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i'll be patient and let Enigma start the next game thread
It will be a tough game coz the Spurs are still the Spurs. They have had a couple of big losses and they will be fired up.
Looking to bounce back after a disappointing loss in Houston, the Spurs came back to San Antonio and instead added to the disappointment. The Detroit Pistons rallied from a 10-point third quarter deficit to post a decisive 89-77 victory.
The Pistons, who are still looking to reclaim their chemistry after trading for Allen Iverson earlier in the season, were very impressive down the stretch of the game. Rasheed Wallace was fired up, Allen Iverson was his usual disruptive self and Rodney Stuckey did his best Chauncey Billups imitation. Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton were each extremely aggressive and continually found holes in San Antonio’s defense. The Pistons still have a ways to go to figure out how to play well as a unit but their win on Tuesday night was definitely a step in the right direction.
For the Spurs, it’s a frustrating point in the season. After the game, Pop called the team soft – a tactic he uses at least once a season. And while their lack of physicality was part of the problem, their stagnant offense was also a major culprit. Adding All-Stars Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili back into the equation would seemingly help the offense, but the All-Star duo is having a tough time figuring out how to fit back into the team concept. That issue is being compounded with everyone else on the team passively standing around waiting for Parker and Ginobili to figure it out.
Overall, it’s not shocking that the Spurs are going through an adjustment period, however the adjustments being this difficult to figure out is surprising. The cohesiveness on offense is nowhere to found and then the passive play is carried over to the other end of the court. The Spurs will figure it out eventually but it’s going to be ugly until that point.
Tim Duncan
40 minutes, 23 points, 13 rebounds, four turnovers
9-for-19 from the field, 5-for-6 at the line
Tim Duncan was fantastic in the first half. With the rest of the team in an offensive funk, Duncan literally carried the team. He scored 18 points in the first half on an array of post moves and jumpers. After getting off to a good start in the second half, he was held without a field goal for the last 19 minutes of the game. Detroit’s defense deserves props for stepping up their intensity in the paint, but the rest of the team wasn’t exactly helping Duncan out by standing around waiting for him to re-takeover the game. Defensively, Duncan was actually pretty effective – especially shutting off the paint in the halfcourt sets. Like everyone else, though, he could have played with more toughness in the paint on the defensive end.
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Manu Ginobili
28 minutes, 13 points, three rebounds, three assists
4-for-11 from the field, 2-for-6 on three-pointers, 3-for-4 at the line
Manu Ginobili had his second consecutive difficult outing. Like last game, Ginobili seems to be laboring a bit on his surgery repaired ankle. The aspect that really stands out is that Ginobili is having a tough time stopping as quickly as before. A lot of his offensive play is contingent upon him being able to stop on a dime to either shoot or change direction – and he’s just not able to do that right now. It’s not time to panic yet but that’s something to watch for as the season progresses. Against the Pistons, Ginobili had a few good moments offensively but a lot of the time the player movement and the ball movement stopped when he had the ball – especially when he played with the second unit. And while Ginobili has to adjust, it’s more of everyone else having to adjust to Ginobili. Players like George Hill and Roger Mason, Jr. can’t wait defer to Ginobili so much that they become non-factors.
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Tony Parker
36 minutes, 18 points, five assists, four rebounds, three turnovers
6-for-14 from the field, 6-for-8 at the line
It’d be easy to blame Tony Parker’s struggles on injury but he looks healthy enough to me. I don’t see a lack of explosion or a lack of speed. At the moment it appears that he’s just unsure of himself and out of rhythm. He’s trying to figure out when to attack and when to run plays for others … and he’s not having much success. Like Ginobili, Parker is having trouble figuring out his role when playing with the second unit. Defensively, he had some good moments against Iverson but also had other moments where he let AI push him around.
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Michael Finley
34 minutes, five points, three rebounds, two assists
2-for-8 from the field, 1-for-6 on three-pointers
Michael Finley had one of his worst games of the season. He missed a bunch of wide open shots offensively and had almost no energy on the defensive end. Whenever Prince would go around a screen, Finley would get hung up on the screen and give Prince a wide open jumper. Finley, who started at small forward once again, has to play with more effort defensively to keep his starting gig. On offense, Finley hasn’t figured out how to play next to Ginobili. Since Ginobili’s return, Finley is shooting 35.9% from the field and his points per minute statistic is way down. Finley has to find ways to contribute offensively when he doesn’t have a lot of plays called for him.
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Matt Bonner
25 minutes, five points, nine rebounds
2-for-8 from the field, 1-for-5 on three-pointers
Matt Bonner leapfrogged Fabricio Oberto to start at center. Bonner responded by having one of his worst shooting games of the season. I thought his shot selection was questionable a few times when he launched shots with Wallace running out on him. The good news is that Bonner did a fine job defensively and on the boards. He was one of the few Spurs players that was physical down low and it was great to see him rebounding the ball well. In his current stretch of good play, his rebounding numbers had started to drop as his shooting percentages rose.
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Roger Mason, Jr.
31 minutes, six points, two rebounds, five turnovers
2-for-6 from the field, 1-for-4 on three-pointers
Roger Mason, Jr. is having a tough time adjusting to Parker and Ginobili getting more touches. As a result, he has been rushing shots and forcing the issue with drives down the lane. To his credit, he wouldn’t be getting many shots at all if he wasn’t playing with tons of aggression. Against the Pistons, Mason had a poor game. Defensively he was a step slow and offensively he hurt the team with his five turnovers. One area that Mason needs to work on is not letting players hack down on the ball when he’s driving the lane. Cradling the ball a la Parker and Ginobili would cut down on his turnover rate.
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Bruce Bowen
16 minutes, five points, three rebounds, two steals
2-for-3 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers
Bruce Bowen didn’t have much to hang his head about after this game. He came off the bench and played his role well. Defensively, Bowen was a pest and was one of the few players on the team willing to go chest to chest against the Pistons. Bowen even chipped in with a couple of buckets on the offensive end. With Parker and Ginobili in the starting lineup, I’m not quite sure why Bowen hasn’t joined them. A player who doesn’t need the ball on offense and is willing to play tough defense seems like exactly what the starting lineup needs.
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Fabricio Oberto
14 minutes, two points, two rebounds
1-for-2 from the field
Fabricio Oberto’s lack of doing much of anything statistically finally cost him his starting job. I have to believe that rebounding was the biggest reason for the demotion and his one defensive rebound in 14 minutes against Detroit didn’t help his case. In the past, Oberto has struggled coming off the bench and if he does that this year, he could find himself totally out of the rotation. His passing is his strength right now but even he’s not a good enough passer to make up for a lack of rebound and a lack of scoring.
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George Hill
Six minutes, two rebounds
George Hill was the definition of passiveness in his six minutes of action in the first half. On offense, he failed to do much of anything other than bring the ball up and pass it off. I can’t remember even one instance where he attacked. He let the Pistons pressure him to take the ball out of his hands and deferred completely to Ginobili when paired with him. Defensively, he wasn’t doing anything to negate his non-existent offensive play. All that said, I though Pop should have given him another shot in the second half. Giving him the Beno Treatment isn’t going to do anything to help him figure out how to play now that the cavalry has arrived. Hill has to realize that even if he’s on the court with David Robinson, George Gervin, Sean Elliott and James Silas he must play aggressively and act like he’s the best player on the floor. When he’s in attack mode, he’s a very good player. When he plays like Jacque Vaughn’s younger brother, he’s not.
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Jacque Vaughn
Six minutes, one assist
Jacque Vaughn wasn’t the answer on this night. I’m not sure why Pop went with him in the second half, especially when the offense was struggling enough without Vaughn on the court. Vaughn of course played hard but he was overmatched on both ends. With as much as Hill has shown, there’s really no reason to ever go with Vaughn. Heck, if Pop wants to bench Hill, I’d much prefer he go with Mason or Ginobili at point guard.
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Ime Udoka
Four minutes
Pop didn’t play Ime Udoka until eight and a half minutes to go in the game. The Pistons proceeded to score nine straight points. While it all wasn’t Udoka’s fault, he certainly didn’t do anything to help. His defense was again atrocious out on the perimeter and he didn’t help out on the boards. Pop put Udoka in a tough spot and not surprisingly Udoka failed to deliver.
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Gregg Popovich
Pop produced many questionable decisions against the Pistons. First of all, I’m far from sold on the starting lineup. If you are going to start Parker and Ginobili, I don’t understand why he selected Finley as the third perimeter player. Putting another player into the unit that needs touches and plays called for him doesn’t make much sense. Then playing Finley 34 minutes even when he wasn’t much of a help on either end made even less sense. Worst of all was Pop going with Vaughn over Hill. I don’t care if Hill is playing horribly, Vaughn is not the answer. Repeat: Vaughn. Is. Not. The. Answer. Oh and playing Bowen only 16 minutes when he was one of the few players producing was another head scratcher.
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Offense
The offense was difficult to watch. Stagnation was taken to a whole new level. The role players were waiting for the Big Three to produce, while the Big Three couldn’t figure out what they wanted to do. On top of that, Pop’s highly questionable rotation magnified the problems. For the game, the Spurs shot 39.4% from the field, hit only 6-of-24 three-pointers and only got to the line 19 times. They also had a season-high 17 turnovers to go with the same number of assists. Pop and the Big Three need to settle on an offensive game plan and the role players need to not be afraid to make things happen on their own.
Defense
The numbers look horrible for the defense and while the defense was definitely poor, a lot of the problems came off of turnovers. The Pistons seemingly had 14 steals and seemingly ran each one of those steals down the court for an easy basket. The transition defense could have been better but even the best transition defense can’t cover breakaway baskets off of steals. In the halfcourt, the Spurs played good defense at times but when the Pistons upped their intensity, the Spurs failed to match it. On the night, the Pistons shot 50% from the floor and 54.5% from beyond the three-point arc. Rebounding was again a bright spot for the Spurs as they outrebounded the Pistons 41-37.
Drive to Five
The Spurs are in a rough patch right now. There’s too much thinking going on and not nearly enough aggressiveness. Next up, the Spurs face a Denver Nuggets team that is playing great basketball at the moment. They’ve won their last three games by 59 points and handed the Spurs a ten-point defeat in San Antonio a few weeks ago. This isn’t the team you want to face when you are struggling, especially on the road, but a win here would really be a confidence builder and could possibly shake the Spurs out of this funk.
Believe.
i'll be patient and let Enigma start the next game thread
It will be a tough game coz the Spurs are still the Spurs. They have had a couple of big losses and they will be fired up.
Unfortunately these Spurs arent still those Spurs.
Yet to see that.
thanks
Nice read. Seems like we are hearing every game of Finley 'this was the worst game of the season for Finley'. I just hope this trend doesn't continue for Fin.
Do we have an idea of what was the Pop plan during this game ? Why insisting playing Finley ? Why JV ? Why only few minutes for Bowen ? why ? why ?
CIA stuff ?
Seems like he was trying to get away with one.
My thoughts can be summed up in two words...we sucked.
Strange lineups and subs utions last night, maybe best summed up by one comment: WTF was JV doing in there?
Then again, that's Pop. I can't even count how many November and December games he's virtually thrown away through the years by "experimenting" with his lineups. It's just something he does early in the season, and I've always hated it.
Paralysis by analysis. No one sure of their role -- too much deference now that they are each surrounded by such talent.
They just need to be more aggressive, less deferential and regain their edge.
Assuming egos stay out of the way, they should be better than ever once they work through this.
Right?
What troubles me the most is that we are almost 25% through the season and we show no signs of immediate improvement. Let's be honest we haven't played the celtics, lakers, Hornets yet and we still at least 2 games with the Blazers, Nuggets, Rockets, so this notion that when we finally gell we can make a push is a stretch. By the time we 'gell' we may be fighting just to make the playoffs. It is disappointing to see Parker not trying to involve the news guys Mason in particular. Parker knows he's not in game shape so instead of trying to slowly intergrate himslef into the offense he dominates the ball and our offense is at a standstill. There were a couple of moments last night where mason was open yet parker took a 19ft jump shot. When m,anu came back he didn't force things rather he let them come to him. TP decides that he is going to dominate the ball like old times.
Thanks for the game thoughts, timvp.
As I watched this game, I kept getting the feeling that the Spurs felt a sense of en lement. A false sense of en lement. The Pistons' 2nd unit was extremely tough defensively and they totally discombobulated the flow. The Spurs did their share to stink it up but Stuckey, Afflalo, and Johnson were particularly impressive. Stuckey got away with lots bumps and knocking people off the ball but hey, it worked. Afflalo disrupted many a play, getting up into guys and blowing up side screen-roll plays. He dislodged or blocked the ball several times.
It would have been nice if Hill could have matched Stuckey's play but he didn't and Pop didn't give him a chance in the 2nd half to redeem himself.
I'm still not sure why Pop didn't play Kurt and why he skipped resting Timmy until the 2nd quarter. Kurt was superglued to the bench.
The Spurs shot the ball with no rhythm and it was basically a clankfest. Very similar look and feel to the Denver flush.
I put a lot of the blame on Pop for this loss. The players are the ones who are suppose to go out and execute. However, the lineups Pop sent out there were very questionable.
Thank god somebody else finally said it.Repeat: Vaughn. Is. Not. The. Answer.
Yeah, I'm glad the guy was able to not screw up our 2007 championship, but beyond that Vaughn is a perennial disappointment.
And this seems like one of the worst games Pop has coached in a while. From the starting lineup to the closing seconds, there was questionable decision after questionable decision.
I know he's got new toys to play with, but jeez....
exactly, he is like a kid in a toys R us the day before X-mas
Parker
Mason
Bowen
Duncan
Thomas
would be the best starting lineup IMO.
+1000000 !
please God let me be wrong about Ginobilli's ankle.
Your kidding right?
Everyone has said that for the past couple years. Christ pay attention.
yea he looks a little bad.
kinda reminds me of how he played last year against the Lakers in the playoffs.
hopefully he just needs to get loose.
Looked like Pop wanted to beat Detroit with offense for some reason. He started the (potentially) best scorer at each position:
Parker
Ginobili
Finley
Bonner
Duncan
I would go back to basics for a while (depending on matchups, of course) with:
Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Duncan
Oberto
Hill
Mason
Finley
Bonner
Thomas
This gets the old Championship winning end-of-game crew back up to speed with each other and lets the Hill/Mason combo be aggressive instead of deferring to the big three.
Last edited by zepn; 12-03-2008 at 12:28 PM.
Another good summary.
I, too, was puzzled at why Pop though JV would be the answer in the 2nd half. If Pop was upset about Hill being passive in his 6 minutes of action, he should've bench the entire team. Hill deserved another shot, as he's proven that he does respond well when challenged.
I'm still waiting for somebody to come to his defense for his 'consistency' and 'ability to lead the team'.
Yeah, his ability to consistently lead the team into the ground.
It's good to see you giving my boy Matt Bonner props...it looked to me like he was one of the best players on the court last night, inspite of his shooting.
Matt Bonner
25 minutes, five points, nine rebounds
2-for-8 from the field, 1-for-5 on three-pointers
Matt Bonner leapfrogged Fabricio Oberto to start at center. Bonner responded by having one of his worst shooting games of the season. I thought his shot selection was questionable a few times when he launched shots with Wallace running out on him. The good news is that Bonner did a fine job defensively and on the boards. He was one of the few Spurs players that was physical down low and it was great to see him rebounding the ball well. In his current stretch of good play, his rebounding numbers had started to drop as his shooting percentages rose.
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And since Bonner is the type that will beat himself up over missing shots and likely go into a funk over it...him missing those shots is not as big of a negative as him continuing to take them is a positive.
George Hill
Six minutes, two rebounds
George Hill was the definition of passiveness in his six minutes of action in the first half. On offense, he failed to do much of anything other than bring the ball up and pass it off. I can’t remember even one instance where he attacked. He let the Pistons pressure him to take the ball out of his hands and deferred completely to Ginobili when paired with him. Defensively, he wasn’t doing anything to negate his non-existent offensive play. All that said, I though Pop should have given him another shot in the second half. Giving him the Beno Treatment isn’t going to do anything to help him figure out how to play now that the cavalry has arrived. Hill has to realize that even if he’s on the court with David Robinson, George Gervin, Sean Elliott and James Silas he must play aggressively and act like he’s the best player on the floor. When he’s in attack mode, he’s a very good player. When he plays like Jacque Vaughn’s younger brother, he’s not.
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Massivw fail...after all these years timvp still attempts to excuse Pop's military style at ude conditioning as justified because of poor play on the part of the player...6 minutes isn't enough to do anything.
I've seen Duncan flat out stink his first 6 minutes and be completely passive, probably 300 times in his career...he doesn't get that hook like many others do.
George Hill was passive yes, in extremely limited playing time...George Hill did not get minutes to find out if he would have continued being passive...Pop did not let him.
He was no more passive than hundreds of other players are at times during every NBA game day...Pop just wants an attack dog. Acting like the quick hook was justified because of horrendous play, and not Pop's controlling style, is hilarious...as it always has been.
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