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OPen more offense for RJ and stop playing Finley and let Hairston play more to develop him as a defensive stopper
Pop tinkering with Spurs' chemistry
Mike Monroe
The Spurs went into their first road game of the season Thursday with a plan that featured two-time MVP Tim Duncan in a more prominent scoring role than he had played in a season-opening victory over the Hornets the previous night.
Duncan had played only 21 minutes in Wednesday's home opener, none of which were logged in the fourth quarter, when the Spurs' bench put the finishing touches on a convincing blowout. He was rested and ready and facing a Bulls front line without a recognized defensive menace.
With 5:29 left in the first half at Chicago's United Center, Duncan had scored 10 points, but his teammates were struggling, so coach Gregg Popovich went with a small lineup that featured Duncan on the floor with Tony Parker, George Hill, Manu Ginobili and Michael Finley.
“We put the small lineup out there to try to generate some offense,” Popovich said. “It worked as well as my initial game plan: not very well.”
The first month of the season for a reshaped roster is going to include nights like Wednesday, when the Spurs looked like a team experimenting to determine the best means of optimizing talent.
Thursday's lab exercise produced that rotten egg smell, a 92-85 loss.
Developing chemistry though the first months of the season is nothing new for Popovich, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili, who have been together since 2002. The Spurs always have looked to build towards the second half of the season. Typically, they have found high gear by February's annual rodeo road trip, speeding to a strong finish.
This season, with six new players, Popovich tossed a lot of pages out of one of the NBA's thickest playbooks to speed the process.
Newcomers are finding there are no Cliff's Notes for learning the Spurs' systems.
“We've got a lot of work to do, a lot of stuff to put in,” Duncan said. “We've got to get used to one another on the floor. We've got to learn how to play small lineups and to play big lineups and how to mix and match, back and forth, so we can play teams like the Bulls. We've got to be able to switch it up and get some experience with those different lineups and different situations.
“That's what we need, and we always use the 82-game season just for that. We don't expect to have it down in these first 10 games. We're going to work hard at it, and that's the mind-set we're going to want all season.”
Early losses have been tolerated in past seasons in the interest of getting things right for the stretch run.
This season, competing in a more compe ive Western Conference puts a greater emphasis on winning. More than at any time since Parker joined the team in 2001 and found himself in the starting lineup six games into the season, a quick start is a team goal.
“We're trying to do that,” Popovich said. “I think it's important, because we've got to force-feed a lot of new guys, so I don't think we can ease into things. It's not going to be like when Parker was a rookie, but for guys like DeJuan Blair and George Hill, we've got to have them come along more quickly. Antonio (McDyess) and Richard (Jefferson) have to learn what's going on more quickly.
“We want it to be at a faster pace, because the West is so good that you don't want to get in a quick hole. It's too difficult to pull yourself out of that these days, so we think we need a quick start.”
OPen more offense for RJ and stop playing Finley and let Hairston play more to develop him as a defensive stopper
Pop admitted the game plan to be ineffective, everyone learned it didn't work. Everyone also learned that this is a work in progress. Wait we already knew that last one. Well, this forum didn't, but everyone else did. Sweet
That's good to hear that he views it as a priority for Blair to come along quickly. It means he has no intention of letting what happened with Hill last year happen to DeJuan; I just wish Hairston was involved in that same thought process..It's not going to be like when Parker was a rookie, but for guys like DeJuan Blair and George Hill, we've got to have them come along more quickly.
I've said from the beginning this was going to be a year along the lines of '03 and '04 because of the turnover, so the growing pains aren't any kind of surprise; it's absolutely unavoidable.
We saw a glimpse of what this team could be in stretches against the Hornets but it's going to take time to see them playing at full-strength.
Whether that full-strength will be enough to accomplish their number-one goal, I have my doubts. But they should be closer to the point-differential of year's past and have an opportunity to tweak the roster with the assets they have to find that missing piece, if needed.
The sucky thing is he's too stubborn to learn from it.“We put the small lineup out there to try to generate some offense,” Popovich said. “It worked as well as my initial game plan: not very well.”
What didn't work, Pop, is playing Bonner against a lineup of 6' 9" and over gazelles.
What also didn't work is expecting Finley to play NBA level basketball on either end of the floor this year. If he couldn't last year or the year before, I see no reason why this year would be any different.
The most annoying part about it is guys like Bonner and Finley are both lights out shooters... two of the better spot up shooters in the league - but starting them negates nearly all of that, because they are on the floor at the same time as the oppositions best players/scorers - giving up nearly as much as they score.
This is actually not a bad observation.
That's my biggest concern with this whole thing, sure, Bonner spaces the floor, sure Finley can hit open shots, but they should not be against opposing starting line-ups...
When you can not score, it's probably not because there aren't enough scorers on court, sometimes you should try to strengthen the defense and wait for the end of the offense drought. But obviously with this lineup on court, team easily got outrebounded by Bulls, and the energy then went even worse. That's why we looked like the same team that sucked on D last year.With 5:29 left in the first half at Chicago's United Center, Duncan had scored 10 points, but his teammates were struggling, so coach Gregg Popovich went with a small lineup that featured Duncan on the floor with Tony Parker, George Hill, Manu Ginobili and Michael Finley.
It seems that for Pop, "tinkering with the chemistry" most often means giving Finley extended minutes.
Should have thrown a mix of Malik and Hill at Rose. Too bad Malik isn't activated. Bowen's defense is sorely missed. You don't know how important it is to have a guy who can effectively slow down the Star on an opposing team until well you don't have one..
I don't think it was as bad as it looked though overall. The Bulls were just pumped for their opener and had a great shooting night. While the Spurs struggled to make anything.
Bowen definitely deserves to have his jersey retired as a Spur.
Pop's plan of playing all the old veterans and non-athletic guys like Bonner against Derrick Rose and all those young energy guys on the bulls seemed to backfire. On a back to back no less.
Whodathunk?
That small lineup has "outmatched" written all over it. At least against any team with size and talent. No amount of three's would make up for the lost rebounds, weak positioning in boxing out/giving up size, making Duncan work harder on boards, etc. And with 5 minutes leading into the half? You have Duncan out there with Parker, 6-6 Ginobili, our second year backup point, and 36 year old Finley playing SF/PF. How has that kind of lineup crept it's way into our playbook even after retooling the team?
If that Bulls game was, say, "Experiment Pt. 1", I'm hoping pt. 2 against Sacramento includes more DeJuan Blair (around 20 mpg), more Malik Hairston, and one of Bogans or Haislip getting a crack at minutes. Sacramento, with tall quick guards in Martin and Evans, would be a good test for Hairston, Bogans, and Hill (imo). While our next two away games, Utah and Portland, should be good tests for our frontcourt. Playing the Bulls was a tricky second game I think, with 6-9 Deng/Thomas and athletic Noah really out-hustling us on their court, but as time goes by we'll see which lineups work and don't work. I hope McDyess is playing at least 25 mpg ten games from now, he should be capable of it, and his 5-10 rpg on top of Blairs rebounding should help.
Exactly. Only excuse is that it's the 2nd game of the season. But if we don't see progress along the lines of bringing the new/retooled elements of our team forward PDQ I'm gonna be disappointed. My fear is that Pop will be too conservative, rigid and micromanage-ry when it comes to the new additions, and will slip back into Finley-mode by default. We've seen it before.You have Duncan out there with Parker, 6-6 Ginobili, our second year backup point, and 36 year old Finley playing SF/PF. How has that kind of lineup crept it's way into our playbook even after retooling the team?
When simplifying the playbook didn't work in the game vs. the Bulls, Pop decided to take the direct approach to instill the Spurs' system in his players..
Well in a nuts what we're witnessing is a bad coach making bad decisions with what should be a good damn team.
What does this mean? Pop is a uva GM, but lousy coach.
We must be stupid here on ST because I think a lot of fans agree with your comments, but apparently POP tells us to STFU and continues to start the Findog and Redrocket, sadly.
...and don't forget to mention the other negative impact about both their games - they're both weak on the defensive end. Teams literally go at them and take advantage of their lack of footspeed and quickness. Neither is able to keep their man in front of them. They're also not very good rebounders. Consequently, if Bonner or Finley are not shooting "lights out", their on-court value is pretty nil.
Last edited by SenorSpur; 10-31-2009 at 10:23 AM.
Man... what a sad state of affairs. I mean the guy was still on the floor during garbage time.
Couldn't we have at least played Bogans to see what he's got?
I think to start the games this is not so much an issue if at least one of them is hitting their shots.
Problem is...as you pointed out...if neither is hitting their shot then the defensive liability will help the cause of an opponent to build a significant lead.
Asking our "inexperienced" players to stop the bleeding much less bring the team to at least a tie situation is asking a bit much and is more physically demanding than sustaining an even keel with the opponent. This will be especially true against some of the elite teams in the league.
I too would rather see Finley and Bonner play at intervals instead of the same time to at least provide the team with an extra decent defender.
Also, this team has plenty of perimeter scorers and... now... at least 4 players that can score on penetration. What it lacks this early in the season is the development of another consistent post scorer other than Duncan. If this isn't improved upon...we are basically looking at the same team we had last year but with different personnel.
Your observation is right on the money.
Isn't it hard to characterize Bonner and Finley as "lights out shooters?" Finley is a streak shooter, a volume shooter, not a precision spot-up shooter ala Steve Kerr.
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