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  1. #1
    needs a margarita
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    Thougth this was interesting. Aploligies if already posted.


    link

    A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe — your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

    Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

    Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

    Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and, even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

    Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

    Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

    And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.

    I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

    One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".

    What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

    It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

    Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.

    His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

    In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

    On the contrary, we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even Otto Schily justifiably criticizes.

    Why?

    Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

    For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy, because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake — literally everything.

    While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation, or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "Reach out to terrorists, to understand and forgive".

    These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.

    Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice.

  2. #2
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    What a great post. Says exactly what is wrong with Europe.
    And their way of thinking. Does anyone remember: "Peace in our Tiine" Chamberlin (sp). Churchill saved Englands butt, with our help, and
    then they couldn't wait to get rid of him, because he was wartime leader.
    Go figure.

  3. #3
    Roll The Dice Hook Dem's Avatar
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    Nice S y!

  4. #4
    Lottery Pick sbsquared's Avatar
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    Excellent article! It's great that someone has the courage to stand up for what is right and criticize what is wrong - even if the "wrong" is all of Europe!

  5. #5
    i'm at work
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    what if we're wrong?

  6. #6
    Roll The Dice Hook Dem's Avatar
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    what if we're wrong?
    Please list examples!

  7. #7
    i'm at work
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    theyve been listed in the other thread

  8. #8
    I Like Boobs Experiment2100's Avatar
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    Not that I'm backing Europe or anything, but I had to disagree with a couple of things it said about USSR. After WWII America agreed to give Russia half of the spoils. And then we mothballed alot of our weapons giving Russia a huge advantage.

  9. #9
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War,
    RR did not end the cold war. He was just lucky enough to be there at the end. This is a common misconception perpetrated by conservatives.

  10. #10
    Mrs.Useruser666 SpursWoman's Avatar
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    RR did not end the cold war. He was just lucky enough to be there at the end. This is a common misconception perpetrated by conservatives.

    In unrelated news, Bush is responsible for the recession in 2000 because he was lucky enough to be there at the end.



  11. #11
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    RR did not end the cold war. He was just lucky enough to be there at the end. This is a common misconception perpetrated by conservatives.
    Dan you are such a dumbass. Do they teach anything in the college you
    supposedly attend? Like you know: History.

  12. #12
    I Like Boobs Experiment2100's Avatar
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    Dan you are such a dumbass. Do they teach anything in the college you
    supposedly attend? Like you know: History.

    The cold war is boring, I'll take WWII over that any day.

  13. #13
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Overall, this article reeks of nothing but right-wing mentality. Eh, the Europeans are a bunch of appeasers who are thinking about having a Muslim holiday (Jesus forbid), are responsible for the death of millions of Jews, and have stood on the sidelines in this use-less war in Iraq. Frankly S y, this post is what I expect from AHF, SQ2, or Neocon, but not you.

    Very disappointing.

    Did you read Thomas Friedman's article in the local fish wrap today?

  14. #14
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Dan you are such a dumbass. Do they teach anything in the college you
    supposedly attend? Like you know: History.
    RR should have been censured or maybe impeached. He sold weapons to Iran and used the money to fund paramilitaries in South America. That enough 'history' for ya?

  15. #15
    i'm at work
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    we're right because we're right.

    if exporting democracy is now the reason for invading a country with a dictator why stop with iraq?

  16. #16
    El Pollo Loco
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    That is not a got article. Is has some got points but most of it is crap. Europe is pacifist because of two great wars on here territory. They know what war brings. Chamberlain was wrong but he did it because of fear. You Americans haven't seen war for 150 years, everything you experiance is something far far away. And RR didn't free the East Germany, the germans did.

  17. #17
    Lottery Pick sbsquared's Avatar
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    Americans haven't "seen" war for 150 years? Who do you think gave their lives so that all of Europe could be free from Hitler? Sure, we haven't had war on our soil, but we've lost tens of thousands of lives defending other countries - doesn't that count for something?

    Europeans are pacifists because of their socialist mentality.

  18. #18
    El Pollo Loco
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    Check your history book, American help was far greater in arms than in soldiers. More Americans died in civil war than in WW2, and you did not save Europe alone, the main weight was on the Soviet Union.

    And there is a huge difference between sending soldiers to war or have it at home. Check body count for Europe and America in WW1 and WW2 and than ask yourself why we are pacifists.

  19. #19
    Hey Bruce... Lebron is the Rock Sec24Row7's Avatar
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    Stalin and Hitler's stupidity and lack of regard for the life of their soldiers now says about America that WE don't know what war is because WE didn't have as many people Die as those two idiots?

    The soviets paid a horrible price for victory over the Germans, but they didn't have to pay as high a price as they did.

    Their troops got hit by guns on from BOTH sides.

    How dare you say that that way of war was BETTER than ours and that America's donation was more Arms than troops.

    Let me guess, you are from some little "stan" or "ia" nation over there that was under soviet control for 50 years and got pounded into your head a bunch of state sponsored rhetoric about how evil the US was and how much braver your Soviet occupiers were.

    Get bent.

  20. #20
    SW: Hot As Hell
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    WW2

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004619.html

    Code:
    Casualties in World War II
    Country 	Men in war 	Battle deaths 	Wounded
    Australia 	1,000,000 	26,976 	           180,864
    Austria 	800,000 	280,000 	   350,117
    Belgium 	625,000 	8,460 	            55,5131
    Brazil2 	40,334 	          943 	              4,222
    Bulgaria 	339,760 	6,671 	            21,878
    Canada 	     1,086,3437      42,0427 	        53,145
    China3 	     17,250,521       1,324,516 	1,762,006
    Czechoslovakia 	— 	     6,6834 	          8,017
    Denmark 	— 	        4,339 	               —
    Finland 	500,000 	79,047 	           50,000
    France 	            — 	         201,568            400,000
    Germany    20,000,000      3,250,0004 	   7,250,000
    Greece 	          — 	        17,024 	           47,290
    Hungary 	— 	      147,435 	          89,313
    India 	      2,393,891 	32,121   	 64,354
    Italy 	    3,100,000 	      149,4964 	          66,716
    Japan 	   9,700,000 	    1,270,000 	      140,000
    Netherlands 	280,000 	6,500 	         2,860
    New Zealand 	194,000 	11,6254 	17,000
    Norway 	       75,000 	          2,000 	      —
    Poland 	— 	664,000 	530,000
    Romania 	650,0005 	350,0006 	  —
    South Africa 	410,056 	2,473                —
    U.S.S.R. 	    — 	         6,115,0004 	      14,012,000
    United Kingdom 	5,896,000 	357,1164 	369,267
    
    United States 	16,112,566 	291,557 	670,846
    Yugoslavia 	3,741,000 	305,000 	425,000
    Civil War

    http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

    At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000. The number that is most often quoted is 620,000. At any rate, these casualties exceed the nation's loss in all its other wars, from the Revolution through Vietnam.
    The Union armies had from 2,500,000 to 2,750,000 men. Their losses, by the best estimates:
    Battle deaths: 110,070
    Disease, etc.: 250,152
    Total 360,222

    The Confederate strength, known less accurately because of missing records, was from 750,000 to 1,250,000. Its estimated losses:
    Battle deaths: 94,000
    Disease, etc.: 164,000
    Total 258,000

  21. #21
    El Pollo Loco
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    Stalin and Hitler's stupidity and lack of regard for the life of their soldiers now says about America that WE don't know what war is because WE didn't have as many people Die as those two idiots?

    The soviets paid a horrible price for victory over the Germans, but they didn't have to pay as high a price as they did.

    Their troops got hit by guns on from BOTH sides.

    How dare you say that that way of war was BETTER than ours and that America's donation was more Arms than troops.

    Let me guess, you are from some little "stan" or "ia" nation over there that was under soviet control for 50 years and got pounded into your head a bunch of state sponsored rhetoric about how evil the US was and how much braver your Soviet occupiers were.

    Get bent.
    Learn to read! I never said that USA was evil, because i was never told that and I DIDN'T said that our way was BETTER than ours, I just said that it is a huge difference between what Europe experienced and what USA in WW2. And I don't think just dead in combat, also civilian casualtys and total destruction of morality and infrastructure and THAT America did not see for 150 years. Not to mention that USA had around 28% high economic growth during the war. Now by that I mean that US help was greater in arms than in soldiers. If you wouldn't supply the arms than the allied forces (also USSR) would lose even more soldiers.

    And YES I do come from a little "ia" nation and we weren't under Soviet control and we liberated ourself in WW2.

    But I do agree with you on the first three paragraphs, but you must understand that the rate of the friendly fire was also big on the side of the USA and UK.

  22. #22
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I think there is a lot to be said when the civilian population is actually witness to the horror of war. You simply can't account for how horrible things are through newspapers, films, or television.

    If you want to call out Europe for appeasment, then you have to call out the United States as well. And how quickly they are to point out how Europe ignores the deaths in Iraq. Well, how did ANYONE respond to the following:

    China: I don't think anyone stepped up to the plate and invaded China to stop Mao and his death machine, no worry, only 40,000,000 dead.

    Sudan - this sitution is far from new, since 1983 millions have died there. Don't see the US stepping up to invade there yet.

    Congo - Yet more African civil war where millions have died, but who cares????? Not Europe, Not America!

    Cambodia - I don't think anyone tried to stop Pol Pot did they?

    Ethopia - I don't think anyone is stepping up to stop the death from famine and war there either. Damn, appeasers are everywhere!

    Bangladesh - amazing, Cyclones are not the only thing killing people here. We can't stop the weather, but I guess we coudl stop the waring couldn't we?

    Somolia and the rest of Africa - well, we made a huge dent there didn't we? On a whole we pay Africa token attention, but we really dont' care do we?


    So sure, I'll give you that if you look at a very small portion of the pie, America does a much better job of not appeasing, but I think both America and Europe do a damn good job of ignoring.

    America and Europe, Thy Name Is Ignorance

  23. #23
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    , and I totally left out Rawanda.

  24. #24
    Pop Rules
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    Check your history book, American help was far greater in arms than in soldiers. More Americans died in civil war than in WW2, and you did not save Europe alone, the main weight was on the Soviet Union.

    And there is a huge difference between sending soldiers to war or have it at home. Check body count for Europe and America in WW1 and WW2 and than ask yourself why we are pacifists.

    Really.

    http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/cwc/other/stats/warcost.htm

  25. #25
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    I think there is a lot to be said when the civilian population is actually witness to the horror of war. You simply can't account for how horrible things are through newspapers, films, or television.

    If you want to call out Europe for appeasment, then you have to call out the United States as well. And how quickly they are to point out how Europe ignores the deaths in Iraq. Well, how did ANYONE respond to the following:

    China: I don't think anyone stepped up to the plate and invaded China to stop Mao and his death machine, no worry, only 40,000,000 dead.

    Sudan - this sitution is far from new, since 1983 millions have died there. Don't see the US stepping up to invade there yet.

    Congo - Yet more African civil war where millions have died, but who cares????? Not Europe, Not America!

    Cambodia - I don't think anyone tried to stop Pol Pot did they?

    Ethopia - I don't think anyone is stepping up to stop the death from famine and war there either. Damn, appeasers are everywhere!

    Bangladesh - amazing, Cyclones are not the only thing killing people here. We can't stop the weather, but I guess we coudl stop the waring couldn't we?

    Somolia and the rest of Africa - well, we made a huge dent there didn't we? On a whole we pay Africa token attention, but we really dont' care do we?


    So sure, I'll give you that if you look at a very small portion of the pie, America does a much better job of not appeasing, but I think both America and Europe do a damn good job of ignoring.

    America and Europe, Thy Name Is Ignorance
    but we have stopped killing in europe's backyard when they wouldn't. remember bosnia, remember kosovo. u.s. can only do so much...

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