase when actions like these incite hatred across the world.

[sook]

What posts have you said anything of substance?

I'm waiting on a link to that article you posted before I respond to it directly



I'll already had a lengthy argument with ElNono about it last night. If you had read the thread before calling people names you would have known that.

then wait for me to post the link. Don't go pulling me into your tangential arguments to detract from the facts.

here it is again and ^^^^

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10208027.stm

Now respond to me BASED ON THE INFO.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think those people are in the minority and increase when actions like these incite hatred across the world.

I agree, and it's because of knee jerk liberals who believe the Islamic propaganda that their population is peaceful. If Islamics were so peaceful it doesn't make sense that all countries controlled by Islamics are in a constant state of anarchy.

[Shastafarian]

Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

The objects in the video were metal. And I'm talking about the video shot by people on the boat.

Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.

The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.
The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.

lol yeah the soliders weren't being attacked

"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

There may not have been knives. But from the video of the raid, this guy is clearly full of .

"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."

She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.
UN criticism

Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.

He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey. Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire.

Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said.

Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza.

Following the Israeli sea-born raid, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened.

The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007, although special medical cases are occasionally allowed through.

The Egyptian state news agency said the latest opening was to allow humanitarian aid through. It is not clear how long it will be kept open.

The UN Security Council issued a statement after deliberating through the night.

It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Did your principles come into play when you omitted the rest of the article? Or was that just an honest mistake?

Barbara Plett, the BBC's UN correspondent in New York, said the statement was the result of a compromise between Turkey and the US, Israel's closest ally.

In its defence, Israel released footage showing soldiers landing on the Turkish ship and being apparently attacked.

Captain Aria Shaliker of the Israel Defense Forces, who was part of Monday's operation, says the commandos began the raids armed with paint ball guns.

"I was, myself, on one of the boats, the Israeli boats, approaching the flotilla," he told the BBC's World Today programme.

"It is true that the Israeli commander unit... came on board with paint ball weapons... in order to disperse [people] if there was violence. They were ready for a violent... demonstration on board the flotilla, especially on the big boat, the Marmara.

"No-one really expected that there would be such a violent outcome of what happened.
Continue reading the main story

The Security Council deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force during the Israeli military operation in international waters against the convoy sailing to Gaza

UN Security Council statement UN text on Israel convoy raid Send us your comments

"First, you know, the soldiers tried to disperse, but in the end when they were shot at, you know when there was shooting... from the other side, there's no other way than turning from paint ball to live ammunition."

Of the 679 activists brought to the Israeli port of Ashdod, only 50 agreed to be voluntarily deported and more than 30 are being treated in hospital for their injuries, reports the BBC's Wyre Davies in Jerusalem.

That means that almost 600 people, from several countries, are still being held in detention centres across Israel and being questioned by the authorities.

And if you watch the close-up video of the raid, you can see the soldiers appear to be wielding paintball guns when they first land on the ship. I guess getting beaten repeatedly with metal objects tends to force people to go to live ammunition.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Is it standard procedure for "humanitarian" ships to have tons of weapons on them?

[Shastafarian]

then wait for me to post the link.

Why didn't you post the link with your original post? Because you didn't think I'd ask for it thereby seeing you omitted an entire section of the story?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Looks like I'm voting Republican next election. Democrats like sook should really alter their anti-Semitic agenda if they want any shot at winning the Jew vote like they always have.

[sook]

Is it standard procedure for "humanitarian" ships to have tons of weapons on them?

Tons of weapons? There were some weapons but you'll find that on any ship sailing to fend from pirates etc.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Going by these premises, and no, you can't just jump to the last line since it goes in order, they had no right to board the ship

[ElNono]

Is it standard procedure for "humanitarian" ships to have tons of weapons on them?

Really?
You think Hamas was going to start firing metal rods at Israel if the ships arrived?

[Shastafarian]

Looks like I'm voting Republican next election. Democrats like sook should really alter their anti-Semitic agenda if they want any shot at winning the Jew vote like they always have.

Don't let disingenuous article-editors like him sway you. Most democrats I know try to be truthful and present the entire story.

[ElNono]

And before this takes a silly turn, I actually have no problem with what Israel did. I have a problem with WHEN they did it. It was extremely stupid.

[sook]

Looks like I'm voting Republican next election. Democrats like sook should really alter their anti-Semitic agenda if they want any shot at winning the Jew vote like they always have.

I vote independent or libertarian. I never vote democrat.

And you're right, the jew vote is huge, but i'm sure stupid jews are a rare occurrence and will be seeded out through natural selection.

its safe to say I've never met a stupid jew in my life, so I don't know about your case too well.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

There were some weapons

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Going by these premises, and no, you can't just jump to the last line since it goes in order, they had no right to board the ship

Why the is Israel supposed to comply with every single UN policy when towel head countries violate them all the time? Once again the liberal double standard that holds Israel way above the standards dirka dirka countries are held to.

[Shastafarian]

Really?
You think Hamas was going to start firing metal rods at Israel if the ships arrived?

No but what were all rods they supposedly found on board for? As long as there are weapons on board, does it matter what they intend to do with them once they get to their destination?

[sook]

Why the is Israel supposed to comply with every single UN policy when towel head countries violate them all the time? Once again the liberal double standard that holds Israel way above the standards dirka dirka countries are held to.

do you know why Israel is there today? The UN CREATED THEM LOL

Way to bite the hand that fed/created you.

And there is no justification in breaking the law stupid. This only shows your intelligence. You cant go off and do w.e you want

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This is just the latest example of bushleague sand ###### tactics. Similar to hiding behind civilians and suicide bombings, they hide weapons on a "humanitarian" ship so Israel is painted in a negative spotlight when they raid a ship that would be supplying weapons to people fighting Israel.