It's nice to see that our candidates are focused on lipstick and who went negative first while our financial sector crumbles.
Lehman seems to be about to declare bankruptcy, gone.
Stunning Fall for Main Street’s Brokerage Firm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/bu...15merrill.html
A.I.G. Seeks $40 Billion in Fed Aid to Survive
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ive/index.html
Capitalists and un/bad regulated markets sure know how to do their business, and never hurt any of the rest of us.
Heads the capitalists win, tails the taxpayers lose.
Private profit, public risk
Righties, tell us again how wonderful regulation-free markets are brilliantly the best thing since canned bacon?![]()
Last edited by boutons_; 09-15-2008 at 02:16 AM.
Dubya's plunge protection team is heating the telecom lines this weekend.....
It's been reported that Lehman will go into bankruptcy Monday. The feds won't bail it out. The CEO is said to contributed to it's downfall.
http://www.reuters.com/article/reute...41059120080914
Update----
Bank of America to Buy Merrill Lynch for $29/Share
WSJ.com
Last edited by Biernutz; 09-14-2008 at 08:16 PM.
Don't worry. McCain/Palin will fix it by cutting earmarks.
there's no fixing the problem. However, Obama may use it as an excuse for the government to now enter the financial industry. I hope the one lesson people learn is how crucial a balance sheet is to running any business. The balance sheet of the United States is a mess. Cutting earkmarks/government spending is just the beginning of what needs to be done. A drastic cut in en lements needs to take place or else the US will also file chapter 11.
Of course Obama's strategy is to add more en lements.
First, let's not forget that it was Clinton who deregulated the banking industry in 1994 and again in 1997.
Second, this is exactly what is supposed to happen with capitalism. Strong, well run companies survive while inefficient, poorly run companies fail. As long as the gov't doesn't bail them out, I don't see what is wrong with that.
"I hope the one lesson people learn is how crucial a balance sheet is to running any business."
no, the one lesson is that huge financial ins utions, even private ones, must show their financials in full transparency, and what they must show must be legally required and clear, and the regulations seriously applied.
Then investors and regulators can decide for themselves if the company is well run and worthy of being invested in.
"this is exactly what is supposed to happen with capitalism. Strong, well run companies survive while inefficient, poorly run companies fail."
so dubya's financial people who rescued/re-nationalized fannie and freddie, and rescued Bear, are anti-capitalism?
Remember, a nationalized f & f worked great for decades until f & f were allowed, esp under dubya, to abuse their role a govt-backed.
As always, free markets work very poorly, as today shows, when not regulated.
If any private company, eg investment banks, is too big to be allowed to fail, then it's too big to be unregulated.
SEC/Treasury/FED have ALL failed to protect Americans from Monday's like this, and from the entire mortgage crisis.
Last edited by boutons_; 09-15-2008 at 12:35 PM.
Boutons this problem has little to do with regulation. The problem was how these companies underwrote mortgages. Instead of using credit and the assets of the buyer in underwriting they instead tried to use statistical modeling. Very similar to how insurace is underwriten. For example, 1 out of 1000 people ages 25 to 30 will die this coming year. They decided to considr mortgages rhe same wa saying 1 out of 1000 would defaylt when in fact the rate of default was significantly higher with 100percent financing and bad credit.
Last edited by 2centsworth; 09-15-2008 at 11:36 AM.
"insurance"
people dying or getting sick is a well-known actuarial basis. Insurance companies have taken hits of 10s of $Bs and not folded. yes, I'm aware of the re-insurance market.
Using the same basis for mortgages has obviously failed. There should be in place regulations that prevent re-selling bundled (suspect + non-suspect) debt obligations to the rest of the planet, so the lenders can keep on selling (bad) mortgages.
There will be of course always tricks for companies, esp big companies with best corporate lawyers and financial talent, to get around regulations, since that's the nature of what they do to make more $$, no matter how unethical (companies have no ethical status), no matter how damaging their shenanigans are.
Basic operating principle: NEVER trust capitalists and corps because they will betray that trust to individuals over with their enormous power and political influence.
How do you express your paranoia? Just like the paranoid Founding Fathers. You make laws and regulations and checks/balances, AND, your have the police force in place to enforce the regulations, and serious punishment, not wrist-slaps, including shutting down.
And I'd like to see removed the scam where a company settles for $1B penalty with no admission of wrongdoing. What a ing farce.
they could plan their premiums accordingly. Mortgages should have never been underwritten this way. The premium(credit spreads) were no where near enough to compensate. Plus, the consumers receiving mortgages were buying way too much house, and can you blame them since there was little to no underwriting. This created a real estate bubble that is bursting.
the billions of dollars of losses should prevent this from occuring in the future. Companies with good balance sheets will make a fortune.Using the same basis for mortgages has obviously failed. There should be in place regulations that prevent re-selling bundled (suspect + non-suspect) debt obligations to the rest of the planet, so the lenders can keep on selling (bad) mortgages.
long-term the well run companies last. sometimes companies make mistakes, but we are the wealthiest and most transparent country in the world because of our financial markets.There will be of course always tricks for companies, esp big companies with best corporate lawyers and financial talent, to get around regulations, since that's the nature of what they do to make more $$, no matter how unethical (companies have no ethical status), no matter how damaging their shenanigans are.
"should prevent this from occuring in the future"
... when entire financial structure of USA is at risk (as was said with Bear, F&F, Lehman, and now AIG), the regulations should prevent the disaster, not shut the barn door afterwards.
Was this disaster so opaquely impossible to see coming? I have a buddy who is loan broker in CA, he said the "stated income", no proof, for borrowers was a huge scam. Now, stated income is replaced with several proofs, which is an easy, simple regulation, protecting both parties.
When the hit the fan, the word from the Wall St was that not even Wall st could know who was risk, who had done what, the multi-layered complexity rendered the securitized market totally opaque. Nobody foresaw Fuld/Lehman going under. Total opacity.
"most transparent country in the world because of our financial markets"
comparing a (domestic) flower to a pile of (foreign) makes any flower smell pretty good, doesn't it. We can all rest assured that the foreign capital that has $Ts invested in US, are feeling 100% confident that USA's financial system is solid.
I read where it was the Chinese who decided to pull the plug on F&F, threatening to pull their money out if US didn't save F&F. iow, the USA "free market" is no longer able to control itself with sovereign funds, etc owning so much of the country.
I remember a point where it was illegal for foreigners to own/control a US airline. What a silly concept, with foreigners holding the US by the $short and $curlies.
again, private gain, public risk; heads Wall st wins, tails taxpayers lose.
Why does anyone bother responding to boutons? Would you debate a re ed child?
POTD.
Aside from that, I'm glad they let Lehman fail. Tired of seeing America be on the hook for some greedy ass Wall Street pricks.
As we await the government's response to AIG, the automakers, and so on.
The damage is done.
AIG to be allowed to borrow $20B from its subsidiaries. So far, taxpayers aren't gouged.
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