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Why couldn't the Spurs just sign Finley for a cheap 1 year contract to solve the problem?
Just a theory. (born from off season boredom)
Most, if not all the wise guys on this board have agreed, that we won't see any more moves this summer.
(if we see another move, it will be a minor or minimum player move)
Spurs will evaluate what the current roster can do, if the young players can take bigger roles, how Manu looks and if he's 100%, how RJ and Dice fit, etc.
but at deadline 2010 they will try to land a quality wing. here's why:
we learned that there is a good chance they can bring Tiago 2010, because then he is no longer bound to the rookie scale and his buyout can easily be managed by giving him a market value contract. (likely something like 3 years 12 million). this move is to improtant for the Spurs future to not make it a priority.
but this also means, most of the MLE will be spent and there is little chance to acquire a quality player via free agency.
on the other hand, the only (regular) wing under contract will be Jefferson.
of course, we all hope that Manu will be a: healthy again and b: re signed to a reasonable contract. (3years/20 million?). but there is no guarantee to either a and b.
Mason might be extended, but if he again doesn't deliver next PO, he will have to take a significant pay cut and maybe he isn't willing to do this and leaves.
Finley will retire or just not re signed, anything else is very unlikely.
Hairston might be ready to get a role in the regular rotation, but there is no guarantee.
conclusion: Spurs need to trade for a quality wing who either has a contract till at least 2011, or who has an expiring contract, but brings bird rights with him.
if the Spurs don't make this move, they might find themself in a pretty big dilemma and might need to sacrifice Tiago to stay compe ive.
most sense makes a move of Finley for the mentioned wing player, a package could be increased with Ratliff, Ian, Bonner, Hairston (+picks or rights for Gist, DeColo, McClinton).
another package (maybe more attractive for some teams) replaces Finley with Mason as the cornerstone. the Spurs won't trade for another player in the 10million per year range (except they see that Manu is done), so we should forget about another Sjax discussion.
who could be a realistic target should be point of the discussion.
Why couldn't the Spurs just sign Finley for a cheap 1 year contract to solve the problem?
they could sign Finley or as many veterans like Finley to as many veteran minimum contracts as they want, I'm not sure that this will compensate for the possible lack of a starter quality wing player.
Wouldn't that be the same depth as this year though?
SF: RJ, Finley, ...
Rudy F. ?
would be fantastic, but I really can't see the Blazers help us.
Very good point indeed.
Assuming the Spurs resign Manu and continue spending way above the lux tax until 2011, or ever 2012, it would make sense to look for a wing by the trade deadline, however, how likely would it be to take on another big ( or relatively big ) post-2010 contract? Obviously, the way to get this prototypical wing would be a salary dump trade with a non-contender at the trade deadline, which shrinks the possibilities a bit.
I'm more inclined to expect them to look for another solid and no so expensive player, like Mason, who could be the 3rd wing next season, and make resigning Manu and getting Splitter the priorities. Someone like Keith Bogans maybe, even though he had a bad year. Ideally, that'd be Hairston or Marcus Williams if they develop.
There's also the possibility that Jefferson doesn't fit and could be traded at some point but all in all, if thigns work out OK, the only pressing need for next season would be that 3rd wing and your suggestion to look for someone available as early as the trade deadline makes a lot of sense.
I dont understand why so much attention is given to wing-players when its obvious we need a 7footer in the lane to block shots and help Tim get rebounds. The game, as much as it has changed over the years is still won in the paint. Therefore we need 2 big men not Tim/Undersized C. Tim doesn't like playing Center, yet the spurs have continued to get little big-men, Like there there faking Tim into thinking someone is playing next to him when in actuality he doing all the work of a Center.
take some time and read what the basic thought of this thread is about.
(that the signing of Spitter 2010 is the off season priority)
last time I checked Splitter was considered a 7 footer.
Maybe I missed it, I was under the impression that 2010 trade deadline meant this coming Feb 2010. was i right, or are they talking about the deadline in the 2010-11 season?
It's nice to see a reasonable thread for trades in this sea of crazy trade ideas. You could be way off, but at least you have think about it and not base your entire post on "I like this guy so we better get him!" or the alternate "I hate this guy so we need to trade him!".
The 2 if's you mention decide the next 5 years of the franchise or maybe even more. If Manu can't play as we all want him to play changes a lot of the needs for this team and makes a lot of difference of how much money is available for other players. The same happens with Tiago, if he doesn't come next year, we could be facing a mayor rebuilding after Timmy retires. We may not have anyone from our current roster by then because I don't see a veteran Parker staying to start all over either by personal choice or the team's.
There's been multiple discussions on this subject in previous trade threads.
no there hasn't
We need somebody big that can keep pressure of Tim, that is the key to resting him.
I'd have to say I'm leaning with you (mountainballer) on the idea of a wing/`stopper' being the target at the deadline, if a trade is to be done. I'm not married to it but, at this point, it seems to make a lot of sense.
The reason I'm not completely married to the idea, however, is the type of wing they'd like to add to the group.
While Manu's presence next year isn't an inevitable, the probability would seem to be pretty good. And with RJ and Manu on the roster, you'd be looking for a `stopper' and probably a spot-up shooter to fill out the wing. Players, that, when you look at the Spurs' history, don't necessarily come at too high a price.-- ie. Bowen as a `stopper' and any random vet. min./low-cost spot-up shooter the Spurs have employed.--
So, I think from past posts we've both made, we pretty much agree that the `stopper' and the defensive-5 remain the positions of question; a trade for one of the two at the deadline would seem to at least be the most likely. But I'm just not sure we know enough about the team and the options available to know which one, if any, it will be at this point.
Splitter's arrival next year could definitely sway their thinking, with him taking most of the MLE, but no one ever really es about having too many quality bigs.
I guess it comes down to: 1.) What's the more pressing need, the wing or a `big' come mid-season; 2.) What's the best value obtainable; 3.) Is there a market to find an underappreciated/lesser-known player to bring in on the cheap to defend, ala Bowen; and maybe the most important of all; 4.) What's Holt's plan for the luxury-tax moving forward?
I feel pretty comfortable that Ginobili will be re-signed, Splitter will finally be signed, and RJ won't be getting traded, I'm just not sure, not just yet, what that means for the upcoming year...
As far as trading for a "quality" wing at the deadline, there will probably be very few options. Most of the good players on decent contracts(i.e. Salmons, Sefolosha) are probably going to be unattainable for obvious reasons. Depending on our cir stances at the time, here are the possible options.
If Mason is playing well enough to hold on to, then we do our best to talk Larry Brown out of Raja Bell. He would be a great move to shore up our bench and he could be had for Bonner/Finley. He is a good perimeter defender and though he has not looked like the same player he used to be, I think he would excel in our system.
If Mason is not looking good, then it gets tricky. We either take on a player with a less than desirable contract or pick up a player that might be just as hit and miss. I know it's widely assumed that Jack is not an option, but I think the FO might take a hard look if they think that all the money they spent this offseason to win might not be enough. Financially it would suck...and I know that the OP disagrees with me...but from a player standpoint he would instantly make us better. He is long, versatile, fearless and he knows our star players and the system.
I know that it would seem that all is lost if Manu goes down...but there is a bit of a ray of light, and that would be Rip Hamilton. Of all the options I have looked at this one would make the most sense for several reasons if Manu got hurt and we seriously considered moving him to stay in the hunt. Firstly, Rip is a perfect fit. He is a good defender and he would get plenty of open looks to utilize his deadly midrange game. He is 31, but he keeps himself in excellent condition and he is not an overly physical player...so he should still be able to produce at a high level over the next few seasons. From a numbers standpoint, it works out pretty good for both teams. Rip will make 12.5mil guaranteed in both 2010/11 and 2011/12, but the last year of his contract is only partially guaranteed...so he could be valuable in a trade if we felt like we needed to move him after Duncan retires. With Detroit seemingly heading in a different direction at SG by signing Ben Gordon to a big contract, they might want to find a taker for Rip to create even more cap space for 2010. Moving Rip could put them under 44 million...which would make them a player on the big name market.
All in all, I hope that Mason plays well and and we can somehow convince LB to trade Bell. Otherwise we are probably going with what we have and hope for the best.
ginoboli extention will be MLE...take it or leave it...
This has been true for years ...even when Oberto was the center all the other guys did was take fouls ...in the clutch Duncan always plays center plays center on offense i don't know who he or th Spurs FO is fooling. Besides that as he gets older he can not gaurd quicker PF's the blake griffin's, Amare's, Bosh Aldridge etc are not good matchups for him. the centers in the league are either old injured or young and are much better matchups for tim Spurs FO is corrrect it's easier to find a good PF than a center and that is what is needed on the team anyway Tim is a center
Side note say 2nd dream team vs. USA Select team when Duncan was in college a couple of notes:
1. Tim struggled with shaq inside deep, but even then showed more versatility and range to his game ...than Shaq how evensome Spur fans think shaq even in his MVP year is better than duncan is crazy!!
2. They only beat the college guys by 6 Duncan, brevin knight Shane seals (who?, LOL) billups Pierce and Croshere made Payton, shaq Robisnon, etc look silly/
3. That Dream TEAM actually had more talent BUT i still thin the '92 squad was better chemistry, supers om and co-hesiveness were all better
By the way I like the spurs chance this year All my fellow Laker fans are worried about Portland and cavs I keep my eyes on the prize only SA and Celts can (have a chance) stop us if we are healthy
agree about Bell. we need to keep an eye on Gerald Henderson. if he contributes right away (I can see he will, he looks NBA ready) but the Bobcats are early out of the PO race (I can also see this happen), the Bobcats will be very open to talk about Bell, because they can assume that he would leave in the 2010 summer to join a contender anyhow.
they will want to get something out of this (picks in the first place). would he be worth the 2011 1st round pick? tough call, but I think yes. if the Spurs get Splitter on the roster and with Hill and Blair (maybe still Ian) they can afford to use a future 1st rounder IMO.
(the 2010 they need to use anyhow)
If splitter does not come over, our front court is going to be too old next year...we might be too old this year, but at least we have some depth.
With Manu, it really depends on how well he does this year whether the team is willing to try to get another very good player...if there is a great, great deal out there for a salary dump, MAYBE.
Certainly, we will consider what the need is at the deadline, and will be ready to pull the trigger...but no telling if that is for a sf, sg, c, backup pg...what...
I agree. Over the next few seasons first round picks don't have a lot of value for the Spurs. They lock up guaranteed money that could be used on a free agent that could help now. Taking our current situation into consideration, I would give up the pick in a heartbeat to get Bell.
I agree, I don't see them offering any more. He still owes the franchise for the past 2 yrs.
I don't think the FO will be looking that far ahead. They'll have Manu penciled in for next season but they could work a sign and trade if they don't want him anymore and he wants to stay in the NBA (that could happen with any of the free agents), otherwise there are cheaper players and draft picks as options too. I can see their making a trade for a wing this season if everyone sucks and/or is injured.
Exactly ^
If they re-sign Finley (or a cheap option like him), Mason and Gino they will have the same depth as this year. If all of the new guys/rookies suck, they will go a different direction. But as for now, the problem you describe is the same problem they have this year. They have their starter in RJ.
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