So still think the towers were brought down without bombs?

[Sportcamper]

I think the towers were brought down by giant airplanes filled with jet fuel crashing into them...As the heat intensified the interior or the towers melted...Because the towers were not made with traditional frames the structure weakened & collapsed....

I know my theory is controversial...Particularly the part about jet airplanes flying into the building...

[xrayzebra]

I think the towers were brought down by giant airplanes filled with jet fuel crashing into them...As the heat intensified the interior or the towers melted...Because the towers were not made with traditional frames the structure weakened & collapsed....

I know my theory is controversial...Particularly the part about jet airplanes flying into the building...

Are you really sure it wasn't some kinda trick photography.
You know how those Hollywood types are. I mean they make floods, ice storms and all that kinda stuff.

[Phenomanul]

Aluminun oxides aren't gonna cause steel beams to fail Chuck. There may have been some present from the planes, but it doesn't explain how thick steel girders appear to be cut in a angle caused by thermite in a controlled demolition.

Again you are assuming the pictures weren't taken after some beams were purposely cut for rescue egress.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the towers were brought down by giant airplanes filled with jet fuel crashing into them...As the heat intensified the interior or the towers melted...Because the towers were not made with traditional frames the structure weakened & collapsed....

I know my theory is controversial...Particularly the part about jet airplanes flying into the building...

Smallminded simpleton.

[thispego]

Particularly the part about jet airplanes flying into the building...

whos debating that?

[johnsmith]

I like the part when Dan just skips over questions that don't support his theory.

[xrayzebra]

I like the part when Dan just skips over questions that don't support his theory.

Don't pick on dan. The seriousness of his charges
demands an investigation. And he has that expert
"Rosie" on his team. And she is on national TV with
the other expert, Babs Walters. So his charges should
be investigated. Especially now that the dimm-o-craps
are in charge. They need more to do.

[Nbadan]

Again you are assuming the pictures weren't taken after some beams were purposely cut for rescue egress.

Oh give me a break!

[Nbadan]

Exhibit B:

Here is one of the pics we are talking about, for those of you who haven't seen it:



Notice the beam directly behind the rescurer is cut at an angle. seemingly, some contend, by what is known by demolition experts as a thermite charge used to bring the building down at a known angle.

[Nbadan]

I like the part when Dan just skips over questions that don't support his theory.

Only because the questions aren't really pertinent to the discussion, we've already acknowledged that there was fire on the 10th floor and above WTC7, but for the buildings to fail like they did, the fire had to be much lower, at least according to the initial FEMA report, which none of the pics I have seen from anybody show.

Why haven't any of the sheeple acknowledged that discrepency johnny?

[Phenomanul]

Oh give me a break!

Ummmm in case you weren't aware.... beams in the debris field were in fact cut in order to reach survivors... this was done the week of the attack even while fires were still ravaging under the rubble piles.

For someone who is supposedly seeking the truth on the matter you certainly seem like someone who has already made up their mind. Your response was rather dismissive. We've already covered this aspect of the 'controversy' with mouse.

edit: ah yes, that's the picture...

[Nbadan]

Ummmm in case you weren't aware.... beams in the debris field were in fact cut in order to reach survivors... this was done the week of the attack even while fires were still ravaging under the rubble piles.

For someone who is supposedly seeking the truth on the matter you certainly seem like someone who has already made up their mind. Your response was rather dismissive. We've already covered this aspect of the 'controversy' with mouse.

Look, I'm just saying that it would have taken days, if not weeks to get the needed mechinery to lift that type of weight, and the pic just do not support that, those firemen look like first-responders, and besides if they had already cleared that area there would be much less debris around the beam.

[ChumpDumper]

Think of it this way Chumper. Giuliani's emergency command and control center was in building WTC7. Reinforced concrete blast columns, reinforced blast-proof glass and probably a lot of secret modifications we don't even know about. Any plotters could have conceivable thought that WTC7 could be brought down after Towers 1 and 2, to use as a control center for the attacks and then demolish and purge any evidence of evil-doing.

So now you are basing your theory on things you "don't even know about"?

Why would anyone need to use the building next door as a control center when all they had to do was hijack planes in Boston, Washington and Newark? wouldn't it have been easier to use one of the main towers as a control center instead of hoping the top of the north tower would make it across the street (now THAT'S a controlled demolition) and take out enormous chunks of your secret hidey hole AND start multiple fires AND cut off the water supply AND start the diesel pumps AND put squibs in the very top corner of the building when all that was needed was to weaken the lower floors and let the rest of the building collapse into it.

That's how you are telling me to think about it.

[Nbadan]

Why would anyone need to use the building next door as a control center when all they had to do was hijack planes in Boston, Washington and Newark? wouldn't it have been easier to use one of the main towers as a control center instead of hoping the top of the north tower would make it across the street (now THAT'S a controlled demolition) and take out enormous chunks of your secret hidey hole AND start multiple fires AND cut off the water supply AND start the diesel pumps AND put squibs in the very top corner of the building when all that was needed was to weaken the lower floors and let the rest of the building collapse into it.

Excellent question. As Cheney would would say, there are known known and known unknowns, what get's you aren't the known unknown but the unknown knowns. I don't know why, yet, but for some reason WTC7 was going to come down either way that day.

[Phenomanul]

Look, I'm just saying that it would have taken days, if not weeks to get the needed mechinery to lift that type of weight, and the pic just do not support that, those firemen look like first-responders, and besides if they had already cleared that area there would be much less debris around the beam.

First off, neither you or myself can ascertain the exact context of this picture. Could be in the very heart of the pile of WTC1, at the edges or the fringe of the debris field. Only the guy/gal who took the picture can say where he/she was. The problem is that 'conspiracists' are running around with this picture and making all sorts of claims without that context. Hence, their conjectures on the matter from this picture alone have little value without said contextual details (time, what was going on?, exactly what are we seeing?, etc...).

But again someone who has already made up their mind on the matter won't let such a simple concept stop them from thinking the worst.

[ChumpDumper]

it's the internal columns that fall first Chump, that's why in the videos the top penthouse appears to be collapsing into the rest of the building. Had the outer support failed first the collapse would not have been as catastrophic.

No internal columns failed. On the south side of the building under the penthouse first. Why are you pretending it was a pefectly symmetrical collapse when the east penthouse falls in first, then the west penthouse, then the rest of the building?

[FromWayDowntown]

Look, I'm just saying that it would have taken days, if not weeks to get the needed mechinery to lift that type of weight, and the pic just do not support that, those firemen look like first-responders, and besides if they had already cleared that area there would be much less debris around the beam.

So, wait -- you're not even sure when the photograph that is your Exhibit B was taken? You're guessing that the men depicted in the photograph are first-responders, but don't really know?

That's some scientific proof!!

[ChumpDumper]

Aluminun oxides aren't gonna cause steel beams to fail Chuck.

Of course they aren't. My explanation of the events doesn't require steel cutting material being planted directly in the impact zone before the crash and instructing arab agents (who have decided to kill themselves to help you) exactly where to hit the building to ignite it with the thermite with the jet fuel.

There may have been some present from the planes,

You're saying there MAY have been some aluminum in commercial airliners? What exactly do you think they are made of?

but it doesn't explain how thick steel girders appear to be cut in a angle caused by thermite in a controlled demolition.

Oh yeah, the infamous out of context girder. No girders were cut during the recovery or cleanup efforts, were they? Not one. Do you even realize what you have to ignore to believe your stories?

[ChumpDumper]

Only because the questions aren't really pertinent to the discussion, we've already acknowledged that there was fire on the 10th floor and above WTC7, but for the buildings to fail like they did, the fire had to be much lower, at least according to the initial FEMA report, which none of the pics I have seen from anybody show.

Why haven't any of the sheeple acknowledged that discrepency johnny?

Why haven't you acknowledged that fires reached the north side of the building?

[FromWayDowntown]

Why haven't you acknowledged that fires reached the north side of the building?

Come on, Chump. That was relevant when there wasn't any photographic proof in this thread to dispute the absolute assertion that the fire never reached the north face; but once the unassailable photographic proof was adduced, there was no longer any real relevance to dan's assertion.

Think of it as a mental exercise that dan authored.

[Nbadan]

But again someone who has already made up their mind on the matter won't let such a simple concept stop them from thinking the worst.

Maybe the real issue is you haven't convinced me otherwise. Whatever the context of the photo, it's highly unlikely that rescuers would set off thermite charges in an area where they believe there to be victims.

[Nbadan]

No internal columns failed. On the south side of the building under the penthouse first. Why are you pretending it was a pefectly symmetrical collapse when the east penthouse falls in first, then the west penthouse, then the rest of the building?

Because under that scenario the building was more likely to collapse like the Murrah building. In order for those buildings to fall in the manner they did, something had to compromise the load-bearing support columns on the lower foors, especially floors 5th and 6th, that's where the crazy scenario with the diesel fuel comes into the discussion.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe the real issue is you haven't convinced me otherwise. Whatever the context of the photo, it's highly unlikely that rescuers would set off thermite charges in an area where they believe there to be victims.

Right.

Because the rescuers didn't use thermite.

[Nbadan]

Right.

Because the rescuers didn't use thermite.

Well, technically, at that point they were no longer rescuers.

[ChumpDumper]

Because under that scenario the building was more likely to collapse like the Murrah building.

Why do you keep bringing up a building that is only one seventh the height of 7WTC and has a completely different construction? There is no way to compare the two whatsoever.

In order for those buildings to fall in the manner they did, something had to compromise the load-bearing support columns on the lower foors, especially floors 5th and 6th, that's where the crazy scenario with the diesel fuel comes into the discussion.

Two mechanical penthouses falling on top of columns hundreds of feet below that had already been weakened by other falling debris, fire and transformer explosions -- yeah, that's a crazy scenario alright.

What was your scenario again?