12 Thoughts After the Spurs Draft Stephon Castle, Trade Rob Dillingham

[MultiTroll]

Also, crazy idea, but you can pick Dill and trade him down the road.

Not crazy at all compared to the 2030-31 they pulled.

I also wonder what could have been acquired by dangling Dilly either
a. Right now before the season starts
or

b. If Dilly would have had a decent or ever great start, wonder what teams would have offered?
Of course if he had a great start, would have just kept. Or traded for an equally good wing.

Regardless, sure as would have been better then 2030-31 imo!

[z0sa]

Status quo and largely rolling out the same crummy team feels crummy, that's for sure. There are some differences though, that indicate we will clearly be better even with status quo. Once Wemby found his footing and moved to center, we became a different team. We could basically play any ragtag group (OK maybe Mamu is better than that) with Wemby and all of the sudden we were beating playoff teams down the stretch of the season and the blowouts losses were few and far between. These were teams that were playing for playoff position, not tanking, either.

I probably am a little less oriented towards the team is light years from being a playoff team as most tend to think. I don't see us as a 22-win team at the end of last season. That same team, maybe it wins 30 games, maybe even more.

All we need is players that are not shooting below 30% from 3 and playing defense, and we probably are capable of shooting right to being a .500 team. Give us 35% 3 PT shooting with defense, we are possible a top 4-6 team in the West.

I see us as being a middling playoff team at the max capacity for potential of this roster. Say Castle and Sochan learn to shoot, Tre is the backup at 1 and Branham the backup 2, with both being at the top of their games off the bench. Not good enough to win it all, competing for the playin and maybe even playoffs, but too good to tank without Wemby being injured. It seems like we're banking on 2025 draftees+expending some of these picks afterwards at some point (probably 2025 draft combined with 2025 trade deadline or 2026 off-season) to get over the top. It's not a terrible plan, but it feels like we're the next season and possibly 2 will be salary floor teams which grow less than expected and have less expectations in general, which IMHO is bad for development and for Wemby's loyalty/patience to the team. I'm speaking like the scarred Kawhi fan I once was of course on the Wemby stuff.

[CitizenDwayne]

You know, I watch highlights and have to remind myself, these are highlights. I don't spend much time watching lowlights, but to act like Dilly had none, well that is the downside or unknown that is the crux of why we did not keep him.

Anyone looks awesome, in their highlights. That is why they are called highlights.

I watched every game UK played this season, a handful in person.

Reed is overrated as a passer and defender imo. I was worried the Spurs might trade up to get him. But Rob had all the signs of a bench microwave and nah no thx, we'd prefer a 2031 pick

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently

[ducks]

Link? I wasn't allowed to post during the draft and I didn't post after the draft.

Homeboy seeing ghosts

Pussy whipped ?

[jeebus]

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently

Wait...you seriously believe them trading the 8th pick is them doubling down on last season's team?

[TekXX]

The Spurs don’t have a history of being eager to provide continued access to people who are highly critical of the front office. LJ Ellis is not just some random guy with an Internet forum. The flip side of the insightful (free) content that comes as a result of his access is a certain amount of spin.

This makes more sense. Disgruntled posters would mean more traffic so sucking up to Pop's front office seems accurate.

[Pauleta14]

-I'm still trying to figure out the Salaun situation. The ankle injury sounded like a smokescreen but it looks like Salaun actually did work out with the Hornets ( https://x.com/hornetsreddit/status/1806335439365693832 ). I thought the Hornets workout was one that he supposedly missed due to his Spurs ankle injury. I gotta leave so someone do this homework for me. Thanks, bye.

He looked extatic when he got picked as opposed to Dilly who's reaction was more "controled".

Maybe he was neve a target but just some reverse psychology from PATFO/Wemby to help him get picked as early as possible

[SOMA Spur]

After following these prospects for the past year, I had my favorites, but the real mystery was who in fact did the Spurs like? Castle made sense and he'll be a stud. At 8 I was cool with anyone. Picking Dilly was a shock and for about 60 seconds I was proud of PATFO for not overthinking things and picking an exciting fan favorite that might work with Castle. But of course Dilly was never in the cards, I had crossed him off my list for a while now in favor of Carter (But they didn't really love him either, ugh).

Turns out they didn't love anyone left on the board, so they punted. Where's the ing fun in that! What a let down, and what a waste of time for me researching these mid lottery prospects. But I'll reserve my meltdown until after the draft is officially over, as well as the next couple of days with Graham's trade-able contract, etc. A lot could happen in the next day, or nothing at all, which is what I expect.

Couple thoughts as I wait for the second round to start:

Was Saluan their actual target at 8? If so, that Insta post by Tony with Tidjane in the building looks awfully dumb. I just thought that was a smoke screen my his frenchman buddy, to boost his stock. But maybe not, and it turned out to be a blunder as Charlotte hopped us to snag him at 6. IDK.

Also the Lakers snagging Knecht is disgusting. All my Laker fan neighbors are thrilled. One more guy I would have loved in the Silver and Black.

[z0sa]

I watched every game UK played this season, a handful in person.

Reed is overrated as a passer and defender imo. I was worried the Spurs might trade up to get him. But Rob had all the signs of a bench microwave and nah no thx, we'd prefer a 2031 pick

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently

It should be assembling picks for a major trade. If it's not, who TF knows what they are thinking tbh because I'm with you on not wanting to watch this same team miss Wemby for oops, lobs and just in general all next season. Especially if Castle doesn't even get much playing time with Wemby because suddenly Tre's starting spot is guaranteed or we're tanking or whatever.

[Excessive Egotist]

Tiny footnote to Dillingham deal: I'd like to see Spurs take on Josh Minott in the deal. Doesn't impact San Antonio's books, but it saves Minnesota a bunch of tax.

[SpurSpike]

I was happy with the Castle pick but not surprised. When we drafted Dilly though I was pretty excited because I knew he was kind of a long shot but his style of play is so fun to watch. I cannot express how disappointed I was when I heard he was traded and then I looked up what it was for and got even more pissed. It really did ruin the draft for me... Hope Castle's play this season can make me forget about this gigantic fumble.

[Excessive Egotist]

Tiny footnote to Dillingham deal: I'd like to see Spurs take on Josh Minott in the deal. Doesn't impact San Antonio's books, but it saves Minnesota a bunch of tax.

And/or Leonard Miller. I just expect Minnesota would be more inclined to keep Miller.

[Excessive Egotist]

Eye of the beholder draft. I was unhappy with the Dillingham pick and delighted to learn of the trade and even happier for the return.

[T Park]

I was happy with the Castle pick but not surprised. When we drafted Dilly though I was pretty excited because I knew he was kind of a long shot but his style of play is so fun to watch. I cannot express how disappointed I was when I heard he was traded and then I looked up what it was for and got even more pissed. It really did ruin the draft for me... Hope Castle's play this season can make me forget about this gigantic fumble.

lol

yeah I hope the better player playing well makes me forget about trading the lesser player!

[Ice009]

lol

yeah I hope the better player playing well makes me forget about trading the lesser player!

lol, logic is out the window.

[Bruno]

To me, there are two different aspect when evaluating a trade: is the trade fair and is it good ?

The fair bit is about receiving equal value. When you consider everything, I think it's a quite fair trade. Wolves clearly didn't overpay to get #8 but Spurs get something good in return.

The good part is about helping the team in its goal. As a standalone this trade is really bad. It accomplishes the exact opposite of what Spurs should do. They should speed up the rebuilding process with Wembanyama's greatness and this trade slows it down. But there is a but. This trade give Spurs a very nice trade asset that might allow them to speed up even more the rebuilding process than the draft pick would have done.

At the end, it's all about what Spurs will do with that 2031 unprotected first round pick.

[DPG21920]

To me, there are two different aspect when evaluating a trade: is the trade fair and is it good ?

The fair bit is about receiving equal value. When you consider everything, I think it's a quite fair trade. Wolves clearly didn't overpay to get #8 but Spurs get something good in return.

The good part is about helping the team in its goal. As a standalone this trade is really bad. It accomplishes the exact opposite of what Spurs should do. They should speed up the rebuilding process with Wembanyama's greatness and this trade slows it down. But there is a but. This trade give Spurs a very nice trade asset that might allow them to speed up even more the rebuilding process than the draft pick would have done.

At the end, it's all about what Spurs will do with that 2031 unprotected first round pick.

Agree. It’s nuanced. You can evaluate any singular part and that’s fair, but you cannot judge it as a whole until you see the bigger picture and what they do with it. Theres so much nuance and it’s just really hard to stop and parse through all of it.


But a few facts:

Fact of the matter is Spurs need talent clearly and they need shooting and defense and they had 2 lottery picks and they didnt address a lot of that with them.

It COMPLETELY fair to question what Spurs did here and the onus is on them to show they have a plan and to improve the team.

Because only relying basically on internal improvement is a mistake and this is from someone who thinks A LOT of what will happen is from internal improvement and is completely fine with the FO being patient and building smartly.

But that doesnt mean its not fair to have some questions about trading the 8th pick for way future firsts vs using pick 8 to improve the team for sure (either adding a player or trading it for a player or trading back and getting a pick still in this draft with some extra value thrown in)

The trade can work out awesome, but you also have to look at the other side and its fair to have some concerns/questions as long as you are also reasonable about taking a bigger picture view too.

And theres a nuance to this conversation too. It’s not just Sa did bad/good or hated this draft/loved it etc…

Theres so many moving parts. Maybe SA loved Salaun and when he was gone that’s why they traded out because they have a plan at point guard (for better or worse) and dont want small non defensive point guard archetypes?

Maybe they loved Carter, but didn’t want two guards with questionable shooting and once Castle was assured, they had the guy they valued most and didn’t want to add too many non shooters etc…

They may have done this deal because they know theres a chance to trade for someone in a year or two that they already have targeted and only said they will trade 8 or whatever IF they get unprotected picks

If MIN offered protections then SA maybe keeps Dilly or whomever.

Theres so much to it is the point and it’s not linear.

But Spurs need to improve and have a lot of guys who should be replaced or at a minimum forced to compete for staying on this team. Right now, SA didnt do anything but free agency and trades should shed some light on the plan and make it make more sense.

If they have a FA/Trade lined up for a reasonably priced shooting point guard then it makes way more sense etc…just have to see.

But for me personally I am pretty surprised at the deal and I am a little less confident in the FO than I was before the draft. Not mad or calling for heads; but Im anxious more than before because they have to execute and it’s a big risk trading pick 8 in the fashion they did.

1 100% agree with Chinook though that if SA turns around only to use 3-4 firsts for a terrible defensive small point guard like Trae or Garland I will not like it at all. I mean, why if you are ok with terrible defensive high upside shooting point guards would you not just keep Dilly as a much lower risk lower cost similar archetype then?

[wildbill2u]

I think it is easier to teach a smart quick undersized player to defend that it is to teach a large guy to shoot 3s. I think this may just be a ploy by the Spurs to avoid adding two lottery pick payrolls to the roster. Just a thought.

On the other hand this may be a CIA Pop plan to have some picks available to deal with acquiring Bronny James from the Lakers in 2030 or 2031.

[spurs10]

Well as far as the trade, I hope we were just collecting assets for a trade for a veteran. It's hard to believe they won't be going all out to win some games with Wemby playing so well. I don't think the draft was strong enough for the Spurs to go all in on it, especially with a defensive liability.

I've been more fixated on Castle who does seems to be the improvement on defense we need. I don't think his job at UConn was being a spot up 3 pt shooter, but read he was the top scorer in the Final Four for them nonetheless. Get him in the gym and start working on that. That being said I can't see him on the floor with Tre and Sochan, so let's see what FAs or trades they are looking at.

It's always the big picture, and that isn't clear until we see who they are going after. We now have the money to do some bidding.

[Eaglenole2002]

I’m sure this has been mentioned a bunch times on this site, but I’d love to know how that Castle-Carter workout truly went.

[Mr. Peabody]

I think it is easier to teach a smart quick undersized player to defend that it is to teach a large guy to shoot 3s. I think this may just be a ploy by the Spurs to avoid adding two lottery pick payrolls to the roster. Just a thought.

On the other hand this may be a CIA Pop plan to have some picks available to deal with acquiring Bronny James from the Lakers in 2030 or 2031.

His size limits how effective of a defender he can be. Look at the All-Defense teams. There is no one close to Dilly’s size on either team.

[Uriel]

Few more thoughts:

-Yeah, pointing to the Dilly trade as proof that the Spurs are tanking doesn't make sense. The easiest/best way to tank is to rely on rookies.

-The Spurs got, what, like 70% of the value for the No. 8 pick that the Celtics gave up to acquire Jrue Holiday. That's pretty damn impressive if you think about it from that point of view. It looks underwhelming if you compare it to the Bridges trade but the Spurs basically got a package that you'd expect to get for trading a really good starter. , they got more for Dilly than they got for Derrick White.

-I really don't care about the 2031 aspect. As I wrote, I think it's more of a positive than anything. Minnesota's current core will mostly be aged out, they don't have much draft capital to build back up and their ownership situation will probably still be in litigation. When the Spurs go star-hunting, it'll be an attractive piece. When a team trades a star for 3/4/5 unprotected first round picks, the years those picks will convey typically isn't a main topic of conversation. Getting picks from various sources (Spurs, Hawks, Timberwolves, for example) would be more attractive than just getting picks from one source -- especially if that source has Wembanyama.

-I'm still trying to figure out the Salaun situation. The ankle injury sounded like a smokescreen but it looks like Salaun actually did work out with the Hornets ( https://x.com/hornetsreddit/status/1806335439365693832 ). I thought the Hornets workout was one that he supposedly missed due to his Spurs ankle injury. I gotta leave so someone do this homework for me. Thanks, bye.

What about the Sheppard vs Castle debate? Can you confirm that the Spurs would’ve picked Sheppard if both had been on the board, as you reported in your final big board?

[Spurs Homer]

Maybe I was attached because I called Dilly at 8 as the best possible scenario for us. It's of course, certainly possible FO and I know others here didn't agree with that. I do believe, as we stand right now with no 2024 NBA draftees having played a minute of action, that Dillingham was our best pick at 8 and could have aided us in rebuilding - at least as far as winning games. We could then have traded him for better than unprotected firsts, or at least a similar haul. The main difference being our win/loss tallies and our financials. Then again, if Dilly ends up being impossible to play due to his defensive struggles, perhaps we win the evening after all. Or, the 30/31 picks are key in a trade. It's not impossible, but it's not like picking Dillingham could have been construed as a huge mistake from anything other than the financial side if he didn't pan out. Hence why I see this as cost cutting at face.

you are not the only one - i also had dilly as the best pick/best fit next to wemby -

and it makes zero sense to draft him for a rival who almost went to the finals and did not even get the 24 or 27th or whichever pick minnesota had...

and 7-8 years before you receive anything?

these clowns

[Ice009]

you are not the only one - i also had dilly as the best pick/best fit next to wemby -

and it makes zero sense to draft him for a rival who almost went to the finals and did not even get the 24 or 27th or whichever pick minnesota had...

and 7-8 years before you receive anything?

these clowns

Yeah, I thought the Spurs should have also pushed for Minnesota's pick in this draft, but was there anyone they liked enough to draft at 27 or whatever pick Minnesota had?

[poopbox]

Should have drafted Carter and made a commitment to defense as far as my preference, yet oddly Brian did not consult me on that.

Overall, I think this is not really about Dillingham specifically but another moment to ponder what the FO is doing. Yes they think long-term. I don't think they should go all in on any of the typical s. Yet there is a Grand Canyon-sized middle ground on how to improve the team. They say they want to win but sounds like a weird complicated situation like last year, like when Wemby keeps playing to win while Pop sits Sochan and Vassel.

Anyway, the 8 pick fell to us perfectly and there were ready role players ready to go. But they blinked.

On one hand yes it can be seen as a smart move looking long-term, but it's just more pressure or expectations, so to speak, for them actually to make some sort of move at some point.

The trading the pick is not very much about Dillingham the player. I liked him and wanted him, because it should help keep the utter dumpster fire juice that Branhim and Wessley are off the court. The problem with trading the pick is that once you identify that you have a franchise player, and Victor definitely is, you start trying to put talent around him. The Spurs had an opportunity to add some talent around Victor with the 8th pick and they decided instead to just throw that pick in a box they can't open for 6 and 7 years, and thus the only way it ever has any value in the short term is if they can trade it to someone else. It's like the Spurs are doing 2 extra steps to add talent to a young roster...when they could have just done one step and drafted somebody with the pick.

And where are people getting this "they think long term" from? What move are we benefitting from right now that they made in 2018? 2019? 2017? 2020? I find it weird people are convincing themselves that the Spurs have a long term plan where you can't look at anything they have done in the past 6 years that was to the benefit of the team, other than tanking and drafting Victor, which had way more to do with luck than any actual skill.