What about flouride?

[RandomGuy]

motive of what? $ is the driving motive behind our entire civilization. I dont know why motive keeps coming up.

Because you have implied that the decision to floridate SAWS water was driven by the unproven sale of waste floride from Toyota to SAWS.

flouridation of SA water started just prior to Toyota's commitment to open the plant there. co-in-se-dink?

A really unproven assertion.

The company that actually sells the chemical to SAWS, per the bid (there were no competing bidders) is not Toyota.

It is this company:
http://www.pencco.com/

[RandomGuy]

It boils down to govt knows best. dosing to them means win-win. strong economy, less sick people, no geographic polluted hot-spots, and maybe healthier teeth. Industry can turn a profit and fund the scrubbing requirements. And only the weakest/youngest will get sick. But the process needs to be transparent. Just like Iraq, govt knows best. but the process needs transparency.

It all boils down to the fact that you have made several easily debunked claims of motive and conspiracy here, and when pressed fall back on glib generalities.

You can't prove motive, you can barely prove that there is some reason to think it isn't all that effective.

Your theory that "industry can turn a profit" is really really stretching the point.

If it costs less than $700,000 per year for a major city like SA, the overall amount of money involved hardly seems to rise to the level of a vast corporate interest, does it?

The only thing lacking transparency is you.

Tell me what proof of motive you have here or withdraw the assertion.

[Parker2112]

It all boils down to the fact that you have made several easily debunked claims of motive and conspiracy here, and when pressed fall back on glib generalities.

You can't prove motive, you can barely prove that there is some reason to think it isn't all that effective.

Your theory that "industry can turn a profit" is really really stretching the point.

If it costs less than $700,000 per year for a major city like SA, the overall amount of money involved hardly seems to rise to the level of a vast corporate interest, does it?

The only thing lacking transparency is you.

Tell me what proof of motive you have here or withdraw the assertion.

700k, in addition to the corresponding reduction in otherwise-necessary disposal costs, andaccount for the fact that these emitters/sources dont exist in every town/city (far from it), but the product is sold to most municipalities.

Do that math for me please.

[Parker2112]

It boils down to govt knows best. dosing to them means win-win. strong economy, less sick people, no geographic polluted hot-spots, and maybe healthier teeth. Industry can turn a profit and fund the scrubbing requirements. And only the weakest/youngest will get sick. But the process needs to be transparent. Just like Iraq, govt knows best. but the process needs transparency.

this is actually the argument you want to make. This is the winning argument. This is why your water is dosed.

youre on a dead-end trail.

[Blake]

this is actually the argument you want to make. This is the winning argument. This is why your water is dosed.

youre on a dead-end trail.

Who exactly in the "industry" stands to profit?

Names of corporations or CEOs will suffice.

[Parker2112]

Who exactly in the "industry" stands to profit?

Names of corporations or CEOs will suffice.

lets just say corporations stay out of court, CEOs keep jobs. Shareholders are happy. Employees stay employed. Contracts get paid. Local residents dont get sick. Corps avoid bankruptcy. Fertilizer gets made. Crops yield. Win Win Win Win Win.

Yet the public isnt made privy to the policy decisions. Thats the way it goes when the powers that be know best.

[ChumpDumper]

Toyota makes fertilizer?

[Parker2112]

700k, in addition to the corresponding reduction in otherwise-necessary disposal costs, andaccount for the fact that these emitters/sources dont exist in every town/city (far from it), but the product is sold to most municipalities.

Do that math for me please.

1. how many factories emit sodium flouride?
2. How many municipalities buy?
3. What is the cost to properly dispose?
4. What are the costs of evading emissions requirements? costs to a corp in litigation? costs per capita for those affected? costs for those who become sick? costs to employees who develop symptoms?
5. How much is imported from China?
6 Is the supply from abroad safe?
7. Is anything from China safe as a general rule?
8. How much cost will we bear later if Chinese sodium flourid contains things like arsenic?

waiting for your calculations....

[Blake]

lets just say corporations stay out of court, CEOs keep jobs. Shareholders are happy. Employees stay employed. Contracts get paid. Local residents dont get sick. Corps avoid bankruptcy. Fertilizer gets made. Crops yield. Win Win Win Win Win.

Yet the public isnt made privy to the policy decisions. Thats the way it goes when the powers that be know best.

Strawmen. Lose Lose Lose Lose Lose.

[Parker2112]

Toyota makes fertilizer?

Do some homework on sodium flouride.

[ChumpDumper]

Do some homework on sodium flouride.

You are saying Toyota makes sodium fluoride and sells it to SAWS?

Prove it.

[Parker2112]

Strawmen. Lose Lose Lose Lose Lose.

I didnt shift the argument in the least. You dont understand "strawman" arguments.

You dont need names. Industry practices, efficiency, and profitability dont require names.

"these aren't the droids your looking for.."

but for real.

these arent the droids youre looking for.

[Parker2112]

You are saying Toyota makes sodium fluoride and sells it to SAWS?

Prove it.

never said that. That doesnt even have to be the case. If it was that simple, any whistle blower could bring this into public discussion which no one wants. If the point was to keep the business profitable, an arangement so simple would defeat the whole purpose.

[ChumpDumper]

never said that.

Then what the are you saying about Toyota and fluoride?

[Parker2112]

Then what the are you saying about Toyota and fluoride?

that SA began flouridating before Toyota committed.

Do I assume to know if the two are tied? no.
Do I knowthat sodium flouride waste is emitted from that plant? yes.
Does it make me su ious about the timing? yes.
Do I think that you or I know the details of how sodium flouride gets from source to water supply? Routes, shipping, packaging, etc? no.

Tell me this skeptics: Where does the sodium flouride supply for all these municipalities come from? Name some manufacturers.

I'll wait.

[ChumpDumper]

that SA began flouridating before Toyota committed.

And?

I'll wait.

[Parker2112]

And?

I'll wait.

convenient response.

We'll wait.

[ChumpDumper]

Do I think that you or I know the details of how sodium flouride gets from source to water supply? Routes, shipping, packaging, etc?

Do I think you even know if sodium fluoride is being used by SAWS?

No.

I won't wait anymore.

[Parker2112]

Do I think you even know if sodium fluoride is being used by SAWS?

No.

I won't wait anymore.

NaF is used to polish chrome and etch glass. educate yourself. or Ill resist waiting and do it for you.

[Winehole23]

Tell me this skeptics: Where does the sodium flouride supply for all these municipalities come from? Name some manufacturers.

I'll wait.

This is essentially the same question that Blake just asked you. Make your own damn case, Parker.

We'll wait.

[ChumpDumper]

NaF is used to polish chrome and etch glass. educate yourself. or Ill resist waiting and do it for you.

Do I think you even know if sodium fluoride is being used by SAWS?

No.

I won't wait anymore.

[Parker2112]

This is essentially the same question that Blake just asked you. Make your own damn case, Parker.

We'll wait.

the sources showing NaF is a toxic byproduct from multiple sources and sold for use in drinking water are noted in this thread, either directly or in linked info. I cant rehash this every 2 weeks.

[ChumpDumper]

Wait, are you saying that Toyota etches glass and polishes chrome at its San Antonio assembly plant, then collects all the leftover sodium fluoride from the rags and tools, and sells it to SAWS which then puts it in the water supply?

Is that really your theory?

[Parker2112]

I dont wish to persuade anyone. The info is here, the very same info that I have read/seen/heard is all in this thread somewhere. To each man his own. But its not as simple as "Its a conspiracy theory" or "its a conspiracy." That is all.

[ChumpDumper]

Wait, are you saying that Toyota etches glass and polishes chrome at its San Antonio assembly plant, then collects all the leftover sodium fluoride from the rags and tools, and sells it to SAWS which then puts it in the water supply?

Is that really your theory?