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  1. #1
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Invariably, Ive always thought myself a conservative....that was until I got here at Spurstalk and was told by the whottt/clanny/Yoni/Xrays of the world that I'm a terrorist loving liberal sociopath and then they provided links to other people to prove it.

    I took stock of who I am and realized that if conservatism were a mental-health hospital, then the inmates had taken over the asylum without me noticing.

    That more or less, removed me from their inner circle, and could never have cared less.
    I'm pretty sure I've apostasized from conservatism. Last week, someone called me a liberal communist sympathizer because I said that if Obama were elected, I wasn't going to pull the "he's not my President" card or call him "that n***** in the White House." So I'm out of the club. I am basically a pro-life moderate now, still slowly trending leftward.

    Somewhere back there conservatism changed.
    I always considered myself more conservative before as well. That being said, I know my personal ideology has shifted to the left and I'm OK with that. I don't think I can consider myself anything but a liberal now.
    I used to consider myself a centrist, and somewhere along the line was called a liberal, and since then I have simply given up and worn the label with pride.

    I revel in the fact that I get to f*** with what a lot of "conservatives" believe about "liberals".

    Quite frankly I really believe the modern conservative movement has become morally and intellectually bankrupt
    Heck yes it is important, I was in the Young Republicans...and am fiscally conservative by nature.....

    But the Evangelical - walking with Dinos and speaking in tongues - taking over the Republican party has pushed me as far away from that intellectual nightmare so fast it would make your headspin.

    I think the Republican party has been taken over by the Christian version of the Taliban, and until the moderates take it back and put those morons back in their place....I will not be voting for them.

    DD
    Anybody else sensing a theme here?

    This is why Republicans are losing elections. That people like Aggiee Hoopsfan or Wild Cobra might not see it says to me that the Republicans are doomed.

    ----------------------------

    This came out of another thread, and seemed to merit it's own discussion.

    If I were a Republican strategist, these statements would be very alarming.

    As it is, it provides some anecdotal evidence that there is something of a backlash towards the right from the middle.

    If I were a Democratic strategist, I would be looking for a way to capitalize on this.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; 10-23-2008 at 10:34 AM.

  2. #2
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Eh, it's cyclical. That's part of the reason why I'm voting for Obama. The right needs to crash and burn and reinvent themselves. And really, there's nothing wrong with that. Political parties reinventing themselves is a cycle.

    I find it a bit humorous when those on the left tend to think that we are headed into an era where the Democrats will rule the nation for generations as the Republicans die a slow and painful death. By 2012 or 2016, the right will have regained their footing and the left will be in their own crisis.

    'Tis just the way things work in the political world.

  3. #3
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Eh, it's cyclical. That's part of the reason why I'm voting for Obama. The right needs to crash and burn and reinvent themselves. And really, there's nothing wrong with that. Political parties reinventing themselves is a cycle.

    I find it a bit humorous when those on the left tend to think that we are headed into an era where the Democrats will rule the nation for generations as the Republicans die a slow and painful death. By 2012 or 2016, the right will have regained their footing and the left will be in their own crisis.

    'Tis just the way things work in the political world.
    Quite true. I think the Democrats will see their cycle next (as in 4-8 years). They cant have the fringe leadership running their party either. So we will see where The Obama/Pelosi/Reids take us in the next 4-8 years.

    Worse or better? Im voting worse, but I think thats more indicative of the horrible financial system we rely upon than the ineptness of our politicians.

    at 'Tis

  4. #4
    9mm nkdlunch's Avatar
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    Obama will drink the blood of every single republican and their children.

  5. #5
    Senior Member TheMadHatter's Avatar
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    Actually the Republican party is somewhat doomed and it's not because of the reasons you mentioned.

    Minorities. The Hispanic population in this country alone will exponentially multiply in the next few decades and they as a voting block are solidly Democratic. We already see the effect in CO and NM, both states that Bush won in '04 are now turning blue in large part because of the Hispanic vote.

    If the Republicans keep catering to white America and white America alone they will not have the votes to win elections with the way our population is growing.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I think it's naturally a cyclical thing. Reagan learned some lessons watching Nixon, and so did Clinton watching Mondale and Dukakis. Number one: in a democratic society, you have to make yourself look appealing to a certain amount of people in order to get elected. If you refuse to compromise on anything, or consider the feelings of those who don't agree with you on some issues, it's unlikely you will ever be president. Call it the Ralph Nader Syndrome. You can't run on a platform that essentially calls 85% of the people in this country idiots, and hope to be elected in a society where popular opinion counts. As Winston Churchill said: "democracy is the worst form of government-- except for all the other forms of government."

  7. #7
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    So is Sarah Palin the new face of the Republican party?

  8. #8
    Basketball Expertise spurster's Avatar
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    If the GOP is doomed, the Democratic Party won't be too far behind.

    I see the doom starting with Bush transforming the budget surpluses he started with into monstrous deficits. We are seeing this year the kind of bust that can happen when people and banks become overloaded with debt. With large deficits as far as the eye can see, our government is heading down the same path. The average voter (and Spurstalk poster perhaps) has been brainwashed to think that he or she will starve (or suffer some other calamity) if current taxes are set to be equal with current government spending. However, we also simultaneously resisting any cut in government programs. For example, we want to keep Social Security, but we resist the obvious and sensible fix, which is higher SS taxes to maintain it. To my mind, our deficit spending amounts to even more taxes that we and our descendants will have to pay in the future, or else a great big bankruptcy.

    No politician is winning any election now by promising to (1) just keep the programs we have, and (2) set taxes based on what we spend. Instead, we have politicians in both major parties promising more programs and/or tax cuts even given our current deficit. This is a mindset that can end very badly.

    I think Obama's plan does implement more taxes, but aimed at rich people and companies (I know, I know, starvation and chaos will follow). Unfortunately, he has promise still lower taxes to 95% of us to get votes, and SS, current health care, and more universal health care can easily ruin the budget.

  9. #9
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Since there's not a conservative running, the entire country will move left by default.


    Two socialists with slightly different tax and health care plans -- YAY!

  10. #10
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Since there's not a conservative running, the entire country will move left by default.


    Two socialists with slightly different tax and health care plans -- YAY!
    I wouldnt call them socialists, but otherwise, this is truth.

  11. #11
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    I agree with the OP. There's something deeper here than a cyclical need for the GOP to reinvent itself. That is, I'm not sure the party is capable of re-inventing itself. The lunatic right-wing base is deeply entrenched in their views, if anything more so now than ever. Which is a shame when looking at the legacy of their poster child in George W. Bush. The republican base has lost all credibility, but instead of asking why and stepping back from the neocon lunacy, as a result they seem to be trending even more right-ward as evidenced by Sarah Palin fever and the said hateful slander being hurled both on this board and in the GOP base as a whole.

    So in other words, I don't think the party will survive being torn between the more moderate Goldwater conservatives and the extremely right-wing necon base. The more right wing the base goes (and right now they are off and continuing into the ing deep end) the more they turn off anybody and everybody who has any sense whatsoever. They are the base of Angel Luvs and BRHornets. Brain-washed zombies and racist uneducated trash. They show no signs of rationality, morality or decency and I'm quite sure they will doom the Republican Party.

    I do agree however that the Democrats aren't in great shape either; more or less because they're going to inherit the burning mess of world the GOP gives them, but still, I think it's going to be tough going for the dems. More or less I see fertile ground for a third party awakening; I hope so anyway.

  12. #12
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I wouldnt call them socialists, but otherwise, this is truth.
    True. Obama is a marxist and McCain only is a socialist in the traditional charitable way.

  13. #13
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    What I've said before is that the GOP is doomed because they lost their conservative ways. Not because of conservatism, but because they are suppose to be more conservatives but they are being infected by some RINO desease.

  14. #14
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    blah blah blah

    Republicans or whatever new name they come up with will never be doomed. Why? Because most "liberal" policies will run this country into the ground. Otherwise, America would not have been the TOP DOG by being like the rest.


    The country is a pendulum. People are turning more liberal because they are comfortable after not having to go through much hardship in the recent years. It'll sway back conservative eventually.

    The only way the repubs are doomed is if the real conservatives eventually stand up and say enough of this and form a third party or purge the current one.
    Last edited by Anti.Hero; 10-22-2008 at 04:44 PM.

  15. #15
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    Because most "liberal" policies will run this country into the ground.
    There's been a republican president for the past 8 years and republican controlled congress for six of the past 8. And you know what- only 7% of the nation thinks we're headed in the right direction. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-track-rating/

    Your party came in, in 2000, with a peaceful and prosperous world and in 8 short years you're torn it into pieces; so STFU about liberal policies running this country into the ground. The God damn plane has already crashed into the ing mountain you nitwit.

  16. #16
    Veteran ratm1221's Avatar
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    There's been a republican president for the past 8 years and republican controlled congress for six of the past 8. And you know what- only 7% of the nation thinks we're headed in the right direction. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-track-rating/

    Your party came in, in 2000, with a peaceful and prosperous world and in 8 short years you're torn it into pieces; so STFU about liberal policies running this country into the ground. The God damn plane has already crashed into the ing mountain you nitwit.
    Amen.

  17. #17
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    If you throw the political labels out and look at the last two presidents... one was, in the words of Alan Greenspan, "obsessed" with eliminating the federal deficit. The other has never been described by anyone of any political slant as being even focused on eliminating deficit spending. In fact, his administration popularized the philosophy that "deficits don't matter." So who was more fiscally conservative? Obviously, Clinton was-- by a mile.

  18. #18
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    It's shame that at a time when we're going to be running a 1.5 ing trillion dollar budget deficit that people including McCain/Palin would scream "socialist" at the prospect of Obama's moderate tax increase on the upper class. It's a shame at a time like this that they would try to portray fair taxation as unpatriotic. It boggles my mind really. Now I'm pissed- all you neocon, trickle down es.

  19. #19
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    The only way the repubs are doomed is if the real conservatives eventually stand up and say enough of this and form a third party or purge the current one.
    This may be true. There is a conservative party out there, but they are too small. I think if conservative republicans split off and joined, things could really happen.

  20. #20
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    There's been a republican president for the past 8 years and republican controlled congress for six of the past 8. And you know what- only 7% of the nation thinks we're headed in the right direction. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-track-rating/

    Your party came in, in 2000, with a peaceful and prosperous world and in 8 short years you're torn it into pieces; so STFU about liberal policies running this country into the ground. The God damn plane has already crashed into the ing mountain you nitwit.
    My party? lmao Any real conservative can tell you what a up GWB and all the RINOs have been. Although any non-nitwit should have certainly been able to make great money for 3/4 of it.

    Homie there is a big difference between the neocon republicans and the real conservatives.

    You will not have to worry about them keeping up with this much longer because the real conservatives will take care of them for you. I guarantee it.


    YOUR PARTY will just provide the motivation.

    This is just a normal cycle of America. Nothing new.
    Last edited by Anti.Hero; 10-22-2008 at 05:11 PM.

  21. #21
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    You will not have to worry about them keeping up with this much long because the real conservatives will take care of them for you. I guarantee it.
    That's exactly the point. It won't happen. There not enough "real conservatives". The base of the republican party is neocon. If the republican party does manage to wrangle power back in a centrist way they'll just turn off the base. There is a huge divide between the base and the goldwater conservatives- both groups need each other to win and both groups are becoming increasingly incompatico. Neither group is "taking care" of the other Instead the party will remain divided, disenfranchised and eventually I'd imagine torn into two non-viable parties; a necon base party and more libertarian/moderate party.

  22. #22
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    This may be true. There is a conservative party out there, but they are too small. I think if conservative republicans split off and joined, things could really happen.
    I think as time goes on the country might continue to drift away from religion and social conservatism and you will eventually get a party who MUST be fiscal conservative and relaxed on some social issues. A country can only go so far be expanding those who receive benefits and pissing off those who pay taxe.s

  23. #23
    Beware of the Voices Bigzax's Avatar
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    i was conservative in 93 and i'm conservative now...

    we are on our own in this .

    accept it. embrace it. overcome. pat yourself on the back.

    it's the conservative way.

  24. #24
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    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=95968435
    Regardless of what happens to John McCain on Nov. 4 — and, with two weeks to go, it's not promising — there's going to be a new Republican Party come Nov. 5, a post-George W. Bush GOP where long-suppressed (and not so suppressed) resentments are likely to come to the surface. The unknown at this point is which way the party goes in the wake of these resentments.

    Colin Powell, hardly an active, partisan Republican, but a Republican nonetheless, had his say on Sunday, on NBC's Meet the Press. In endorsing Barack Obama, the former secretary of state under Bush said he was concerned that the GOP has moved more to the right than he would have liked, that the party has become more narrow-minded, that he fears the effect of two more conservative Supreme Court justices. The move was damning for McCain, though not unexpected.

    Another moderate, former Michigan Gov. William Milliken, has also spoken out against the direction of the party, but that is not surprising, either. Milliken, who was his state's longest-serving governor (1969-82) and is now 86 years old, endorsed John Kerry over Bush in 2004. Jim Leach, the liberal Republican who lost his Iowa House seat two years ago, spoke on behalf of Obama at this year's Democratic convention in Denver. There is no lack of party faithful who have expressed unease over McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, and her views about cultural issues, or dismay at the campaign's focus on Bill Ayers — that "washed-up terrorist," in McCain's own words. Lest we forget, there was also the spectacle of Christopher (son of William F.) Buckley declaring for Obama.

    At the same time, the party is likely to feel a post-election tug toward the right. Newt Gingrich is ready, willing and available, having offered himself as a sage who will bring the party back to its principles. There are some in the GOP who have privately said that Gingrich, the former House speaker, would be less than heartbroken if McCain went down to defeat, enabling the party to turn to new (read: Newt) leadership for 2012. But he has no shortage of ideas about how to bring the party back to life.

    One issue sure to be contentious in a post-Bush GOP is immigration. Bush, McCain and the business community have long worked for an inclusive policy with the goal of more legal avenues of employment. Others in the party, especially in Congress, have a different perspective: They see immigration as a broken system that needs fixing (securing the border) before anything else. And then there are the issues of spending, earmarks and taxes, a consensus on which continues to elude Republicans.

    Republicans are also likely to purge their leadership in Congress, certainly in the House. The party seems headed for another double-digit loss of House seats — the first time it has suffered such back-to-back losses since the 1930s. Minority Leader John Boehner and Whip Roy Blunt somehow managed to survive the loss of their majority in 2006 with their leadership posts intact; it's hard to envision a repeat performance.

    Let's be honest here: The party was going to be in trouble no matter who the standard-bearer was going to be. The president is unpopular; the war is unpopular. The price of gasoline and food has skyrocketed. Add to that the undeniable fact that Obama — with a flawless campaign, unprecedented fundraising and millions of new voters signed up on his behalf — is proving to be an elusive target.

    But it's the turning south of the economy that has put a huge burden on McCain's shoulders. His post-St. Paul convention bounce has been replaced by depressingly large drops in the Dow and, more important, large drops in confidence in the country's economic stability. That's really not McCain's fault. But let's face it: At 72 years of age, he was never the guy to take the party into the future.

    Part of it is that McCain was never a right-wing pinup, not with a history of battling conservatives on everything from campaign finance to the Bush tax cuts to overhauling the nation's immigration system. He did move noticeably to the right this year, embracing more of the Bush administration's agenda than he had in the past. But no one outside of the DNC can say with a straight face that he is emblematic of a third Bush term (for better or worse). For all his talk about cutting spending and waste, McCain's proposal to have the government buy up troubled mortgages is anything but conservative and instead will surely add to the debt. The selection of Palin did help his cause with many on the right, but nobody will confuse him with Ronald Reagan — or even Barry Goldwater, his idol and predecessor in the Senate.

    But if the McCain-Goldwater comparison is not quite apt, we might compare the state of the GOP today to what happened in 1964, in the aftermath of Goldwater's crushing defeat. Liberal and moderate Republicans who were ignored or pushed aside during that campaign, such as New York's Nelson Rockefeller and Michigan's George Romney, claimed after the LBJ landslide that the party had lost its bearings by moving so far to the right. Ray Bliss, an Ohio Republican known for his nuts-and-bolts approach to politics, was brought in to run the national party. The GOP had a major comeback in the 1966 midterms, picking up 47 House seats, and it won back the White House two years later with Richard Nixon.

    To be sure, there were recriminations after Goldwater's defeat in '64, and in retrospect, the Republicans' fall from grace didn't last that long. But one gets the sense that another battle is approaching, win or lose on Nov. 4, and it could get ugly before it turns pretty.

  25. #25
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    "Obama is a marxist"

    LIAR

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