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The reptilian brain
Perusing some blogs, I came across an argument between a leftist and a liberal religious person about human nature. The religious person made the statement that there is a universal human condition wherein humans tend to be selfish, tribal, and cruel. The leftist rejected this as right-wing propaganda and claimed instead that most instances of human cruelty are the result of Western culture and capitalism. He believed that had European civilization not spread around the globe, most people of the earth would live in peace and harmony with one another and with nature. He claimed that any instance of a non-European person acting in a selfish or cruel way reflects the contamination of Westernism upon that person's culture, and that person would not act that way had he never met white people.
The leftist went on to say that if only Western culture, capitalism, and monotheistic religion could be destroyed, the people of the earth could once again live in peace, harmony, and eco-balance.
The religious person thought this was absurd, and starting listing every other major non-Western civilization he could think of, and the ways, do ented by anthropologists, in which people in those civilization acted towards one another selfishly, tribally, and cruelly, and challenged the leftist to come up with any society that behaved otherwise.
The leftist replied that the anthropologists were contaminated with Western cultural propaganda inherent in the academy, and that since Westerners had wiped out so many civilizations, and corrupted so much history, that there was no way to prove whether perfect societies existed; if they had existed, they would have been easily wiped out by warmongering white people. He then suggested that Australian aboriginies might be close to the ideal.
I am curious whether this particular leftist was just extremely bat insane, or whether his views actually represent a significant cross-section of leftist thought.
The reptilian brain
By the way, where does PITA stand on Chimp-on-Chimp violence and murder?
Sounds like Rousseau vs Hobbes for dummies
That worked pretty well in China, I hear.The leftist went on to say that if only Western culture, capitalism, and monotheistic religion could be destroyed, the people of the earth could once again live in peace, harmony, and eco-balance.
"Leftist" is the wrong label here. Maybe nihilist.
Bat insane. But yes, I know of one or two other lefties who are bat insane.
The only argument that can be made is that European culture is not very good at establishing an equilibrium with its surroundings, as do most primitive cultures. (By maintaining an equilibrium, I mean not wiping out too many resources, to maintain self-sufficiency.) Even then, I can't imagine trying to make a strong argument out of it.
Uhhh, bat insane. Mankind's predilection for violence and brutality extends well beyond (relatively) neo-geocultural classifications.
How one could even attempt to argue otherwise is an indictment on their persona and evidence to their ignorance.
There is only one answer for World peace. God. If everyone found God (I mean the real God, the Christian God, not one of these fake Gods) there would be complete and absolute world peace. Christians don't believe in war. God teaches us to love everyone unconditionally. Christians are peaceful people. Christians avoid killing or hurting people at all costs. If someone slaps us, we turn the other cheek, because that is what we learned from our savior, Jesus Christ.
angel luv, is that you?
I guess the whole world is composed of noble savages except for European monotheists or anybody *contaminated* by the same. It bodes ill for the state of nature IMO that it shrivels and dies wherever it comes into contact with actually existing human culture.
Beat me to it.
just out of morbid curiosity, if I understand this correctly, this is basically a staunch democrat arguing with a more open liberal saying that he has fallen for right wing propaganda?
and honestly, if someone blogs that most instances of human cruelty are the result of western culture and capitalism, it's really not worth reading beyond the blog le, let alone starting a thread over here asking if there is any validity to his(her) claim.
If this were a game of logical fallacy poker, you would have a very strong hand. You have a double strawman with a non-sequitur kicker -- you answered an argument I did not make with an argument Christianity does not make, and it has nothing to do with the thread to begin with!
It was a liberal blog, and these were two commenters. Of course, one usually gets the fair share of incoherent twits who can't use English on any blog including leftie ones, but this person seemed coherent. It fits caricatures righties make of lefties. I was surprised to read the walking, breathing caricature.
I just couldn't tell how many people think like that. There is a poster who frequents this forum who fits every caricature of the gun-hoarding rural Western nativist conservative crank, yet his views are not all that uncommon on the right; maybe 5% of the population thinks somewhere along the lines he does.
The answer lie somewhere in between. I think the semi-correct answer is summed up nicely by the phrase, most persons are fundamentally good, people are fundamentally evil.
I don't think the crazy leftist was right, but I do think humanity, under the right conditions, has at least some capacity for more tolerance, compassion and peace. Some groups more than others. But the notion that humanity's flaws are somehow a western invention, is ridiculous. We aren't helping too much, but original sin dates back a whole lot further than the rise of capitalism. IMO.
Bat insane.
There is a pronounced tendency by the idiots on the left who are the intellectual equivalent of some of our worst right-wingers here, who see Western culture as somehow inherently flawed because of past colonial abuses.
There are those on the right for whom Western culture can do, and haven't done, any wrong, just as there are those on the left for whom Western Culture is a total bugaboo.
I don't think they represent a majority. How big of a minority they are is more unclear. My gut says: Not a large one.
It seems to be a closely-held belief on the part of many on the right that the US has never done anything *really* bad, and they really resent any implication to the contrary. I would say that is part of the definition of the right.
On the other side of the spectrum, you have the left who do not adhere to that.
This obviously includes both those who take what I consider a realistic view and acknowledge that our culture/civilization isn't without blemish, and as with anything, there is a full spectrum of opinion all the way up to the leftish idiot you were reading about.
Of my leftish friends, most fall into the "fairly realistic" category, if that helps.
They're both wrong. The leftist is wrong in thinking cruelty, selfishness and tribalism is unique to (and propagated by) "Western Culture". The religious liberal is wrong in assuming cruelty, selfishness and tribalism represents the sum total of human nature. Human nature is a kluge of instincts that can be complementary or contradictory depending on cir stances or the innate preferences of the individual.
Respectuflly:
He wasn't asking if there was any validity to the claim, he was asking about the pervasiveness of the claim, i.e. how widely held is it on the left?
WH23 thanks you for the new word.
too...
many...
syllables...
Try this one:
Klieg light
The indigenous megafauna that were wiped out shortly after the arrival of the aboriginies arrival to Australia might beg to differ.
It's also spelled with a "d":
I got lucky.A kludge (or kluge) is a workaround, an ad hoc engineering solution, a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem, typically using parts that are cobbled together.
Kludges are particularly widespread in computer programs, where processing speed is such that they may not make a big difference in performance.
Completely ing re ed. Its not a human nature thing, its an animalistic thing that most primates display.
BTW - best post ever.
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