SA Pastor is Sex Freak

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I don't exepect anyone who's been as fortunate as you to see things in a different light.

but i can point out many situations that have occured in which he is, unfortunately, absent.

[Duff McCartney]

Faith? Faith in what? What do you believe?

Do you have faith that Jesus will make you materially wealthy?

Do you have faith simply that his moral teachings are worth following?

Do you have faith that Jesus (PBUH) was a great prophet born of the Virgin Mary, and that he will return at the end times to judge all non-Muslims?

Do you believe that Jesus is the first of Jehovah's spirit children and that if you obey his teachings, you will become the god of your own planet?

Do you believe that Jesus shows us that the material world is an illusion and that by receiving that knowledge, you are saved from that illusion?

Do you believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael, the first and greatest of God's creation?

Do you believe that Jesus was primarily a social reformer who was crucified because he espoused liberal values?

What does "Lord" mean? Does it mean he rules or has dominion over something? Over what? Is he a member of British Parliament? Is he one of the lords a-leaping from the 12 Days of Christmas? What does "Savior" mean? Did he save you from spending too much on car insurance? Did he save you into some kind of special knowledge, or gnosis? Did he save you from unethical or illiberal thinking?

It means whatever he wants it to mean. That's the beauty of it...he could have it be whatever he wants it to be...and in a way he'd be right.

[Duff McCartney]

Thanks for clearing it up....

I can't believe I was duped my entire lifetime....

Belief in GOD is about faith. But since I wouldn't be very successful proving His existence to you or any other doubter with concrete evidence you'll just have to rely on some of my own life changing experiences. Coincidence alone cannot explain these events - especially when given the context. At one point or another these events revealed GOD's purpose for my life and allowed me to reflect about the wonders of His Love, Grace, protection, and provision.

I firmly believe it was GOD that saved me from a car accident in Mexico when I was 7 - one where 4 people lost their lives (precisely on a day I was complaining about my height. Had I been 2 inches taller my head would have been severed off.)

It was HE who intervened and prevented some real-estate scammer from trying to steal our church property (my father ran into the real owner of the property and the rest is history, at ACE Hardware no less... my dad never, ever shopped there). He recalls that he just had a sudden impulse to go there looking for a hammer.

It was GOD who protected my father when he was held up by a random car-jacker in El Salvador. A truck traveling in front of my father's vehicle threw a rock through the windshield. It came in so sudden and struck the gunman on the head rendering him unconscious. My dad simply drove the assailant to the police station.

It was GOD who placed the sudden schedule conflict that kept me out of my planned trip to the World Trade Center observation deck on September 11th, 2001 (looking at my planner still gives me the chills).

It was GOD that provided for our family of five when my father's meager salary could only go so far. We rarely got sick. Our car seldom broke down. We never went hungry. All of us (my two siblings and I), obtained a college degree on full ride scholarships. GOD gave my parents the wisdom of proper stewardship. As a family we were obedient on the question of hes, and He was always more than faithful (keeping His promises according to Malachi 3). While it could be said that our lifestyle choices had much to do with this 'feat', we encountered way too many families who earned 3 or 4 times more than my father but always struggled to remain financially afloat. Really it was GOD who provided.

This again is all tangible. But it touched my life at all the right moments to reveal that GOD has always been there for us.... as promised.

Seems like an awful lot of caring for someone who matters very little...and I mean that with sincerity. In a way to me..it seems very arrogant...like god would actually care about a spurstalk poster.

[Phenomanul]

Seems like an awful lot of caring for someone who matters very little...and I mean that with sincerity. In a way to me..it seems very arrogant...like god would actually care about a spurstalk poster.

Arrogance???


If anything, that's the wonder of it all.... In our physical and magisterial insignificance, GOD actually cares for His children...


I can't remember off the top of my head who here has that animated gif signature with the astronomical progression of Earth to the largest known star. To me it is awestriking, that GOD, the Master and Creator of the universe would love us enough on such a personal level.

[Duff McCartney]

Arrogance???


If anything, that's the wonder of it all.... In our physical and magisterial insignificance, GOD actually cares for His children...

Well I gues that's where we can disagree because I personally don't think he does care about you. I don't really think he cares about any of us like that...not on a personal level.

[lebomb]

Well I gues that's where we can disagree because I personally don't think he does care about you. I don't really think he cares about any of us like that...not on a personal level.

.....Like I said....If Im wrong.....no harm done, and Ive tried to live a better life......If Im right???, well the unbeliever is in serious trouble.

[Kandy is Dandy]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Again, you are generalizing. When did believing in GOD require one to be poor? Wasn't King Solomon the richest man in recorded history?

While the financial spectrum for Christians is all over the board (from very poor to very rich), there is no rule that dictates that GOD can't financially bless people. He blesses some much, and others less. If you think about about it, it's not that hard to figure out; if GOD blessed certain people with more than they could manage they then would lose their dependence on Him. Obviously, that's not something He would want. And while that may be the case for many, even that is not a rule.

Besides (for the second time) many of these people give away far more money, both percentage-wise and absolute value-wise than the majority of those that criticize them. It's a two way street.

So yes... while it is true that many early Christians gave away all their earthly possessions in pursuit of Christ's calling many seem to forget that it was other Christians who helped financially support them.

To each their own.

And again re-read the very first thing I wrote in this thread.



That point continues to be ignored.

This has got to be the most assine thing I have read on the net to date.

Modern Religion is nothing more than a money grab. Each religion if paid enough cayshe will absolve you of your sins.

Since when can a Catholic Priest hear your confession and give you a penance in order for your sins to be forgiven?

In God's own commandments he said thou shall not bow down to any other God. The only God these TV wannabe Pastors know is money. They kneel down and pray before every show that they will take in a huge haul that day. Tammy Faye herself owned more makeup than my family consumed food in one year is proof enough. Not once did I see her on TV without her hair perfectly done and a pound of makeup on each side of her face. She was also sporting very fine jewels and top of the line lables.

Oh puhleeeease. All those schmucks who were giving their last dollars to those scam artists in hopes of a better life those crooks were rubbing their noses in their fancy big homes, fast cars, yachts, trips, etc.

Here is a quarter go buy a clue, because you need it the most.

[anakha]

Since when can a Catholic Priest hear your confession and give you a penance in order for your sins to be forgiven?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

Well, the first Catholic Church do entation of this can be found in the declarations of the 1551 Council of Trent, so if you want to get technical about it, we can use that date.

Also, the following notions about Catholic Confession should be clarified:

- That penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God has determined, and these for the Christian are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance.

- No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God.

- It is not true that for the Catholic the mere "telling of one's sins" suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before.

- While this sacrament as a dispensation of Divine mercy facilitates the pardoning of sin, it by no means renders sin less hateful or its consequences less dreadful to the Christian mind; much less does it imply permission to commit sin in the future. In paying ordinary debts, as e.g., by monthly settlements, the intention of contracting new debts with the same creditor is perfectly legitimate; a similar intention on the part of him who confesses his sins would not only be wrong in itself but would nullify the sacrament and prevent the forgiveness of sins then and there confessed.

Just wanted to clear that up.

I happen to agree with you on televangelists, though.

[peewee's lovechild]

Faith? Faith in what? What do you believe?

Do you have faith that Jesus will make you materially wealthy?

Do you have faith simply that his moral teachings are worth following?

Do you have faith that Jesus (PBUH) was a great prophet born of the Virgin Mary, and that he will return at the end times to judge all non-Muslims?

Do you believe that Jesus is the first of Jehovah's spirit children and that if you obey his teachings, you will become the god of your own planet?

Do you believe that Jesus shows us that the material world is an illusion and that by receiving that knowledge, you are saved from that illusion?

Do you believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael, the first and greatest of God's creation?

Do you believe that Jesus was primarily a social reformer who was crucified because he espoused liberal values?

What does "Lord" mean? Does it mean he rules or has dominion over something? Over what? Is he a member of British Parliament? Is he one of the lords a-leaping from the 12 Days of Christmas? What does "Savior" mean? Did he save you from spending too much on car insurance? Did he save you into some kind of special knowledge, or gnosis? Did he save you from unethical or illiberal thinking?

Great questions.

We should talk it over some beers sometime.

[peewee's lovechild]

Thanks for clearing it up....

I can't believe I was duped my entire lifetime....

Belief in GOD is about faith. But since I wouldn't be very successful proving His existence to you or any other doubter with concrete evidence you'll just have to rely on some of my own life changing experiences. Coincidence alone cannot explain these events - especially when given the context. At one point or another these events revealed GOD's purpose for my life and allowed me to reflect about the wonders of His Love, Grace, protection, and provision.

I firmly believe it was GOD that saved me from a car accident in Mexico when I was 7 - one where 4 people lost their lives (precisely on a day I was complaining about my height. Had I been 2 inches taller my head would have been severed off.)

It was HE who intervened and prevented some real-estate scammer from trying to steal our church property (my father ran into the real owner of the property and the rest is history, at ACE Hardware no less... my dad never, ever shopped there). He recalls that he just had a sudden impulse to go there looking for a hammer.

It was GOD who protected my father when he was held up by a random car-jacker in El Salvador. A truck traveling in front of my father's vehicle threw a rock through the windshield. It came in so sudden and struck the gunman on the head rendering him unconscious. My dad simply drove the assailant to the police station.

It was GOD who placed the sudden schedule conflict that kept me out of my planned trip to the World Trade Center observation deck on September 11th, 2001 (looking at my planner still gives me the chills).

It was GOD that provided for our family of five when my father's meager salary could only go so far. We rarely got sick. Our car seldom broke down. We never went hungry. All of us (my two siblings and I), obtained a college degree on full ride scholarships. GOD gave my parents the wisdom of proper stewardship. As a family we were obedient on the question of hes, and He was always more than faithful (keeping His promises according to Malachi 3). While it could be said that our lifestyle choices had much to do with this 'feat', we encountered way too many families who earned 3 or 4 times more than my father but always struggled to remain financially afloat. Really it was GOD who provided.

This again is all tangible. But it touched my life at all the right moments to reveal that GOD has always been there for us.... as promised.

It seems that your god hates all of Africa and 3/4 of Asia.

[peewee's lovechild]

Oh, and he has no particular love for New Orleans either.

[peewee's lovechild]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

Well, the first Catholic Church do entation of this can be found in the declarations of the 1551 Council of Trent, so if you want to get technical about it, we can use that date.

So, the whole confession thing came up about 1,520 years after the death of Jesus Christ??

So, it didn't come from Christ.

Interesting.

[Extra Stout]

That penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God has determined, and these for the Christian are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance.

- No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God.

- It is not true that for the Catholic the mere "telling of one's sins" suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before.

- While this sacrament as a dispensation of Divine mercy facilitates the pardoning of sin, it by no means renders sin less hateful or its consequences less dreadful to the Christian mind; much less does it imply permission to commit sin in the future. In paying ordinary debts, as e.g., by monthly settlements, the intention of contracting new debts with the same creditor is perfectly legitimate; a similar intention on the part of him who confesses his sins would not only be wrong in itself but would nullify the sacrament and prevent the forgiveness of sins then and there confessed.

Confession in its current form is a fourth-century innovation. Originally, a Christian would stand before the entire congregation and confess all his sins. However, once the church was legalized by Constantine, everybody's grandma started joining, so rather than confessing to a small and intimate group of friends in a safe and private environment, a believer would be confessing in front of hundreds of people, many of whom he didn't know very well.

So confession to the priest was invented as a subs ute for confession to the entire congregation.

[Extra Stout]

Oh, and he has no particular love for New Orleans either.

Personally, I have never seen the church mobilize for relief the way it did following Katrina.

[peewee's lovechild]

Personally, I have never seen the church mobilize for relief the way it did following Katrina.

That wasn't my point.

My father's religion is REAL good about that. Anytime there's some kind of disaster, they send legions of people to help. As a matter of fact, one of my uncles went to New Orleans and help to rebuild many of the homes that had been damaged by the hurricane. All free of charge.

What I was being facetious about was that phenomenul thinks that god gets personally involved with people and he looks after them to make sure no harm comes to them. Millions of people die in Africa and Asia each year. Where's god there if he's supposed to be so interested.

I threw in New Orleans in the arguement for the same reason.

[Kandy is Dandy]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

Well, the first Catholic Church do entation of this can be found in the declarations of the 1551 Council of Trent, so if you want to get technical about it, we can use that date.

Also, the following notions about Catholic Confession should be clarified:

- That penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God has determined, and these for the Christian are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance.

- No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God.

- It is not true that for the Catholic the mere "telling of one's sins" suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before.

- While this sacrament as a dispensation of Divine mercy facilitates the pardoning of sin, it by no means renders sin less hateful or its consequences less dreadful to the Christian mind; much less does it imply permission to commit sin in the future. In paying ordinary debts, as e.g., by monthly settlements, the intention of contracting new debts with the same creditor is perfectly legitimate; a similar intention on the part of him who confesses his sins would not only be wrong in itself but would nullify the sacrament and prevent the forgiveness of sins then and there confessed.

Just wanted to clear that up.

I happen to agree with you on televangelists, though.

I happen to be Catholic, and I call bull . You get in the confessional, and the priest listens to your sins, you confess your sins to him. Then he tells you to say ten hail mary's and you will be forgiven.

Tell me did God slip him an email and tell him to say that?

Go yourself. Unless you have practiced the religion, do not preach it to me. I have studied religion all my life in various capacities and religions.

[anakha]

Forgot to check back on this thread for a while...

I happen to be Catholic, and I call bull .

You get in the confessional, and the priest listens to your sins, you confess your sins to him. Then he tells you to say ten hail mary's and you will be forgiven.

*shrugs* If you want to trivialize it that way...

Tell me did God slip him an email and tell him to say that?

Like I said earlier in this thread:

For me, religion is, and always should be, a personal thing. We each must carefully interpret those things which are written in those books we consider sources of our faith, as it was only men who did the writing. I consider myself Roman Catholic because I feel comfort and connection in the rituals of that religion, but I say people should be free to choose what to believe in. We do not all live our lives in the same way.

Go yourself. Unless you have practiced the religion, do not preach it to me. I have studied religion all my life in various capacities and religions.

Born, raised, and practicing for 25 years.

Remember your initial question?

Since when can a Catholic Priest hear your confession and give you a penance in order for your sins to be forgiven?

I simply tried to give you an answer to that. No need to get so defensive about it.