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One word:
I'm having a semi-heated discussion with somebody. Our discussion is about Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett.
My stance is when it's all said and Tim Duncan will be the better player in the end.
Reasons for this...
More les
More playoff series wins
Can actually carry his team past the first round
His stance, KG is the better player
Reasons for this..
Better defender
If KG was on the Spurs they'd have won more than two les.
I contend that if Duncan was on the Wolves right now, they'd be no lower than the 5th seed in the playoffs. He disagrees.
Discuss.
One word:
Again?
TD>KG
To me, the skills/number cancel each other out.
In the case of a tie, rings always win.
If you need another tiebreaker, though, how about locker-room presence/leadership abilities. If a team always takes on the character of it's best player/leader, what does that say about KG, and what does that say about Duncan?
Duncan wins.
Discussion over.
(at least until the next one)
Duncan has been on 6 all-defensive teams, KG 5.Better defender
How can anyone argue that KG has gotten anything other than inconsequential numbers this year? If your numbers don't equate to wins, what makes that great? Garnett can't even show up to win a crucial game against Atlanta. Duncan scores when he needs to, this year more than ever. People argue that somehow KG is more passionate than Duncan, when actually he's just more overt and demonstrative. Again, gaudy numbers don't a great player make IMO.
Saying "if KG were on the Spurs" is sort of pointless since most people were calling Minnesota the most talented team in the league at the beginning of the year.
I don't even think SickDSM can defend KG after the year he's had this season.
This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read on this board. Which is saying a lot.
You say Garnett didn't show up vs. ATL. So 31 points (on 14 FGA), 12 REB, 7 Assists, 1 STL, 1 BLK and 1 TO is "not showing up?"
And whoever was calling Minnesota "the most talented team" is an idiot. Excluding Garnett, Minnesota doesn't have one single player that would start for the Spurs.
KG is a 7 foot Jump shooter that can create off the dribble...
He doesn't make defenses work like TD does.
First off, grow up. This is a discussion about sports, and you aren't the only one with observations. You take this way too seriously.
Who won the Atlanta game? Go get your dictionary and look up "inconsequential" and "gaudy". I never said KG wasn't producing stats, I'm just saying that if they don't translate to wins, he ain't the MVP, and he certainly isn't better than Duncan.
I didn't call Minnesota the most talented team, but the ESPN guys did at the beginning of the year. I never mentioned that I didn't agree with the observation, but your calling them idiots with the benefit of hindsight is a little silly.
Last edited by Obstructed_View; 04-15-2005 at 04:31 PM.
No more excuses can be made for Garnett. He had enough talent around him this year to at least make the WCF and he won't even be in the playoffs:
Hudson and Cassel seemed like a deadly combo at point guard, Wally can be one of the best shooter around the league, Spreewel has enough left to be a 3rd offensive weapon and the role players have more than average talent (Griffin, Hoiberg, Olowokandi...)
Truth is Minesota ed its season because Garnett did not lead the team.
He let Cassel and Spreewell suck all the season and he started complaining about his teamates just like Kobe did.
This guy played with a lot of good players and he never seemed able to win a le, he never proved that he was able to be the leader of a championship team.
Duncan and him are just not in the same level.
ALmost every Hall of Fame player in the history of the NBA has had one or two seasons where his team posted an underwhelming record and missed the post season.
Of course, Tim Duncan is one of those that has not. So if we're comparing the two...
agreed. that is why I have always said that KG is the better athlete, but TD is the better basketball player.KG is a 7 foot Jump shooter that can create off the dribble...
He doesn't make defenses work like TD does.
what argument? hes not even in the playoffs !!
Duncan owns Garnett
Let's count up the rings, shall we?
Start with Tim: One...Two...
If the count ends there
Then the arguement ends there
TD owns KG
Rings don't always win
But with players so well matched
It breaks the tie well.
oh yeah...then there is that playoff thing.
We have heard from a lot of Wolves fans that Garnett by himself could get Minny to the playoffs (since the one and dones all those years) but last year was supposed to be the turning point. Looks like they turned the wrong way.
I used to defend KG even though I didn't really like him...but this season is pretty much is indefensible.
First of all, I don't judge him by his 1st round failures...he hasn't had teams anywhere near as good as Duncan in the playoffs...and he didn't have David Robnson to take the toughest defensive assignment as well as keep a defender at home.
The playoff argument is really lame though IMO, because if you have a one man team that fact will be exposed in the post season series where two teams get real familiar with each other...if you only have one dimension to your team, a good opponent will take that dimension away....Take Manu and Parker off this team and we are probably looking at a first round exit ourselves.
That rule does not apply to the regular season though....82 games without teams playing each other on a night to night basis...the defense played is much more traditional and less focused on stopping one man...
KG's inability to carry his team to the playoffs is a huge blackmark on his career....although Kareem, Hakeem and Wilt also have that same mark, the difference between KG and them though is that they never failed to make the playoffs with the core of a conference finalist...but it is what it is...you have a very talented team that is going to wind up in the lottery, and just like KG gets most of the credit for the wins...he gets most of the blame for the lottery trip.
KG's career had reminded me of David Robinson's up until this season...An incredibly versatile athlete capable of hauling weak teams to the playoffs every year with little more help than the athletes's ability to do everything....
But last season and this season have changed everything...he's not in Drob's league as a team carrier....
Statistically Garnett is a stud...but this season we see his stats don't always translate to wins...
Add to that the fact that a lot of Garnett's teamates seem to end up hating him...
Duncan is clearly the choice two make of these two comparably talented bigmen...if only for his ability to unite.
As for Duncan...Duncan still has a great team...
But I think he could have gotten KG's team to the playoffs this year...
I will say one thing about KG though...I see an attempt by many to gloss him as soft or not a true bigman...
Well he may not have Duncan's ability to score on the block(and who in the does)...but he is a beast rebounder, and he is a strong perimeter player...better than Duncan and Robinson in the area of rebounding IMO...and that's a key area for a bigman.
If I have to choose between the two I take Duncan of course...I am not convinced he is more talented than KG, is harder, or has more heart,...but he is definitely a better franchise player and leader.
Last edited by whottt; 04-15-2005 at 04:56 PM.
Duff...here are some numbers for your buddy....
KG-20.3ppg, 11rpg, 1.7bpg, 4.5apg, 1.4spg 49%FG, 77%FT
TD-22.6ppg, 12rpg, 2.5bpg, 3.1apg, .79spg, 51%FG, 69%FT
Its close but Duncan wins.
I would agree with Whottt....KG is a lot of things, but soft is not one of them, IMO.
I would have to say TD mainly because I am a Spurs fan...and though I like his fiery at ude on the court(usually)...there is also a lot about KGs personality I don NOT like (hitting his own teamates and such...and some of the talking I have heard he does is innapropriate..such as what he supposedly said to Tim after his Dads death).
That being said....I wouldn't take the Wolves losses this year as a sign of KG being a bad player.
That dude has put up some rediculous numbers this year.
I am very perplexed how they keep losing because even in the bad losses..if you look at the box scores...KG almost always has really great stats.
Its just a chemistry thing I guess. Which of course adds more points to Duncan than KG because I think TD is much better for team chemistry than KG is.
I would trade big dog + barry and filler for kg
"I would trade"
Isn't KG making $30M or something this year?
$16 million. At the end of his last contract he took a paycut.
Duncan > Garnett
Duncan wins more, and more than any other player in the league, he can greatly impact a game and lead his team to a win without scoring 20+ points.
Let's brake it down:
Offense:
Tim: Tim is by far the better low post player, he draws more double teams, is stronger, and turns the ball over less than Garnett. He also has a better FG %.
Garnett: KG has a much better perimeter game, but that takes away from his teammates from getting involved. I'm not going to say that Garnett is a better passer because although he may get more assists, the T'Wolves draw up the plays so he can make those passes. When Tim gets doubled, usually he will kick it out to someone who will then dish to the open player.
Defense:
Tim: Tim is the better shot blocker, and has been on the All-Defensive team 6 times. Tim plays the pick and roll better than most big men; he pressures the player who comes off the screen to impede the player's progress, then he quickly goes back to his own man. If you guys didn't notice, while Tim was gone our pick and roll defense sucked.
Garnett: KG is better at stealing the ball, but not when it comes to help defense. He has 5 All-Defenseive selections.
Intangibles:
Tim: well this category isn't even close. Tim draws the double teams which allows his teammates to involve themselves in the game more. Tim is a winner. He has 2 championship rings and has lead his team to the best record in the league 2 seasons in the Shaq & Kobe era. He truly is the heart & soul of the Spurs.
Garnett: Well, 7 straight 1st round exits until he finally got to the WCF, but now his team won't even have to worry about another 1st round exit as they won't even make the playoffs.
It's pretty close, but Duncan wins through better D and the intangibles.
Let's see about KG
0 rings + 2 playoff series wins in 9 years = KG Sucks
^^^^^^^^^
I would like to know what he said too. I saw a flashback clip of Duncan and Garnett jawing at each other on Telemundo last year but I couldn't understand what the the announcers were saying.
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