Dirk or David Robinson?

[Proxy]

Proxy needs to get Dirk's balls out of his throat. ing mavs fan pretending to be Spurs fan.

good job.Why don't you try and debate my arguments with logic instead of typing cowardly insults from behind your keyboard, . So far, NO ONE has debunked my statement that Dirk is far more clutch than Rob ever was.

[4lifecowboy]

good job.Why don't you try and debate my arguments with logic instead of typing cowardly insults from behind your keyboard, . So far, NO ONE has debunked my statement that Dirk is far more clutch than Rob ever was.

You are changing the original question? The question is who would you rank higher as a player. If clutch (or your definition of it) was the criteria Ginobili out ranks Dirk as a player. So what Dirk had a streak (this year, keeping in mind he failed so many times before this year) that carried him thru the finals. If you think he did it by himself, you evidently didn't watch the series, Terry's performance was just as vital to their success as Dirk's. You will never convince me that a 7ft perimeter player should get as many free throws as he does, in short he hasn't did anything to wow me, his stats are padded. Robinson faced double and triple teams his entire career, without ever having a real supporting cast. I guarentee 99% of GM wouldnt think twice about picking Robinson over Dirk in any scenerio, well short of a game of around the world from outside the arc.

[Proxy]

You are changing the original question? The question is who would you rank higher as a player. If clutch (or your definition of it) was the criteria Ginobili out ranks Dirk as a player. So what Dirk had a streak (this year, keeping in mind he failed so many times before this year) that carried him thru the finals. If you think he did it by himself, you evidently didn't watch the series, Terry's performance was just as vital to their success as Dirk's. You will never convince me that a 7ft perimeter player should get as many free throws as he does, in short he hasn't did anything to wow me, his stats are padded. Robinson faced double and triple teams his entire career, without ever having a real supporting cast. I guarentee 99% of GM wouldnt think twice about picking Robinson over Dirk in any scenerio, well short of a game of around the world from outside the arc.

I'm not changing the question... ? Are you saying that being clutch has nothing to do with a player's ranking?

(Nice pettifog with Manu btw)

No one ever does it by themselves, though, Terry was hugely absent outside G6. Marion was the Mavs second best player against MIA, playing good defense on LBJ.

Saying his stats are padded and that he doesn't deserve the free throws is homer.

Robinson faced double and triple teams. So does Dirk.

Given that Dirk led his team to a ring, and Robinson didn't, I don't think 99% GMs would pick against a ring. Nice try though.

[ambchang]

pfft. I'd be willing to prove to you that I'm a legit Spurs fan. I was a Chicago fan when I was younger, and became a Spurs fan due to the Admiral. I started becoming a more serious fan when I went to my first game in 98, CHI at SA at the alamo dome... it was MJ's last game as a Bull in SA. Two rings later, SA became a religion for me when Manu came on to the scene. Been die hard since then.

With that being said, the difference from you and me, is that I'm not a homer. I remember watching the Spurs pre-TD, and always being disappointed in the Admiral for not having the killer instinct and clutch performances that I saw in MJ.

Don't give me the team bull either. You're going to tell me that the 95 team wasn't good enough? Rodman, Elliott, and Avery... c'mon. Who did Dirk have this year that wasn't equivalent to that? old Kidd, Marion, and Chandler?

You can be a Spurs fan, but it's plain dumb to act like every Spurs player is the GOAT at their position. Dirk doesn't play defense. He would get raped one-on-one... sure, but this is a team game, and we base HOF players on their achievements.

To say their offenses are comparable is moronic. Throw stats out the window, Dirk did what it took to win, and he was the 4th quarter guy in nearly every single playoff game up to the end of the finals.

I love defense as much as the next silver and black guy, but at some point you have to recognize that Dirk is a freak offensive force. I mean, Dirk's injury in 03 was huge. Let's not forget 06 either. One of the best ever, and he erased his choke-job label by LEADING his team to a ring. Something that D-Rob was never able to do.

So you became a fan in 98 because of the Admiral? What? You like to follow players after they have a career threatening injury or what? And how would you know squat about the prime of the Admiral after you became a fan in 98?

A bulls fan, then a Spurs fan after Duncan joined, I would call this a definition of a bandwaggoner. Good to see you hopping on the Mavs bandwagon right now, you can be a Heat fan next year.

And the 95 was good enough? Elliott, as much as I love him, choked two crucial FTs in Game 1, Rodman chucked 3 three pointers in game 2 (all in the first half if I remember) for now reason, and refused to guard Horry because he was too busy stat padding his rebounds, and Avery Johnson couldn't hit an outside shot in his life.

Do you mean to tell me an insane Rodman, Elliott and Johnson are as good as Kidd, Chandler, Marion, and Terry?

I am still trying to wrap my head around how you would know so much about Robinson after he got his back and knees destroyed in 96.

[ambchang]

you mean all the bench players?

and the stepping up at vital times.... when did Dirk need a release of burden this playoffs? He made the shots himself in the 4th quarter.

Did you watch Game 6? I mean, Dirk was phenomenal throughout the playoffs, and I have to admit that it was something Robinson never did in the playoffs, but so what? It's so much easier to nail shots when you know you can count on your teammates to nail down open shots, than it is to have the opposition drapped all over you throughout the series because you know the PG cannot nail wide open jump shots, and the PF wouldn't even take a shot unless they are ill-advised three pointers. To top it off, you have a SG named Vinny Del Negro, who can't even get reasonable minutes in the early 90's Kings and late 90's Bucks, which are some of the worst teams in the history of the league).

The only reasonable offensive relief Robinson had was Sean Elliott, and while Elliott was one of my favourite players, we are not talking about Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen, Joe Dumars, James Worthy, Kevin Mchale, or even Manu Ginobili sort of talent here.

[ambchang]

I'm not changing the question... ? Are you saying that being clutch has nothing to do with a player's ranking?

(Nice pettifog with Manu btw)

I am challenging how Dirk Nowitzki would go from being the poster boy of choke to the definition of clutch in one playoffs. It shows an absolute lack of understanding of the game, and the history of the game to make that assertion. Robinson had 13/17 in his last game in the Finals, does that make him clutch?

No one ever does it by themselves, though, Terry was hugely absent outside G6. Marion was the Mavs second best player against MIA, playing good defense on LBJ.

Terry scored 12, 16, 15, 17, 21, and 27 points in the 6 games vs. the Heat. You know how many players Robinson had in his prime who could do that off the bench? Zero. In fact, he had ONE player who could do that throughout his prime, and that was his absolute best player he played with, Sean Elliott. So a player would could be noted as "hugely absent", a player who plays off the bench for Dirk is comparable in output to Robinson's best teammate. I guess you answered your own question as to why the 11 Mavs had more playoff success than any of the Robinson Spurs.

Oh, why don't you also look up how many 3's the Mavs nailed in their victories, and how 3's Robinson Spurs nailed in theirs, then ask yourself this. Is it easier for an inside player to score when you have the room to operate because your teammates are nailing open shots when the opposition doubles/triples you, or is to easier to score when the opposition knows your teammates will clank wide open jumpers.

BTW, that "absent" Jason Terry scored 17.5 ppg on 47.8 FG%, 44.2 3pt% in the entire playoffs off the bench. The 2nd best Marion scored 11.9, grabbed 6.9 rebounds, and played great defense, while Jason Kidd, grabbed 9.3 ppg and dished out 7.3 assists with 4.5 rebounds.

The Spurs have their best 3 pt shooter (Person), shoot 29% on 3s, had a grand total of 3 games out of 6 vs. the Rockets were one player got double digits in points off the bench (Doc Rivers in games 2 and 4, and Terry mings in Game 5.

The Spurs 3 pt shooting in those games were 2/8, 4/18 (Robinson scored 32 on 10 of 18 shooting), 9/19 (A game where Robinson had a decent showing of 29 points on 10/15 shooting), 4/13, 2/7, 2/7. Robinson had two decent game in the entire series when his teammates were actually shooting the ball from outside. His teammates didn't even have to nail the shots, they just have to be a threat.

Saying his stats are padded and that he doesn't deserve the free throws is homer.

Robinson faced double and triple teams. So does Dirk.

I seem to recall watching the Heat single-teamming Dirk most of the time, and that is because he was on the perimeter facing up a lot. Can't blame the Heat though, I mean, are you going to double off Marion, Kidd, Barea or Terry? All of them can actually nail shots.

Given that Dirk led his team to a ring, and Robinson didn't, I don't think 99% GMs would pick against a ring. Nice try though.

You think? You also think 99% of GMs would pick Billups over John Stockton? You also think 99% of GMs would pick Dennis Johnson over Charles Barkley?

[Agloco]

Base Spurs greatness on winning

Glorify losing teams to devalue rival

The comparison was Dirk and Malone, and yes it comes with qualifiers just as the Spurs championships in 1999 and 2007 do.

Again, it is what it is

Who are you choosing first in a fantasy draft? Who are you building your team around?