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I don't know that I oppose toll roads, I can honestly say I don't know much about it, but it seems these toll road proponents seem to go about it all the wrong way.
If the people that sold Obama sold toll roads we'd all be driving on them right now.
(This should probably be in the political forum, but screw it, people need to know what is coming)
Toll roads are not just an issue for the 281 crowd any more....toll roads coming to YOUR neighborhood!
(San Antonio, TX, December 3, 2009)
While San Antonians were enjoying turkey and counting their blessings this Thanksgiving, their politicians were scurrying to load-up the Metropolitan Planning Organization’s (MPO) long-range plan with no less than 37 toll projects, with 18 of them slated to come under foreign control using controversial private toll contracts called Comprehensive Development Agreements (or CDAs). http://www.texasturf.org/
A sample list of toll projects on the docket:
Hwy 90 (from 410 to 211)
I-10 (from 410 to county line)
Loop 1604 (just about the entire loop, not just the north half)
281 (from 1604 to Comal County line)
I-37 (from 410 south to Atascosa County line)
Bandera Rd (from 410 to1604 appears despite amendment to remove it)
interchange at I-10 & 1604
interchange at 281 & 1604 (northbound ramps)
interchange at 1604 & 151
interchange at 1604 & 90
interchange at 1604 & 1-35
interchange at I-35 & 410
Kelly Pkwy/Spur 371 (US 90 to SH 16)
ALL of I-35 (from Atascosa to Comal County line)
Grassroots groups like TURF ( http://www.texasturf.org/) have fought and defeated CDAs during a special called session of the Texas legislature in July,
yet the MPO plugged these now illegal contracts into its plan anyway, apparently following TxDOT’s playbook of using it as a means to get CDAs
re-authorized over the LOUD OPPOSITION of Texans in the next legislative session in 2011.
TURF is urging concerned citizens to demand the MPO:
1) REMOVE toll roads and CDAs from its plans.
2) Use traditional gas tax funding NOT privatizing and tolling Texas roads as its source of funding for these projects.
3) NOT VOTE for ANY plan with toll projects and CDAs in it.
As an example of just what a taxpayer disaster it is to hand control of our public roads to foreign toll operators, Canadian drivers on a road operated by Spain-based Cintra (who has won three Texas contracts already), received their first bill totaling thousands of dollars in fines years after they supposedly took the tollway. The government has no power to step-in and protect motorists from runaway taxation nor disputed toll fines. A recent article in the Toronto Star chronicles the nightmare: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/fixe...407-bills?bn=1
Here's some of the anti-taxpayer provisions involved in CDA sweetheart deals:
- In Texas, they can last up to 52 years
- Contracts are kept secret from the public until AFTER they're signed
- Charge oppressively high toll rates, like 75 cents PER MILE (like the deals in DFW) which on average will mean $3,000 a year in new taxes on driving
-Grant foreign companies the right to levy taxes, the power to take away drivers licenses or car/license plate registration
-Removes rights of due process for toll violations and fines
-Non-compete agreements that guarantee congestion on the free routes
-Guaranteed annual profits (so they can raise the toll rates to whatever price needed so they always get their guaranteed level of profit)
-Massive taxpayer subsidies (so it's a double and even triple tax scenario) yet all the profits leave Texas
-Slower speed limits on free routes and higher speed limits on the tollways to drive more traffic to the toll roads
“We’ve been warning San Antonians for years that Rick Perry has made his toll tax policy so expansive, they won’t be able to escape it. I haven’t met a single Texan outside the Capitol that thinks it’s a good idea to cede control of our Texas roads to foreign companies,” observes Terri Hall, Founder/Director of TURF.
For the first time, we see the top-end price for toll roads....up to 75 cents per mile as authorized by TXDOT. Think about that. 75 cents per mile paid to a foreign company who will manage our highway system! Total corruption using no-bid contracts.
Support Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Democrat Bill White or whomever runs against Rick Perry.
I don't know that I oppose toll roads, I can honestly say I don't know much about it, but it seems these toll road proponents seem to go about it all the wrong way.
If the people that sold Obama sold toll roads we'd all be driving on them right now.
Toll roads are a must for big cities. Dallas road systems with tolls >>>>>>>>>> SA.
I wouldn't object to toll roads if they were built with bonds, the tolls paid off the bonds, and then they were free.
That isn't the case, though. These foreign companies OWN the ing roads, which I find to be an abomination. In addition, to make money, they will take care of them, and we won't get any joy from the state to enforce maintenance, since we don't OWN THE ING ROADS. Our great to the Nth grandchildren will have to pay to drive on roads they should own.
Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.
The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. ing absurd.
BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).
We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.
And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell...
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 12-04-2009 at 12:26 AM.
I'll just drive my solar powered bike then...
revenue raising
hmmm I don't think it will affect my drive to school considering I drive from Schertz. Ive never really had any traffic problems going on 1604 east or west.
seems to me the only highway sections not mentioned are 281 from 410 to 1604 and 410 E until it merges with I-35.
Seems a bit sensationalistic to me........going from none to 14 in a heartbeat......
what is the time frame supposed to be? I didnt see any in the article.
It is a bit much, really our traffic is not that bad to warrant these many tolls. But they probably don't care and just want the money .
yeah......I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the 'article' is bunk.
Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.
The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. ing absurd.
BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).
We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.
And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell...
No, we need roads.
The solution to the oil problem isn't to stop using vehicles.
The solution is to find another power source.
best bet, invest in a horse
I used 130 and 45 toll roads to get down to SA yesterday and I can see why they are toll roads since they built so far ahead of any development that would justify them (and it was a godsend during rush hour), but this list in the OP makes no sense. I'm going to call BS until corroborated.
There were transportation and roads before gasoline enginesToll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.
The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. ing absurd.
BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).
We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.
And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell...
We will switch to electric cars for people, stream/electric trains for freight, nuclear for container ships, and liquid rocket fuel or unconventional gasses/liquids for aircraft.
As a matter of fact, if anyone should be worried it is the airline industry, where alternatives are very limited due to space/weight/efficiency.
hmm, looks like tolls the entire way between my house and my work.
Guess I'll drive the whole way thru neighborhoods then, waste more gas and piss people off in neighborhoods with the increased traffic thru neighborhoods.
edit: didn't see blake and Chump's BS calls at first. Hopefully they are right.
More moronic government at work....
Haven't you heard? The WORLD is ending in 2012. Just in time to replenish fossil fuel for the next group that happens to emerge from it all.Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.
The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. ing absurd.
BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).
We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.
And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell...
awesome news.
toll the sprawlers.
doubtful that any of the north of 410, north of 90 proposals will be passed. if you don't like it, trade in your mcmansion and move back into san antonio.
I hate how they have most of the tollroads on the northside were majority of tax payers in san antonio are but they dont put them on the other side of towns where they pay less taxes then us..traffic will be a night mare e ally me traveling from 1604 to 281 for work its already a 25 minute drive going to work at 70 mph I would have to leave around a hour early now
but i do wish they were texan owned
well thats a horrible generalization.
besides, any of your higher property taxes are to keep your kids in bigger schools. they have nothing to due with the cluster all the sprawl created on what used to be farm roads less than 20 years ago.
Toll roads are a scam.
i like how people that are for toll roads, were also supporters of the invasion of iraq
i dont know what it is but its beyond belief fact or fictions why WASP neocons love tollroads so much
i'm neither a wasp, neocon, or supporter of the invasion of iraq.
very much the opposite.
i support toll roads for a few reasons:
- i absolutely hate suburban sprawl.
- money that could be used for roads in the city gets allocated so that a select few in the burbs can drive in faster. thats just bull . make the latte sippers pay for their own damn roads.
- toll roads encourage public transit.
this list looks like its just trying to get tea party types in arms, it would be like making commerece a toll road, so i don't buy it, but i love the idea of toll roads in general...
me being against them would be like a rabid non-smoker being against a raise in the cigarette tax, doesn't affect them, so why worry?
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