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That his dunking is still revered and idolized by older players and fans, but doesn't hold up well today, aesthetically, like virtually everything from that era..
Ryan Kelly would probably be an all nba player in the 80s imo...dude is pretty darn athletic relative to 80s players.
That his dunking is still revered and idolized by older players and fans, but doesn't hold up well today, aesthetically, like virtually everything from that era
Agreed, but a stronger version. Kelly is already 230lbs in his rookie year, Bill Walton was barely 209lbs (lol).
Chase Budinger, too! Cracker Ginger has like a 40-inch vert and was co-MVP of McD AA game with Durant!
I waz watching tapes of Jerry West with a few buddies of mine two weeks ago who were sadly mainstream fans.Gave me a headache..I had to watch any basketbsll that day to make up for that game..I ended up watching Shane Larkin and boy was it aspirin to my eyes
Pretty much. Can you google and post the dunk ryan kelly made two weeks ago? Im on my phone...dude.would be a legit superstar in the 70s.
Ya, it makes you pause and think when you realize that so many of the superstars in that era were playing in a league where over the quarter of the players were White Americans
KL2, you ever going to send me that referal brah? I know you told me three days ago work you work for a great Organization office..would help me in my dream of doing something related to the NBA.
Help a young fella out...I promised i wont disclose organization so help a out man
There can't be counter arguments if there is no argument.
You are starting to make me realize that messi>diego with these takes of yours
DAF would certainly agree with you
Great players evolve with the times. As I've pointed out to Apa and KL2 many, many times, human athleticism has already peaked. Long jump, high jump, hurdles, etc records have stagnated for about 30 years now. Only the 100m has seen any progress, and scientists say Bolt is near the theoretical peak of human speed. I mean, a one legged Tim Duncan is still a top big man in today's supposedly hyper athletic/hyper skilled league
The primary reasons the NBA game looks so much more fluid and skillful today has a lot more to do with the rule changes and an overall massive evolution of offensive systems than any kind of meaningful gain in athleticism (there's been gains in skill, but not to the extent claimed). David Robinson, Orlando-era Shaq, and Hakeem make bigs today look athletically/skillfully pedestrian. It's why a senior citizen Tim Duncan can sleepwalk to a double-double every night.
Overall wing depth is greater, sure, but Jordan is still lighting up today's game, probably even more so because he would be playing in a more evolved system than the Triangle and under rule changes that amplify all of his strengths. Bird would kill in pace-and-space. He'd stretch 4 the out opposing offenses, and unlike a lot stretch 4s, who function as mostly spot up shooters, Bird would be able to devastate opponents with his passing as defenses scramble to cover him. He would also do damage from the midpost. Pippen couldn't stop him from there. I don't know if he would reach top ten status playing exclusively in this era, but he would be consistent all-star and MVP winner/candidate. A small ball lineup with Bird at the 4 would be in' scary. Today's game actually rewards basketball IQ and skills more than ever before. Manu is probably retired at 37 if he played in the 90's. That era wouldn't suit the current skillset and athleticism he has at his advanced age.
The only players who don't make it today are the thugs, the X-Man (90's version), Mahorn, John Salley type of players only good for hard fouls and intimidation. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Pippen, etc would easily evolve as us Spurs fans have seen Duncan evolve about 30 times.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 11-29-2015 at 10:11 AM.
Even if you are to assume todays players are only minimally more atheletic, youd have to be lying if you think that the previous eras were just as skillful.Great players evolve with the times. As I've pointed out to Apa and KL2 many, many times, human athleticism has already peaked. Long jump, high jump, hurdles, etc records have stagnated for about 30 years now. Only the 100m has seen any progress, and scientists say Bolt is near the theoretical peak of human speed. I mean, a one legged Tim Duncan is still a top big man in today's supposedly hyper athletic/hyper skilled league
The primary reasons the NBA game looks so much more fluid and skillful today has a lot more to do with the rule changes and an overall massive evolution of offensive systems than any kind of meaningful gain in athleticism (there's been gains in skill, but not to the extent claimed). David Robinson, Orlando-era Shaq, and Hakeem make bigs today look athletically/skillfully pedestrian. It's why a senior citizen Tim Duncan can sleepwalk to a double-double every night.
Overall wing depth is greater, sure, but Jordan is still lighting up today's game, probably even more so because he would be playing in a more evolved system than the Triangle and under rule changes that amplify all of his strengths. Bird would kill in pace-and-space. He'd stretch 4 the out opposing offenses, and unlike a lot stretch 4s, who function as mostly spot up shooters, Bird would be able to devastate opponents with his passing as defenses scramble to cover him. He would also do damage from the midpost. Pippen couldn't stop him from there. I don't know if he would reach top ten status playing exclusively in this era, but he would be consistent all-star and MVP winner/candidate. A small ball lineup with Bird at the 4 would be in' scary. Today's game actually rewards basketball IQ and skills more than ever before. Manu is probably retired by now if he was a 90's player. That era wouldn't suit the current skillset and athleticism he has at his advanced age.
The only players who don't make it today are the thugs, the X-Man, Mahorn, John Salley type of players only good for hard fouls and intimidation. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Pippen, etc would easily evolve as us Spurs fans have seen Duncan evolve about 30 times.
No way..
Todays players are just more skillful.Period.
No. I said there have been gains in skill, but it's not this massive exponential leap from the 80's to today. It's also not hard to evolve your skills rather quickly, just look at Leonard's progression. But as much as skills have improved among the wings, they've plummeted for bigs. Like I said, it's why Tim Duncan can still play at not just a high level, but a very high level. Bigs today are either straight monkeyballers or jumpshooters. You can blame AAU for this, since if you're an athletic and tall player coming through that system, you can basically coast on your size/athleticism advantage, even in the NCAA, until the NBA. Think of a piece of like Nerlens Noel. And a player like Anthony Davis is basically a very, very poor man's David Robinson, from skills to athleticism.
I think we all agree that today's players are bigger, quicker, stronger, etc.
But, you can't take the best players of other generations and automatically assume that they couldn't/wouldn't find a way to succeed in today's game. Just some random guy sitting at the end of an 80's bench....sure I'll go with that.
I mean for god's sake....Larry Legend a D-Leaguer at best? Really?
imagine Bird in today's softer NBA, would get more FT's, score more 3 pointers and don't get me started on his high basketball IQ vs athletic dumbasses like DeAndre Jordan
Birds high IQ traded Kawi leonard for a wannabe pornstar
Bigs are much more talented and athletic in todays game. Hakeem, Drob and many other 90s guys are in my opinion modern basketball players.
I think in general the 90s was the beggining of modern era basketball in terms of athletic ability..the skill was still improving and the system was nowhere near to todays smart offense.
Strength and athleticism peaked in the 90's and has stayed about that point ever since. Not because 90's players were such great athletic specimens, but human's can't much more athletic than they are now. Still haven't seen a freak like David Robinson. Lebron is probably the closet thing with his overall size/speed/athleticism ratio.
We've seen a gain in the size/athleticism dept since the 80's, though. Not because those athletes were , but because they trained differently for a different style of basketball that prioritized stamina over everything else. In those days, players were loathe to put on bulk/muscle because they didn't want compromise their stamina and quickness. It's also why Byron Scott, a player from that era, is so obsessed with running those silly suicide drills. He's stuck in a era that really didn't go too deep into the bench, there was a lot more running and fast breaking, and you needed better conditioning than your opponents to win games.
Like who?
Dwight Howard?
DeAndre Jordan?
Greg Monroe? -to-Decent
Andre Drummond? Decent
Hassan Whiteside? Decent/Good
Gobert? Decent
Bigs rarely carry 2 way loads anymore, and primarily exist as monkeyballing rebounders and shotblockers who get a lot of their points off put backs/lobs. Davis is the only "complete" big, and he doesn't seem as good as advertised. It's why way past their prime skillful/high IQ bigs like Pau and Tim can still get doubles-doubles in their sleep. And it's not a function of the game moving to the perimeter, either. We'd even see more lethal offense the league over if these AAU reared players had developed anything resembling an offensive game.
If you are comparing them to 90s players obviously the guys you mentioned arent as good as drob.
But ive already stated a million times that modern basketball started in the 90s...
The guys you listed are preneial all stars in the 80..and are superstars in the 70
Probably, I mean, they're all-star level players today, and today's game is kind of like an evolved 80's style of basketball, but Kareem and McHale are still getting theirs against them. 80's wasn't really a big-oriented era, though. As I said, the whole strategy back then was about fast breaking and running your opponent to exhaustion. It's why the physiques of 80's players look more like marathon runners. Lean, but not much musculature. Teams with big lops at center, like the Utah Jazz (Eaton) even with Karl Malone and the Bullets with Manute Bol were terrible-to-average teams. Only the Rockets made any noise with a twin tower lineup, but Hakeem and Sampson could run the floor pretty well. Still, the most wins they got in the era was 51.
Doubt that. All Star weekend stopped the skills compe ion because players were embarrassing themselves.
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