Open scrimmage, October 18th, 7PM

[dabom]

She deserves to be the top poster. Definitely SAGirl is one of the more knowledgeable posters in ST! I can't say the same about you. I don't even recall you even posting!

Is this some ing joke?

This is the equivalent of a Deplorable endorsing you.

Let it be known. I always ignore your ty takes. This is probably the only 4th reply I have ever done.

[SAGirl]

BBRef has on/offs now: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...02/on-off/2016

They bear out that Lee was positive in most stats but negative slightly in ORtg. And he wasn't great defensively but helped on the boards. Those stats are sort of weird, though, as they account for time when Lee wasn't even on the team.

Again still in a tablet. Check out an article I posted written by a Mavs fan/blogger about the negative impact he had on everything, his presence on the court caused more TO, they shot 29% on 3s versus 40% when he was off the court and they took 8 3 pts shots led per 100 posessions. He crowded others and made life difficult for others.. It's in the church of Lee or whatever it's called.. He impacts things on the floor that are not difficult to spell out bc it's not just one thing. It's how his defender is allowed to roam and help on cutters for example and he can't punish them,etc. Help on drives, help on the other big, etc.... and again a negative per NBA.com/stats

[SAGirl]

Damn..not sure if SAgirl just recenty started watching basketball..its ok girl, you're good people but you need to dig deeper into how offenses work.

Lee just like Deandre or other good roll guys provide spacing and weakside offense...the deandre is not valuable offensively in a system that relies heavily on PnRs i nothing but short pf comical

[apalisoc_9]

The your a troll argument.



The fact that you think a good rollman doesnt offer spacing

[SAGirl]

Bertans is pretty impressive. Offensively, one area that he needs improvement on is attacking the rim after a close out. In the scrimmage he attacked the rim hoping to make a play when there was nothing there. I don't think he's too familiar with that situation and other team mates aren't anticipating what he's going to do.

I like his length too. He seems long enough to at least be a bit of a bother at PF. Anderson by contrast is a bit small to be at PF.

Oh... one other comment. I like that Pau is taking those 3 point shots. I hope to see Aldridge do the same.

It makes everyone in the starting 5 capable of hitting the 3. Spurs will need that when they are desperate.

He has no inside game at all. I think over 70% of his shots in Europe were 3 pts shots. I posted that stat in the church of Bertans and he wasn't very efficient inside. One of the things he has said is that he needs to work on his inside game more and post ups. I have seen him pass very well if he gets run off the 3 though but definitely his game is based on the jumpshot. When he's as good of a shooter as he is, that's a great start, but definitely needs some kind of hook shot or floater for when he's run off the line like Matt used to have and was good at.

[SAGirl]

The your a troll argument.



The fact that you think a good rollman doesnt offer spacing

Really I don't concern myself with you Apo you know that. The chat goes right above your head.

[GSH]

Lee has been a PF his whole career. That's the position he defends best.

I don't want to just be argumentative, but a couple of Lee's best seasons were as a straight-up C. He was even listed as a C by the Knicks those last couple of seasons in NY. And in his first couple of seasons with Golden State, he spent most of his minutes as the only player on the court that could possibly be considered a center.

David West had spent a MUCH bigger percentage of his career as a PF than Lee, and he wound up getting stuck in the middle far too much when he came to SA. I think that's why I had such a negative knee-jerk reaction when I read that SA had signed Lee, because I could just see him getting put into a C role the same way as West, and it being just as big of a disaster. I really don't hate Lee as a player, I just him being a fit for a team coached by Pop. I was the same way when Richard Jefferson came here. Decent player - not a great fit.

Right now, Lee is probably the second most skilled C on the roster, behind Gasol. And that means we're likely to see Pop playing him in that role. And I'm afraid he's going to look a lot like West did, defensively. Offensively, I really think Lee will be better than West, even though he gets his points in a different way. Someone here, I forget who, mentioned that it's more important for the bench to be good at putting up points, and there's some truth to that. But against teams that have decent bigs on the bench (who are legitimately big) Lee is probably going to take a beating. Both on the floor, and from fans.

[dabom]

Ceps and sag in agreement.

[dabom]

Now I've seen it all folks.

[SAGirl]

It's okay. You just don't get it.

I never compared players, I was simply stating the way Spurs implemented the PNR offense with having a diver and a big in the dunker spot. ( Having two bigs who can't shoot in the game together).

You're complaining about how Lee can't spread the floor with shooting and how he can't create double teams in one on one situations -- which is stupid, IMO. No offense, because he's not going to be utilized as such.

Spurs aren't going to feature him in one on one situations. They're also not going to feature him as a stand there guy. Pop has a brain, he's going to implement Lee as a PNR guy only -- like he did Duncan and Splitter. Same goes for Dedmon. They aren't one on one players, and they're not shooters so they're not going to just stand there.

Bottom Line!!

I get what you are saying, and I am saying they are neither talented, nor good enough together to make that work, and they affect others around him too. Both bigs basically do the same, and when his defender helps off of one of them on someone else they can't punish that, bc they won't space the floor stepping outside the paint for a pass, etc. I see your point and I am saying that is simplistic. It will be pretty evident soon enough, but personally I have seen enough to know that it won't work long term and changes will be needed.

Here is Lee in GSW.. benched, then traded.

On defense, the problems were the same as they've always been. Weak contests at the rim, late and non-instinctive rotations and a chronic case of slow feet. But it was on offense where the cracks really began to show. David Lee's mid-range shot, which he perfected just before coming over from the New York Knicks, went from elite...to good...to dreadful in six years. At one time, Lee shot a spectacular 0.448% from beyond 16-feet (for comparison, LaMarcus Aldridge has a career best of 0.442%).


In the last two years, that 16-foot shot accuracy fell to 0.357% in 2013-2014, and then a brutal 0.303% this year. Somehow, his percentages from 3-10 feet crashed even harder, all the way to a nauseating 0.314%. Tony Allen just finished up a FIRST TEAM DEFENSE season shooting 0.261% and 0.333% from those two zones, respectively.
As David Lee lost the ability to make a jump shot, he attempted a much greater share of his field goals from the restricted area. This sounds nice in theory, as any 6'10" professional basketball player will shoot well from that range. However, his inability to leave the area cramped the Warriors offense by rule, forcing Kerr to play Lee with four perimeter players to maximize floor spacing. However, this meant Lee playing rim protector center, further compounding his defensive deficiencies.

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/201...state-warriors

Here is Lee in the Mavs:


http://www.hashtagbasketball.com/dal...n-court-impact

In the same vein of surprising impacts, Lee’s most highly complimented skill is his passing as a big man, but his presence increases turnovers, decreases assists, and depresses the Mavs spacing such that they shoot less three pointers and make a smaller percentage of them in dramatic fashion. With Lee on the floor, the Mavs shoot 8 less three pointers per 48 minutes and make only 26% of them, as opposed to the 40.3% they have made with Lee off the floor.

This last one is a podcast that has as a guest John Karalis of Locked on Celtics. The podcast comes to the conclusion it might have been a huge mistake to sign Lee after all.

http://news4sanantonio.com/sports/sp...a-huge-mistake

This is a lot more colloquial but the guy giving his opinion is a Celtics fan who observed Lee enough in the Celitcs to become fed up and tired with how he clogged the middle of the paint for othes without being able to do anything from there.

I have seen enough to confirm these and other reports to know he's not helping the Spurs enough for what good he's supposed to be bringing and I do think the team will be better with others. I will just leave it at that, bc these things will bear themselves out. Like I said I already said my piece which is based on personal observation and backed up by Lee's recent experiences in the league getting benched of teams and traded or not resigned. It might come down to him not being that good anymore but we shall see soon enough.

[bklynspursfan]

Again still in a tablet. Check out an article I posted written by a Mavs fan/blogger about the negative impact he had on everything, his presence on the court caused more TO, they shot 29% on 3s versus 40% when he was off the court and they took 8 3 pts shots led per 100 posessions. He crowded others and made life difficult for others.. It's in the church of Lee or whatever it's called.. He impacts things on the floor that are not difficult to spell out bc it's not just one thing. It's how his defender is allowed to roam and help on cutters for example and he can't punish them,etc. Help on drives, help on the other big, etc.... and again a negative per NBA.com/stats

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play.

Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. Being with the right teammates/coaching/system was something Bobo benefited from. Should the Spurs have assumed, he had a negative impact in Charlotte, and he's getting cut from the worst team, so let's just ignore him? No, cause Bobo is valuable and versatile, and with the right guys around him they believed he could have a positive impact (Plus, he's TP's boy)

To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/...mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings...nding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...e62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

[dabom]

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play. Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/...mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings...nding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...e62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

I was just going to point this out. Some people are just ing s tbh.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't want to just be argumentative, but a couple of Lee's best seasons were as a straight-up C. He was even listed as a C by the Knicks those last couple of seasons in NY. And in his first couple of seasons with Golden State, he spent most of his minutes as the only player on the court that could possibly be considered a center.

David West had spent a MUCH bigger percentage of his career as a PF than Lee, and he wound up getting stuck in the middle far too much when he came to SA. I think that's why I had such a negative knee-jerk reaction when I read that SA had signed Lee, because I could just see him getting put into a C role the same way as West, and it being just as big of a disaster. I really don't hate Lee as a player, I just him being a fit for a team coached by Pop. I was the same way when Richard Jefferson came here. Decent player - not a great fit.

Right now, Lee is probably the second most skilled C on the roster, behind Gasol. And that means we're likely to see Pop playing him in that role. And I'm afraid he's going to look a lot like West did, defensively. Offensively, I really think Lee will be better than West, even though he gets his points in a different way. Someone here, I forget who, mentioned that it's more important for the bench to be good at putting up points, and there's some truth to that. But against teams that have decent bigs on the bench (who are legitimately big) Lee is probably going to take a beating. Both on the floor, and from fans.

In his whole career, Lee played all but two seasons as a PF.

When he started his career with the Knicks, Eddy Curry was the starting Center for the first two years he was there. The reason he HAD to play C the next two years is because D'Antoni wanted to go small and implement the Suns fast pace style of play without a C and Jared Jeffries, who was drafted as a SF, played PF.


As for his time with the Warriors, he played PF his entire time as Biedrins, Ezeli, Bogut were the starting centers. I'm sure there were times Lee was the only big on the floor in times GS went small, just like Aldridge is sometimes or just like Diaw was sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're true centers.

True centers are the guys who are at their best when they defend other centers. As long as you have the size, there's no specific skill-set that needs to be met to play a position. It all comes down to matchups, which position you defend best, and how the players' best attributes match the strengths of the teammates.

Let me ask you this. If Spurs saw Lee as a C when they signed him (like you're implying), why would they stock up on third string center (Lee), without signing a back up PF? Why didn't they sign a back up PF then? And then invite ANOTHER C to camp without inviting a PF?

Don't bring up Jean-Charles, he's irrelevant. And Bertans/ Anderson aren't true PFs they are tweeners -- they don't count.

Plus, one of the Bertans/Anderson will be seeing most of the minutes at the SF spot. It's just hard to believe the Spurs came into the year under your perception, which is signing three centers, and not signing a PF in Free agency -- being content and heavily relying on Bertans to be the only back up PF on the Spurs roster. That scenario makes no sense. Common sense is clear that Spurs signed Lee as a PF.

[SAGirl]

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play.

Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. Being with the right teammates/coaching/system was something Bobo benefited from. Should the Spurs have assumed, he had a negative impact in Charlotte, and he's getting cut from the worst team, so let's just ignore him? No, cause Bobo is valuable and versatile, and with the right guys around him they believed he could have a positive impact (Plus, he's TP's boy)

To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/...mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings...nding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...e62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

We shall see. I already said my piece on Lee. He has been in good teams and with good coaches. Obviously context matters, but he wasn't rotting away on some tank team. He wasn't looking disgruntled like Pau in the Lakers or Diaw in the Bobcats. He's been in good/great teams with good coaches that have sought to maximixe his skills.

I think he has been most successful recently as a microball center, but I have not seen Pop place him at that spot and Pop won't want to sacrifice his defense for Lee (or anybody) if he can spare it.

Like I do for every Spur, so long as they guy is in the team and Pop relies on them I hope they play well and I root for them. I can be critical of a guy like anybody if he deserves it or if his game is not helping matters, but I am not the kind to be wishing guys get injured, or traded, or waived. It's not my shtick like its is for a lot here. I haven't liked this addition since the beginning. It has nothing to do with the two young forwards the team have (which by the way, their development is important to the team and if they are better than Lee, so much for the better bc Lee is a passing vet on the decline and the other two are young players still getting better). But this goes beyond them, I was already not enthused by the addition bc I had seen the warning signs elsewhere and my concerns have not been dispelled by what I have seen out of Lee.

But so long as he's here I am wishing him the best...

[SAGirl]

In his whole career, Lee played all but two seasons as a PF.

When he started his career with the Knicks, Eddy Curry was the starting Center for the first two years he was there. The reason he HAD to play C the next two years is because D'Antoni wanted to go small and implement the Suns fast pace style of play without a C and Jared Jeffries, who was drafted as a SF, played PF.


As for his time with the Warriors, he played PF his entire time as Biedrins, Ezeli, Bogut were the starting centers. I'm sure there were times Lee was the only big on the floor in times GS went small, just like Aldridge is sometimes or just like Diaw was sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're true centers.

True centers are the guys who are at their best when they defend other centers. As long as you have the size, there's no specific skill-set that needs to be met to play a position. It all comes down to matchups, which position you defend best, and how the players' best attributes match the strengths of the teammates.

Let me ask you this. If Spurs saw Lee as a C when they signed him (like you're implying), why would they stock up on third string center (Lee), without signing a back up PF? Why didn't they sign a back up PF then? And then invite ANOTHER C to camp without inviting a PF?

Don't bring up Jean-Charles, he's irrelevant. And Bertans/ Anderson aren't true PFs they are tweeners -- they don't count.

Plus, one of the Bertans/Anderson will be seeing most of the minutes at the SF spot. It's just hard to believe the Spurs came into the year under your perception, which is signing three centers, and not signing a PF in Free agency -- being content and heavily relying on Bertans to be the only back up PF on the Spurs roster. That scenario makes no sense. Common sense is clear that Spurs signed Lee as a PF.

I think Spurs intend to play Lee as a 4 and I think that will not work out well. He has the offensive game of a center and that limits what that unit can do offensively. Guys will drive and get stuck, or have to force up shots over contested hands of Lee and Dedmon's defenders (I have seen it already in real games). Guys will pass out to Lee in what should be a shooting spot, but he will not take that shot. He will attempt to drive and put up a contested shot (like he did on Bertans, but I have seen it in real games. He's scored a bit on garbage baskets and put backs, but the story is that the putback was there off a miss by someone else who drove and had to put up a tough shot to begin with.

/sigh. Anyways, I have already talked about it and I don't want to sound repe ive. I just wanted to let you know I am not discounting your insight and I usually enjoy these chats and it's not my intent with these things to come out having the final word or being right. I had already expressed some concern prior to the preseason about Lee (and without even knowing how Bertans or others would look), but what I have seen out of lineups with Lee hasn't been good, so I am concerned about him offensively.

Bottom line, I think Pop will try to make it work but the bench will work out better with others who provide better spacing in general. It could be that Pop tries Lee at different spots and with different guys (I have already seen him with Pau and LMA). It's the combinations with Dedmon where the team struggles.

I will just leave it at that. This is one of those areas that may be changing.

By the way, I am not one to wish a guy plays poorly just for me to be right. I don't know if you care about such things, but just putting that out there, bc that's not the reason why I exchange opinions and such. If I am wrong I was wrong and that be fine by me.

[MaNu4Tres]

I think Spurs intend to play Lee as a 4 and I think that will not work out well. He has the offensive game of a center and that limits what that unit can do offensively. Guys will drive and get stuck, or have to force up shots over contested hands of Lee and Dedmon's defenders (I have seen it already in real games). Guys will pass out to Lee in what should be a shooting spot, but he will not take that shot. He will attempt to drive and put up a contested shot (like he did on Bertans, but I have seen it in real games. He's scored a bit on garbage baskets and put backs, but the story is that the putback was there off a miss by someone else who drove and had to put up a tough shot to begin with.

I'm not saying it may work out great, what I was saying is Lee and Dedmon can work when implemented the right way. You said they couldn't because they aren't good one on one players and they aren't shooters. Spurs wouldn't put them in a position to fail or do the team a disservice by calling 4 down for Lee or telling Lee to spot up on the perimeter. Judging them by aspects that are irrelevant to how they'll be used is just wrong. They will have to be very active, setting good screens for the ball handler, have great timing and be effective when rolling or diving ( which Lee and Dedmon have done well in their past). How effective will it be? That will depend a lot on chemistry and timing between them and the ball handlers in the PNR. It will also depend on how well Bertans or another shooter on the weakside shoots to make the weakside a relevant weapon.

Again, there's no specific type of offensive game of a center. All centers are different. There's no specific criteria or skill-set of the position. Some centers post up, some centers are PNR divers, some are Pn Poppers from long 2, some can shoot 3's, some can't shoot, some can take their man off the dribble, some can't dribble, some can finish inside well, some can't finish inside well. There's different variables on the offensive end for all centers, and all positions -- players are different. It's about skill-sets that best fit around the players they are playing with and which position they defend best.

[SAGirl]

Also, discussion of Knicks and prior Lee is irrelevant, that was his peak and he will now soon be 34. He hasn't had a jumpshot for a few years now, so the Lee of his youth is not this version of him in his latter stages. I didn't see him then but his game has changed as he's aged and while he was possible as a PF back then and quite good, he's not now when his jumpshot deserted him. His last spots have been coaches trying to work around his limitations.

[spurs10]

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play.

Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. Being with the right teammates/coaching/system was something Bobo benefited from. Should the Spurs have assumed, he had a negative impact in Charlotte, and he's getting cut from the worst team, so let's just ignore him? No, cause Bobo is valuable and versatile, and with the right guys around him they believed he could have a positive impact (Plus, he's TP's boy)

To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/...mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings...nding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...e62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

Good post! Look forward to checking out those links. Glad you hit on something very important- PATFO didn't get Lee to go against "Cousins/ Griffins." Lee looks like he's got strength and we will need that from our bigs. He can't shoot like Bertans, but has more upper body strength to bang it out in the post when needed.

[SAGirl]

I'm not saying it may work out great, what I was saying is Lee and Dedmon can work when implemented the right way. You said they couldn't because they aren't good one on one players and they aren't shooters. Spurs wouldn't put them in a position to fail or do the team a disservice by calling 4 down for Lee or telling Lee to spot up on the perimeter. Judging them by aspects that are irrelevant to how they'll be used is just wrong. They will have to be very active, setting good screens for the ball handler, have great timing and be effective when rolling or diving ( which Lee and Dedmon have done well in their past). How effective will it be? That will depend a lot on chemistry and timing between them and the ball handlers in the PNR. It will also depend on how well Bertans or another shooter on the weakside shoots to make the weakside a relevant weapon.

Again, there's no specific type of offensive game of a center. All centers are different. There's no specific criteria or skill-set of the position. Some centers post up, some centers are PNR divers, some are Pn Poppers from long 2, some can shoot 3's, some can't shoot, some can take their man off the dribble, some can't dribble, some can finish inside well, some can't finish inside well. There's different variables on the offensive end for all centers, and all positions -- players are different. It's about skill-sets that best fit around the players they are playing with and which position they defend best.

Lee is not a great screen setter either. We are going in circles, but we also haven't seen enough yet and I will give you and brooklynfan that. It's too early in the season. Many times there hasn't been enough screening to begin with and the very early games of preseason saw guys making a lot of mistakes, the scrimmage by its nature is a loose game. Maybe some shots that I saw from Lee there weren't shots he should have taken to begin with (contested drives over Bertans!) The bench has been ineffective with Lee. They play better with deep bench guys than with Lee. They also TO the ball a lot when Lee plays (and that includes lineups devoid of Anderson). Like I said I have observed it closely enough to see that space being cramped, Lee passing up shots when he's open and guys attempting tough passes after getting stuck bc they intended to do something but Lee's defender was in the way has been a factor.

[ceperez]

Did anyone notice how well Laprovitolla played?

As much as there so much press on Forbes, Lapro is just so much better. He's a really crafty point guard that just knows how to setup his team mates. Anderson got two wide open 3 point shots assisted by Lapro. Lapro even hit 2 3 points on the dribble.

[MaNu4Tres]

Did anyone notice how well Laprovitolla played?

As much as there so much press on Forbes, Lapro is just so much better. He's a really crafty point guard that just knows how to setup his team mates. Anderson got two wide open 3 point shots assisted by Lapro. Lapro even hit 2 3 points on the dribble.

Lapro has impressed me over the past two weeks. I was really skeptical of him having a shot at the roster, but he has succeeded my expecations. He's better than Prigioni and Prigioni carved a good back up PG role in this league at a much older age.

If I was running the team, I'd shop Mills for a 1st rounder. Shop Simmons for a 2nd. Then I'd sign Lapro to a 3-4 year cheap contract to compete with Murray the next two years for the back up PG spot.

I'd then use the last two roster spots and sign Forbes to a 2-3 year cheap deal and flip a coin between Garino, Anthony, or another big that may be better than Anthony that another team may buy out or waive. If the coin doesn't land on Garino, I do everything I can to make him feel like he's on the team and keep his rights in Austin for year. Then bring him over next year with Hanga to compete for minutes at the wing.

Just my thoughts.

[SAGirl]

I don't want to just be argumentative, but a couple of Lee's best seasons were as a straight-up C. He was even listed as a C by the Knicks those last couple of seasons in NY. And in his first couple of seasons with Golden State, he spent most of his minutes as the only player on the court that could possibly be considered a center.

David West had spent a MUCH bigger percentage of his career as a PF than Lee, and he wound up getting stuck in the middle far too much when he came to SA. I think that's why I had such a negative knee-jerk reaction when I read that SA had signed Lee, because I could just see him getting put into a C role the same way as West, and it being just as big of a disaster. I really don't hate Lee as a player, I just him being a fit for a team coached by Pop. I was the same way when Richard Jefferson came here. Decent player - not a great fit.

Right now, Lee is probably the second most skilled C on the roster, behind Gasol. And that means we're likely to see Pop playing him in that role. And I'm afraid he's going to look a lot like West did, defensively. Offensively, I really think Lee will be better than West, even though he gets his points in a different way. Someone here, I forget who, mentioned that it's more important for the bench to be good at putting up points, and there's some truth to that. But against teams that have decent bigs on the bench (who are legitimately big) Lee is probably going to take a beating. Both on the floor, and from fans.

You are probably right.

Again, I am wishing the guy the best bc he's a Spurs and Pop will play him and in Bertans' case it's unknown how he will even hold up for the season. He has been fragile.

But with a few exceptions, a lot of benches don't have 2 bruisers. They will have one, like Memphis, Indiana, etc. that is why you need Dedmon. I still have my concerns on Lee, but maybe it is too early to be sound the red alarm.

It's not that I changed my mind either. It's that the criticism and the opinion is not incompatible with the general hoping for the best I still believe the team will be better if the younger forwards step up than if they don't and they have to rely on Lee. But you can't take rookies and youngsters for granted so considering that, he's good to have.

[Trill Clinton]

lazy rundown from what i saw:

kyle played pretty good defense on kawhi. he bothered some shots and poked away his dribble a few times(don't know if thats all good defense or kawhi still being sloppy with his handles) but i was impressed with what i saw from slowmo

kawhi looked like he was playing at 75% speed but i won't hold it against him since it was a scrimmage. he was out of place defensively a few times which is rare for him. all in all, he still was effective and the best player on the court.

the new argentenians looked like they always do. garino has great defense and it was good to see him hit from distance, d league. i like nico's game a lot. he has a confidence about him and his crossover is slow but very effective. i hope both guys go to the d league and we keep them around.

dejounte played under control which is what i wanted to see but his handles are just too sloppy for me. he needs to chill with the high dribble and work on his jump shot more. he can attach the basket but struggles to finish, he's skinny asf so that should come with time.

bertans was the surprise of the night. excellent shooting stroke and he lets it go with confidence and no hesitation. he's going to be a problem with the more experience he gets.

[SAGirl]

Did anyone notice how well Laprovitolla played?

As much as there so much press on Forbes, Lapro is just so much better. He's a really crafty point guard that just knows how to setup his team mates. Anderson got two wide open 3 point shots assisted by Lapro. Lapro even hit 2 3 points on the dribble.

Lapro has impressed me over the past two weeks. I was really skeptical of him having a shot at the roster, but he has succeeded my expecations. He's better than Prigioni and Prigioni carved a good back up PG role in this league at a much older age.

I have liked Laprovittola a lot myself too. He has been a good shooter (better than I thought and not afraid to let it fly if they don't contest him after a pick, if they go under.) He's a good passer too. Overall, he has played well.

This one is tough for Pop. Lapro being the more versatile player gives him the edge, but I have liked other guys as well.

[ceperez]

Lapro has impressed me over the past two weeks. I was really skeptical of him having a shot at the roster, but he has succeeded my expecations. He's better than Prigioni and Prigioni carved a good back up PG role in this league at a much older age.

If I was running the team, I'd shop Mills for a 1st rounder. Shop Simmons for a 2nd. Then I'd sign Lapro to a 3-4 year cheap contract to compete with Murray the next two years for the back up PG spot.

I'd then use the last two roster spots and sign Forbes to a 2-3 year cheap deal and flip a coin between Garino, Anthony, or another big that may be better than Anthony that another team may buy out or waive. If the coin doesn't land on Garino, I do everything I can to make him feel like he's on the team and keep his rights in Austin for year. Then bring him over next year with Hanga to compete for minutes at the wing.

Just my thoughts.

The difference between Nico and Patty is that Nico is able to elude his man with craftiness. His ball handling skills are incredible and I really like the way he shoots. Really a damn high arc that he fires of similar to Curry. He still has room to grow. It is obvious that he has a natural feel for the game, the way he changes his speed and sets up his team mates.

I had though Forbes was the 15th man, but after comparing both in the scrimage, Forbes just isn't anywhere near as crafty. Forbes at this stage of his career is a bit one dimensional and there are plenty of one dimensional players out there in the D-league.

I think it is pretty much settled, Lapro is the 15th man. Not only is he the 15th man, he likely will be in the 13 man rotation with Murray, LJC hanging out in the D-league.